Goodell Drops The Hammer On Saints

[superman7515]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/03/21/sean.payton.suspended.bounties.ap/index.html#ixzz1pm9FaQg6


NEW YORK (AP) -- The NFL handed down sweeping and unprecedented punishment Wednesday for bounties paid out on big hits, suspending New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton without pay for next season and indefinitely banning the team's former defensive coordinator, Gregg Williams, who now works for the St. Louis Rams.

Payton is the first head coach suspended by the league for any reason. He is accused of trying to cover up a system of extra cash payouts that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell called "particularly unusual and egregious" and "totally unacceptable."

[asumike83]

Good. Dirtiest team in the NFL, they've been taking cheap shots for years. Now it all makes sense.

[dbackjon]

Good - they need to award Drew Brees to the Cardinals, since the hit on Warner is what caused him to retire.

[asumike83]

Good - they need to award Drew Brees to the Cardinals, since the hit on Warner is what caused him to retire.

I'm interested to see what Warner, Favre, Rodgers and Cam Newton (the QB's specifically mentioned as having a bounty on them) have to say about all this.

Payton's reputation is damaged for good. First the Vicodin incident and now this. He's taken a feel good story about New Orleans and scummed it up as much as possible. Real nice work.

[GeauxLions94]

Good - they need to award Drew Brees to the Cardinals, since the hit on Warner is what caused him to retire.

Not according to Kurt ...


Kurt Warner, speaking Friday on Sports 620 KTAR, used the word "disappointing" to describe allegations that the New Orleans Saints organized bounties for knockout hits on opposing players.

But the former Arizona Cardinals quarterback said he wasn't surprised. He also said the hit Saints defensive end Bobby McCray delivered to knock Warner out of a playoff game at New Orleans two years ago was legal, and had nothing to do with Warner's decision to retire.

"To think that guys didn't think, 'Hey, we'd love to knock Kurt out or we'd love to knock Brett Favre out, or Drew Brees -- or whoever it might be -- I think that's part of the game and I think that's part of the mindset," Warner said.

Warner described McCray's blindside block during an interception return as a "nice exclamation point" on Warner's career, and one that left him sore for a couple of weeks. But Warner also said his decision to retire had been in the works for some time.

Warner: Saints hit legal, not career-ending (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/59989/warner-saints-hit-legal-not-career-ending)

[dbackjon]

Not according to Kurt ...



Warner: Saints hit legal, not career-ending (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/59989/warner-saints-hit-legal-not-career-ending)


he has said that, but the look on Brenda's face tell you everything. Kurt is too nice to accuse the Saints of that, but the fact remains, that hit caused him to retire.

[Seawolf97]

Hope neither of these guys never return to football at any level.

[ngineer]

Wow. A Commissioner with balls. Selig take note.

[Hammerhead]

Their illegal hits on Brett Favre made him retire the 2nd time until Brad Childress sent players down to Mississippi to beg Favre to come back for another year when the other QBs in training camp were no good.


Good - they need to award Drew Brees to the Cardinals, since the hit on Warner is what caused him to retire.

[PaladinFan]

Hard to believe the punishments were that severe. I'm sure Jonathan Vilma's skin is crawling right now. We aren't done yet.

[Dane96]

My guess- the players will claim that they got caught up in the culture and they didn't realize it was wrong. The NFLPA and their lawyers are probably presenting that right now, which is why Goodell hasn't taken action and is "negotiating" the discipline rather than doling it out. As sad as it is, it is different to ORDER the action, rather than actually doing it. (Sad...but it was the same argument used 60+ years ago in some country in Europe).

I am sure the players will get some games--maybe 4-6--but the fine will likely be huge.

Whereas, the staff not only ordered the hits and supported it financially when they were in a position of power and custody of the league image and its premier product (the players who suit up)...they also circumvented two rules (no bounties for hits and the salary cap) with this program.

I expect a different sort of discipline for the players because of this.

I hope Gregg Williams is done for his role...since it followed him to at least three stops; that's a serial actor right there.

[darell1976]

Suspending the coach for a full season...hmmm how come they didn't suspend Bill Belichik for "spygate"? They let the Patriots off the hook with a slap on the wrist but yet they drop the hammer on the Saints.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Another example of East Coast bias...;)

[darell1976]

Another example of East Coast bias...;)

Simple really: Bounties "act of hurting a player to win a game" = cheating
Spying "an act to win a game" = cheating
Fine for spying: http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/staff/posts/2310-the-patriots-penalty-for-spy-gate


The NFL says it has fined Bill Belichick the NFL maximum of $500,000, the Patriots $250,000 and ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice (if it reaches the playoffs) because New England spied on the Jets defensive signals. If the Patriots don't make the playoffs they have to give up second- and third-round picks in April.

Penality for bounties: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/new-orleans-saints-sean-payton-suspended-bounties_n_1372060.html


The New Orleans Saints' crush-for-cash bounty system already cost them head coach Sean Payton for all of next season and general manager Mickey Loomis for half of it, plus two second-round draft picks and a $500,000 fine.

No suspension for Belichick but suspension for Payton. Sad!!

[Dane96]

Suspending the coach for a full season...hmmm how come they didn't suspend Bill Belichik for "spygate"? They let the Patriots off the hook with a slap on the wrist but yet they drop the hammer on the Saints.

Seriously...you must be kidding. Note: I HATE THE PATRIOTS...HATE SPYGATE...HATE NEW ENGLAND SPORTS FANS. That said, think this through:

1. An act against league rules that is innocuous to the players health and legal ramifications, though still illegal...and a huge fine for the coaching staff to say to the rest of the league..."DONT DO THIS AGAIN."; or

2. An act against league rules that is founded on the deliberate and calculated intent, ie. pre-mediated, to injure, maim and possibly critically injure a player. Such act could leave a player permanently disfigured, scarred, handicapped, paralyzed...or dead. Such act could leave a player without a career. One incident, one play, one moment could leave a league bankrupt in the public relations / fan support category, and severely impact all parties. This penalty tells the league, "We shouldnt have to say DONT DO THIS AGAIN because of the reality of what could occur, but know if you do...your days in football are NUMBERED." And yes, Gregg Williams doing this at three stops deserves to be gone.

First act, is ****...but it doesn't rise to a level of liability the league or team would occur if the worst happened...but moreover isn't an action that could lead to criminal charges (see Marty McSorely-Donald Brashear incident) if followed through on.

Finally, the parties of the second action were repeatedly told not to break the rules, even up to the year preceeding the last season, yet they ignored the league edict.

Do I really need to go on to explain why ACT 1 is nowhere near as serious as ACT 2 as it relates to the players health, the league image or the liability of the league, team and players?

The other thing is this: this was doled out after meeting with the Payton. My guess, Payton realized that he had to be upfront in the meetings or risk a death penalty such as Williams received (correctly, since his disgusting plan followed him through three known jobs). He probably admitted he knew of the bounty program and while he may not have condoned it, he never stopped it. He is the CEO of Operations for that team...that is essentially what a HEAD COACH is. It's his job to control what goes on when the game is being played. He failed in his duty.

Remember folks...if one guy got f'd up and it was attributed to this scheme, criminal penalties absolutely would have been pursued.

[asumike83]

Suspending the coach for a full season...hmmm how come they didn't suspend Bill Belichik for "spygate"? They let the Patriots off the hook with a slap on the wrist but yet they drop the hammer on the Saints.

Not to sound like I'm defending Belichick because I can't stand him, but it wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist. He got fined half a million, the most a coach has ever been fined and the max allowed by the league, and the Patriots lost a 1st round pick. Both cases were dirty but I think the Saints/Payton deserved more punishment. Belichick was cheating but at least he was not trying to end anyone's career.

[Dane96]

Bingo. I gave the lawyer answer...you said it succintly.

[Side Judge]

As a mod I support the bans...

[PhoenixSupreme]

This would probably explain why, when I was playing a Madden playoff game against the Saints, DeSean Jackson got injured on the first drive of the game and couldn't return, and I ended up losing the game

[Cleets]

Suspending the coach for a full season...hmmm how come they didn't suspend Bill Belichik for "spygate"? They let the Patriots off the hook with a slap on the wrist but yet they drop the hammer on the Saints.

Do you understand all of the circumstances surrounding spygate..?
what exactly was happening and all that..?

sincere question

There's a lot of things people do not understand about EXACTLY what was happening there

[TheRevSFA]

This would probably explain why, when I was playing a Madden playoff game against the Saints, DeSean Jackson got injured on the first drive of the game and couldn't return, and I ended up losing the game

I had the same thing happen!

[darell1976]

Do you understand all of the circumstances surrounding spygate..?
what exactly was happening and all that..?

sincere question

There's a lot of things people do not understand about EXACTLY what was happening there

I understand Belechick spied on a bunch of teams but got caught against the Jets so the NFL laid down the law on that one game. Did NE forfeit their win over NY..no was Belechick suspended nope.

[TheRevSFA]

Difference between Belichik and Payton? Belichik wasn't out to injure people or possibly end their careers. Payton was.

[GeauxLions94]

Not to sound like I'm defending Belichick because I can't stand him, but it wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist. He got fined half a million, the most a coach has ever been fined and the max allowed by the league, and the Patriots lost a 1st round pick. Both cases were dirty but I think the Saints/Payton deserved more punishment. Belichick was cheating but at least he was not trying to end anyone's career.

In a way, you can say that Payton just got fined nearly $8 million since he's being suspended without pay ... agree with you on Saints deserving more punishment, but a year for Payton is excessive.

[poly51]

I agree with the penalties except that the draft choices lost should have been 1st round picks.

[asumike83]

In a way, you can say that Payton just got fined nearly $8 million since he's being suspended without pay ... agree with you on Saints deserving more punishment, but a year for Payton is excessive.

He had to make an example of them. With all the emphasis on player safety, there was no other choice. Rewarding players for injuring opponents is bad enough, but when it goes on for several years and you lie to your boss about it, then flub a cover-up... the hammer has to drop.

[darell1976]

Difference between Belichik and Payton? Belichik wasn't out to injure people or possibly end their careers. Payton was.

Maybe to opposing coaches he was.:D

[bluehenbillk]

so what happens to the other umpteen teams in the league that do the same exact thing as the Saints but didn't get ratted out by one of their ~cough Jeremy Shockey~ players?

[Cleets]

I understand Belechick spied on a bunch of teams but got caught against the Jets so the NFL laid down the law on that one game. Did NE forfeit their win over NY..no was Belechick suspended nope.

100% of the footage was taken during the authorized period for competitive observation - this has been confirmed
The footage in question was just taken "outside" of the Press and viewers area set aside by the league
The patriots were not filming anything that any other team did not also have access to
They were filming from the wrong area

Point: From where they filmed you could see both the offensive coordinator and the Play being run...
This was deemed against league rules in 2002
All teams had to move inside a specific area at the 50 yard line about 25 rows up

You realize now all teams simply use two camera men now
One to film the coordinators and one to film the play
The patriots were simply accomplishing that with one guy - and were fined and penalized because they LIED about doing it and concealed it from the league for basically 7 years
That's why they were fined and penalized

Not for any other reason - Lying and concealing information - that was the issue

[asumike83]

so what happens to the other umpteen teams in the league that do the same exact thing as the Saints but didn't get ratted out by one of their ~cough Jeremy Shockey~ players?

They see what happened to Payton and cut that sh** out. At least, that is the plan I'm sure.

Warren Sapp can point to a 'snitch' all he wants but if it was him getting carted off the field after some scumbag dove at his knees for a thousand bucks, you can bet his tune would be a lot different. I understand the camaraderie in the locker room and a code of silence, but attempting to take away someone's livelihood and being rewarded for it is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. I don't always agree with Goodell flexing his muscles but in this case, it is warranted.

[TheRevSFA]

They see what happened to Payton and cut that sh** out. At least, that is the plan I'm sure.

Warren Sapp can point to a 'snitch' all he wants but if it was him getting carted off the field after some scumbag dove at his knees for a thousand bucks, you can bet his tune would be a lot different. I understand the camaraderie in the locker room and a code of silence, but attempting to take away someone's livelihood and being rewarded for it is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. I don't always agree with Goodell flexing his muscles but in this case, it is warranted.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to asumike83 again.

[Dane96]

I am not believing it was Shockey. No confirmed sources. I am calling bull****. Either way, it's a whistleblower on a crime called "battery w/ intent to injure"...not a snitch.

[ngineer]

Suspending the coach for a full season...hmmm how come they didn't suspend Bill Belichik for "spygate"? They let the Patriots off the hook with a slap on the wrist but yet they drop the hammer on the Saints.

Completely incomparable. What was being done was akin to mob hits on people. While Belichik's 'gate' dealt with unethical behavior, it wasn't criminal nor was it INTENDED to hurt people and end their careers.

[GeauxLions94]

I agree with the penalties except that the draft choices lost should have been 1st round picks.

Saints don't have first-round pick in 2012 to start off with (traded pick last year to get Mark Ingram) ... not sure about 2013, though the second-round pick was probably to stay consistent (my opinion).


He had to make an example of them. With all the emphasis on player safety, there was no other choice. Rewarding players for injuring opponents is bad enough, but when it goes on for several years and you lie to your boss about it, then flub a cover-up... the hammer has to drop.

Agreed, the hammer had to drop for lying to the Commish, Tom Benson (Saints owner) and the lengthy cover up. The question is who will serve as interim coach now that Payton will be gone April 1. Joe Vitt (LB coach) was supposed to be acting head coach if Payton were to be suspended for a certain amount of games, but Vitt is out first 6 games ... that leaves Pete Carmichael (who was OC and called plays with Payton was hurt last year) or new DC Steve Spagnuolo, who came from St. Louis and replaced Gregg Williams.

Will be interesting to see who handles GM duties while Mickey Loomis is out first 8 games. Big thing now before Payton and Loomis are gone is to sign Drew Brees to contract extension.