2012 Schedules Mix-n-Match

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here's what I have for unconfirmed open OOC dates available for games for ALL FCS schools as of this point:

**Alabama State (1): 9/1
Arkansas-Pine Bluff (1): 9/1, 10/13
Austin Peay (1): 10/20, 11/3
* Bethune-Cookman (1): 9/1
Central Arkansas (1): 9/15, 11/10
Davidson (1): 9/8, 9/15, 10/6, 10/13, 10/20, 11/10
Dayton (1): 9/15, 9/22, 10/6, 10/20, 11/17
Fordham (1): 10/13, 10/20
Gardner-Webb (2): 9/22, 9/29, 10/13
Grambling State (1): 9/15, 9/22, 10/6, 10/20
Hampton (2): 9/1, 9/22, 10/6, 10/27, 11/17
Jacksonville (1): 9/15, 9/22, 10/13, 10/27, 11/10
Morgan State (1): 9/1, 9/22, 9/29, 10/6, 11/17
North Carolina A&T (2): 9/8, 9/15, 9/22, 9/29
North Dakota State (1): 9/15, 9/22
Northern Iowa (1): 9/8, 10/6
Prairie View A&M (1): 9/22, 10/6, 10/13, 11/3
Robert Morris (1): 9/15, 9/22
Sacred Heart (1): 9/1, 9/8
Southeast Missouri State (1): 9/8, 10/6
Southern Utah (1): 9/15, 11/17
Tennessee Tech (2): 9/1, 9/8, 10/13

* Bethune-Cookman's final game will be on 9/1 in the MEAC/SWAC challenge against a SWAC team.

** Alabama State was originally slated to be in the MEAC/SWAC challenge, but apparently has declined so they can schedule an FBS opponent (who is undetermined at this point). If they don't go, the only other SWAC team with a 9/1 open date is Arkansas-Pine Bluff

[UAalum72]

Sacred Heart still has not announced, will have one more game on either 9/1 or 9/8

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thanks UAalum72, I fixed it.

[carney2]

Some of these show 6 open dates. That cannot be. Oh well, some schools don't release their schedules until very late.

Not to change the subject, but does anyone remember why Davidson College left the Patriot League after only a year or two of membership? It couldn't have been to save football travel costs. In 2011 they made the following road trips

Washington, DC 400 mi.
Jacksonville, FL 400 mi.
Dayton, OH 450 mi.
Indianapolis, IN 550 mi.
San Diego, CA 2,500 mi.

Exactly how does this make sense?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Some of these show 6 open dates. That cannot be. Oh well, some schools don't release their schedules until very late.

Not to change the subject, but does anyone remember why Davidson College left the Patriot League after only a year or two of membership? It couldn't have been to save football travel costs. In 2011 they made the following road trips

Washington, DC 400 mi.
Jacksonville, FL 400 mi.
Dayton, OH 450 mi.
Indianapolis, IN 550 mi.
San Diego, CA 2,500 mi.

Exactly how does this make sense?

Just to explain, the extra open dates include conference and non-conference dates. Davidson has 4 conference dates, 1 OOC, and one bye in those six dates.

Your other question I cannot answer. Unless the president of Davidson is using his extra NetJet share for the football team.

[hebmskebm]

Some of these show 6 open dates. That cannot be. Oh well, some schools don't release their schedules until very late.

Not to change the subject, but does anyone remember why Davidson College left the Patriot League after only a year or two of membership? It couldn't have been to save football travel costs. In 2011 they made the following road trips

Washington, DC 400 mi.
Jacksonville, FL 400 mi.
Dayton, OH 450 mi.
Indianapolis, IN 550 mi.
San Diego, CA 2,500 mi.

Exactly how does this make sense?

Because flying around the country in the Pioneer League is still a heck of a lot cheaper than offering serious athletic aid in the Patriot or SoCon?

[carney2]

Because flying around the country in the Pioneer League is still a heck of a lot cheaper than offering serious athletic aid in the Patriot or SoCon?

Possibly, but I'd need to have it explained. Up until a very few weeks ago, The Patriot League (not the SoCon) was giving only need based aid to football players. There may be differences between need based in the Patriot League and need based in the Pioneer Football League (that would be part of the explanation, I suppose), but need based, to some extent at least, is need based. Perhaps Davidson felt they could not compete with the Lehighs, Holy Crosses and Colgates. Perhaps they did not want to get involved in equivalency wars. In any event, there is no obvious logic that I can see for them leaving the Patriot League to end up in their current situation.

[nwFL Griz]

Here's what I have for unconfirmed open OOC dates available for games for ALL FCS schools as of this point:

**Alabama State (1): 9/1, 9/15, 9/22, 9/29, 10/20, 11/3
Arkansas-Pine Bluff (1): 9/1, 9/15, 9/22, 10/13, 11/10, 11/17
Austin Peay (1): 10/20, 11/3
* Bethune-Cookman (1): 9/1
Central Arkansas (1): 9/15, 11/10
Davidson (1): 9/8, 9/15, 10/6, 10/13, 10/20, 11/10
Dayton (1): 9/15, 9/22, 10/6, 10/20, 11/17
Fordham (1): 10/13, 10/20
Gardner-Webb (2): 9/22, 9/29, 10/13
Grambling State (1): 9/1, 9/15, 9/22, 10/6, 10/20, 11/10
Hampton (2): 9/1, 9/22, 10/6, 10/27, 11/17
Jacksonville (1): 9/15, 9/22, 10/13, 10/27, 11/10
Morgan State (1): 9/1, 9/22, 9/29, 10/6, 11/17
North Carolina A&T (2): 9/8, 9/15, 9/22, 9/29
North Dakota State (1): 9/15, 9/22
Northern Iowa (1): 9/8, 10/6
Northern Colorado (2): 9/8, 9/15, 9/29
Prairie View A&M (1): 9/22, 10/6, 10/13, 10/20, 11/3
Sacramento State (1): 9/15, 11/10
Sacred Heart (1): 9/1, 9/8
Savannah State (1): 9/15, 10/6, 10/20, 10/27
Southeast Missouri State (1): 9/8, 10/6
Southern Utah (1): 9/15, 11/17
Tennessee Tech (2): 9/1, 9/8, 10/13
Valparaiso (1): 9/1, 9/29, 10/20, 11/3, 11/10

* Bethune-Cookman's final game will be on 9/1 in the MEAC/SWAC challenge against a SWAC team.

** Alabama State was originally slated to be in the MEAC/SWAC challenge, but apparently has declined so they can schedule an FBS opponent (who is undetermined at this point). If they don't go, the only other SWAC teams with a 9/1 open date are Arkansas-Pine Bluff and Grambling State.

Your are missing some games that would eliminate several teams from this list.

Davidson's final OOC is at Lenoir-Rhyne on 9/8
Dayton's final OOC is Robert Morris on 9/15 or 9/22
Grambling is hosting Virginia University-Lynchburg on 10/20
N. Colo is playing Sac St OOC on 9/15 (Confirmed by UNC)
Savannah St's final OOC is Edward Waters on 10/20
Valparaiso's final OOC is St. Joseph's on 8/30

it is rumored that GWU is going to be at Pitt on 9/22

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Your are missing some games that would eliminate several teams from this list.

Davidson's final OOC is at Lenoir-Rhyne on 9/8
Dayton's final OOC is Robert Morris on 9/15 or 9/22
Grambling is hosting Virginia University-Lynchburg on 10/20
N. Colo is playing Sac St OOC on 9/15 (Confirmed by UNC)
Savannah St's final OOC is Edward Waters on 10/20
Valparaiso's final OOC is St. Joseph's on 8/30

it is rumored that GWU is going to be at Pitt on 9/22

How on earth did you get that schedule before it was announced?

Colorado Mesa? That's a new one.

I'll update my schedule.

[DetroitFlyer]

Possibly, but I'd need to have it explained. Up until a very few weeks ago, The Patriot League (not the SoCon) was giving only need based aid to football players. There may be differences between need based in the Patriot League and need based in the Pioneer Football League (that would be part of the explanation, I suppose), but need based, to some extent at least, is need based. Perhaps Davidson felt they could not compete with the Lehighs, Holy Crosses and Colgates. Perhaps they did not want to get involved in equivalency wars. In any event, there is no obvious logic that I can see for them leaving the Patriot League to end up in their current situation.

PL aid BEFORE going to the non-need based model is still much more expensive than travel. PFL travel squads are limited to 55 players. At the end of the day, the travel costs are peanuts compared to "athletic scholarships", especially when our old friend Title IX is factored in to the equation. I have not looked it up in a long time, but typical PFL football budgets, including the travel are less than $1,000,000 or just slightly above. PL schools today seem to be in the $2,000,000 to $4,000,000range. My memory tells me that Fordham has probably been at about a 55 counter level for years and they had the largest budget. Moving to 60 for them should be no big deal. Maybe I missed it, but how are he PL schools going to deal with the Title IX issues involved with moving to a 60 counter level.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Not to change the subject, but does anyone remember why Davidson College left the Patriot League after only a year or two of membership?

To the best of my recollection, here's what happened. Davidson replaced William & Mary in the the football-only Colonial League, which included Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Holy Cross and Bucknell. William & Mary dropped out over the scholarship issue (though Holy Cross remained):

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/227/wmdrops200.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9830/davidsonjoins400.jpg

In 1988 the Colonial League decided to become an all-sports conference and to rename itself, the Patriot League. Army and Fordham were added. Davidson would remain a football-only member because of its distance from the other schools. The next season, Davidson dropped its football participation becasue of its lack of success against the other schools:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7032/davisonreplaced200.jpg

More drastically, Davidson then dropped its football program to Division III, where it competed as an independent. It competed at that level from 1990-1992. Required by the "Dayton Rule" to move back up, Davidson competed as a 1-AA independent from 1993-2001, when it joined the Pioneer Football League.

[van]

Possibly, but I'd need to have it explained. Up until a very few weeks ago, The Patriot League (not the SoCon) was giving only need based aid to football players. There may be differences between need based in the Patriot League and need based in the Pioneer Football League (that would be part of the explanation, I suppose), but need based, to some extent at least, is need based. Perhaps Davidson felt they could not compete with the Lehighs, Holy Crosses and Colgates. Perhaps they did not want to get involved in equivalency wars. In any event, there is no obvious logic that I can see for them leaving the Patriot League to end up in their current situation.

How could it be less than Hoyas offer?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Your are missing some games that would eliminate several teams from this list.

Davidson's final OOC is at Lenoir-Rhyne on 9/8
Dayton's final OOC is Robert Morris on 9/15 or 9/22
Grambling is hosting Virginia University-Lynchburg on 10/20
N. Colo is playing Sac St OOC on 9/15 (Confirmed by UNC)
Savannah St's final OOC is Edward Waters on 10/20
Valparaiso's final OOC is St. Joseph's on 8/30

it is rumored that GWU is going to be at Pitt on 9/22

I was unable to confirm the VUL/Grambling game and the Lenoir-Rhyne/Davidson game, so I didn't update those yet. But the others I confirmed and added. I also added Robert Morris since they are still unconfirmed as to if/when they play Dayton.

One reason I'm real shaky as to committing to VUL/Grambling is the thought that they might play in the MEAC/SWAC challenge. As for LRU/Davidson, that is almost certainly the deal, but there's just no official confirmation.

For that matter, I have a rumor that Sacred Heart has an opponent for 9/1. But I'm not putting it up until it's confirmed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Are there any FBS teams left for Alabama State to schedule, or are they just blowing smoke? The last two FBS teams with spots to my knowledge were Mizzou and Georgia Tech, and their dance cards are now full.

[blackbeard]

Not announced yet but SHU is playing at Morgan State on 9/1

[MplsBison]

Shoot, well there goes any chance of NDSU playing two NEC teams for easy wins this year. Probably would've been difficult to get Robert Morris to move the game on the 1st to the 22nd anyway.

[MplsBison]

Possibly, but I'd need to have it explained. Up until a very few weeks ago, The Patriot League (not the SoCon) was giving only need based aid to football players. There may be differences between need based in the Patriot League and need based in the Pioneer Football League (that would be part of the explanation, I suppose), but need based, to some extent at least, is need based. Perhaps Davidson felt they could not compete with the Lehighs, Holy Crosses and Colgates. Perhaps they did not want to get involved in equivalency wars. In any event, there is no obvious logic that I can see for them leaving the Patriot League to end up in their current situation.

Pioneer athletic departments don't pay for their football players' school expenses. That's why the NCAA considers them to be zero scholarship equivalency programs, whereas the top Patriot League programs had scholarship equivalencies in the 50's.

Further, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Pioneer schools in general offer very little aid to their students. I would bet most pay the costs of attending schools like Dayton, San Diego, Jacksonville, etc. out of their own pockets, via federal aid (grants and subsidized loans), private loans and private scholarships (money does not come from a school fund or a school endowment).

Patriot League schools, I'm guessing are the opposite - providing millions upon millions every year in institutional aid to their students, probably from large endowments.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Patriot League schools, I'm guessing are the opposite - providing millions upon millions every year in institutional aid to their students, probably from large endowments.

General endowment money does not go to athletic aid at PL schools, although private donations do provide for facilities and athletic expenses. While it might come as a surprise to you, some kids actually want to attend PL schools.

[MplsBison]

General endowment money does not go to athletic aid at PL schools, although private donations do provide for facilities and athletic expenses. While it might come as a surprise to you, some kids actually want to attend PL schools.

I was talking about general students at that point - not athletic aid. As was obvious from the context of the 2nd paragraph.

No way a half billion dollar endowment (that means you can skim $25 million off the top every year of basically free money) does not provide aid to the students who attend the college, especially a college with that small of enrollment.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I was talking about general students at that point - not athletic aid. As was obvious from the context of the 2nd paragraph.

No way a half billion dollar endowment (that means you can skim $25 million off the top every year of basically free money) does not provide aid to the students who attend the college, especially a college with that small of enrollment.

Have you ever been to Lafayette? Seen what the campus looks like? Get a feel for what it is like to study there? It's . . . ummm . . . different . . . from what you might think. More like a close, tight-knit family than a public enterprise. While it's a massive campus and infrastructure for so few students, what goes on in the family, stays in the family. There's no "skimming," I assure you. Practically every living alum has a stake in the place, and they all value it quite a bit.

[DFW HOYA]

No way a half billion dollar endowment (that means you can skim $25 million off the top every year of basically free money) does not provide aid to the students who attend the college, especially a college with that small of enrollment.

It bears repeating that endowment proceeds are not free money, and restricted endowments (funds specifically for faculty chairs, medical or law school giving for universities as opposed to colleges, funds dedicated to buildings, etc.) do not go towards the ability to float better undergraduate financial aid offers.

[Mr. C]

To the best of my recollection, here's what happened. Davidson replaced William & Mary in the the football-only Colonial League, which included Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Holy Cross and Bucknell. William & Mary dropped out over the scholarship issue (though Holy Cross remained):

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/227/wmdrops200.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9830/davidsonjoins400.jpg

In 1988 the Colonial League decided to become an all-sports conference and to rename itself, the Patriot League. Army and Fordham were added. Davidson would remain a football-only member because of its distance from the other schools. The next season, Davidson dropped its football participation becasue of its lack of success against the other schools:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7032/davisonreplaced200.jpg

More drastically, Davidson then dropped its football program to Division III, where it competed as an independent. It competed at that level from 1990-1992. Required by the "Dayton Rule" to move back up, Davidson competed as a 1-AA independent from 1993-2001, when it joined the Pioneer Football League.

Even after returning to the I-AA ranks, Davidson continued to compete against a largely D-III schedule for a long time. I remember covering a Davidson-Bridgewater game in 1993 when Tim Landis was at the helm for the Wildcats. Richardson Stadium was a gorgeous setting. What a backdrop for a football game. Davidson was extremely uncompetitive in the Southern Conference and wanted to put more of its efforts into men's basketball in terms of athletic spending. You also have to remember that nearly everyone on the Wildcat football team has plenty of options in terms of academic aid, much like Ivy League student-athletes do. Unless you are independently wealthy and have Daddy Warbucks to foot your tuition bill, you are going to eligible for plenty of academic scholarship help if you are a good enough student to attend Davidson.

[nwFL Griz]

Are there any FBS teams left for Alabama State to schedule, or are they just blowing smoke? The last two FBS teams with spots to my knowledge were Mizzou and Georgia Tech, and their dance cards are now full.

Well, that depends. Everything hinges on what happens with Temple and the Big East. If the Big East has to stick with 7 teams for this year, then you have 7 teams that need one more game.

Other than that, FIU and Mizzou still need one game each (although Mizzou already has an FCS opponent on the schedule).

[nwFL Griz]

I was unable to confirm the VUL/Grambling game and the Lenoir-Rhyne/Davidson game, so I didn't update those yet. But the others I confirmed and added. I also added Robert Morris since they are still unconfirmed as to if/when they play Dayton.

One reason I'm real shaky as to committing to VUL/Grambling is the thought that they might play in the MEAC/SWAC challenge. As for LRU/Davidson, that is almost certainly the deal, but there's just no official confirmation.

For that matter, I have a rumor that Sacred Heart has an opponent for 9/1. But I'm not putting it up until it's confirmed.

I don't believe it is an option for them to play in the MEAC/SWAC as they are committed to the Port City Classic on Sep 1.

[RichH2]

Recall C that name change was not voluntary. Forced to do so because of conflict with a conference already using Colonial. Imagine what a different landscape we would have today had W&M stayed.

[MplsBison]

It bears repeating that endowment proceeds are not free money, and restricted endowments (funds specifically for faculty chairs, medical or law school giving for universities as opposed to colleges, funds dedicated to buildings, etc.) do not go towards the ability to float better undergraduate financial aid offers.

Yes, of course. I actually was aware of that point, just didn't bring it up.


But unless we're talking about a significant amount of the endowment money being allocated/reserved for purposes other than student aid of any kind (academic, athletic, music, whatever), like 20% or more, the point seems fairly moot when we're talking half billion dollar endowments or more.

Point is that the Patriot schools have a hefty amount of cash to be handing out to students in need of it, where as Pioneer schools simply don't have it.

[DFW HOYA]

FY2012 Endowments by school (in millions)
Davidson 509
Dayton 414
San Diego 326
Mercer 196
Valpo 163
Butler 157
Drake 153
Stetson 143
Campbell 107
Marist 35
Jacksonville 30
Morehead State 18

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just updated the main page on this again. Alcorn State's schedule just ruined a lot of dreams for folks hoping to have an easy fix for 9/1 or 9/15 open dates.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Interesting. Central Arkansas and Grambling share a 9/15 open date. Interesting.

[TTUEagles]

TTU and SEMO need to move their game from 9/22 to 9/8 and that opens up more possibilities for 9/22...

[BEAR]

Interesting. Central Arkansas and Grambling share a 9/15 open date. Interesting.

Grambling at UCA....that would work. xlolx

[TTUEagles]

I posted this on another thread, but, I've heard rumors about Hampton at Tennessee Tech on Aug. 30. I, too, will have to see that officially announced before I believe it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Fordham University (FCS): Fordham is looking to fill an open date for one game for this upcoming 2012 season. The dates that they have available are October 13 or 20. They will be looking for either a home game against a 1-AA or Div. II opponent, or they would be willing to travel to an FBS opponent. If interested or want more information please contact DFO Andrew Warsaw at [email protected]

http://www.footballscoop.com/the-scoop

[tourguide]

Just updated the main page on this again. Alcorn State's schedule just ruined a lot of dreams for folks hoping to have an easy fix for 9/1 or 9/15 open dates.
Alcorns OOC had been filled for awhile since they only have 2 OOC's in SWAC, they just didnt have their conference games filled up. or were people thinking they would schedule a 12th game??

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Alcorns OOC had been filled for awhile since they only have 2 OOC's in SWAC, they just didnt have their conference games filled up. or were people thinking they would schedule a 12th game??

Alcorn ruined some dreams because they filled in some key open dates of conferencemates - Arkansas-PB on 9/15 and Grambling on 9/1.

[tourguide]

Alcorn ruined some dreams because they filled in some key open dates of conferencemates - Arkansas-PB on 9/15 and Grambling on 9/1.

so people thought Alcorn would ignore that they have to play 9 conference games and instead schedule only 8 so they could travel for an OOC? That doesnt make much sense!

edit: oops I see you are not specifically talking about Alcorn, more so Ark PB and Grambling......my bad

[TTUEagles]

-----From footballscoop.com:
"Tennessee Tech (FCS): Tennessee Tech is looking for a home game September 8th, 2012 or October 13th, 2012. Will pay a guarantee or will go home and home with the 2012 game being at home. Please contact associate head coach Billy Taylor at [email protected]."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

-----From footballscoop.com:
"Tennessee Tech (FCS): Tennessee Tech is looking for a home game September 8th, 2012 or October 13th, 2012. Will pay a guarantee or will go home and home with the 2012 game being at home. Please contact associate head coach Billy Taylor at [email protected]."

This would add an awful lot of credence to Tennessee Tech at Hampton on 8/30.

[TTUEagles]

This would add an awful lot of credence to Tennessee Tech at Hampton on 8/30.

Well, the AD told me last year that they are really going to be "emphatic" with getting 6 home games a year (2 home OOC games), instead of 5 home & 5 or 6 road games as in most recent years. The only TTU player that I know now told me that the team was informed of playing Hampton at home to start the year...
TTU plays AT Oregon on Sept. 15 for 1 OOC road game.

[LakesBison]

TTU @ NDSU freakin book it already.

[TTUEagles]

TTU @ NDSU freakin book it already.

As a fan, I'm all for this - "we" need to quit skirting around the "big boys" and see how good (really, how bad) we are...I doubt this will happen unless NDSU pays for travel/lodging expenses. This is the reason TTU didn't travel to a few places last year and ended up with a junk 10-game schedule.

[MplsBison]

As a fan, I'm all for this - "we" need to quit skirting around the "big boys" and see how good (really, how bad) we are...I doubt this will happen unless NDSU pays for travel/lodging expenses. This is the reason TTU did travel to a few places last year and ended up with a junk 10-game schedule.

That's nothing.

NDSU routinely pays NEC teams $150k to come to Fargo. $100k is for travel, hotel, food, etc. (probably even turf shoes, although that's no longer necessary starting in 2012) and the rest is cash. No reason TTU couldn't get the same.

But asking for more than that is ridiculous.

[TTUEagles]

I couldn't imagine TTU asking for more...Somebody e-mail the AD's and get it set up. What's 2 ***-kickings in a row (TTU at Oregon the next week)?

[stevdock]

I couldn't imagine TTU asking for more...Somebody e-mail the AD's and get it set up. What's 2 ***-kickings in a row (TTU at Oregon the next week)?


Well lucky for NDSU, I'm sure TTU would be overlooking the Bison to face off with Oregon ;)

[TTUEagles]

Yes! The juggernaut that is TTU football wouldn't mind rolling into Fargo...But, as I look further (and, again, don't read back in this current thread), doesn't NDSU already have a scheduled game for Sept. 8.? TTU's open dates are Sept. 8 and Oct. 13.

[tourguide]

Yes! The juggernaut that is TTU football wouldn't mind rolling into Fargo...But, as I look further (and, again, don't read back in this current thread), doesn't NDSU already have a scheduled game for Sept. 8.? TTU's open dates are Sept. 8 and Oct. 13.

I think the thought is the game against Southeast could be moved to the 8th and that wold open up the 22nd which is a date NDSU has open

[LakesBison]

yep, move the dates tourguide! how you been buddy! ill be thinking of you from VIP in MPLS tonight !