A10/CAA to I-A?

[Tribefan]

So I'm reading through some message boards on rivals.com and scout.com and I've seen this pop up twice in the past week or so. Apparently there was an article in the Boston Globe a while back in which the CAA commish said the conference would consider moving to I-A status. I can't find the article, but this makes absolutely no sense to me since individual schools move up in classification not entire conferences.

Has anyone else seen anything like this? Thanks.

[OL FU]

So I'm reading through some message boards on rivals.com and scout.com and I've seen this pop up twice in the past week or so. Apparently there was an article in the Boston Globe a while back in which the CAA commish said the conference would consider moving to I-A status. I can't find the article, but this makes absolutely no sense to me since individual schools move up in classification not entire conferences.

Has anyone else seen anything like this? Thanks.

Why couldn't a conference move up? The individual schools would then have to decide to remain or move on.

In 1982, the SoCon reclassified to I-AA.

Not being smart, just asking

[Pard4Life]

Well I hope some teams would leave the CAA when they move to I-A and opt for the Patriot League... i.e. William and Mary, Richmond. Some of those schools are just too small for I-A. Could the Tribe seriously support an I-A program? Their stadium is quite small.

[GannonFan]

I haven't seen anything on that, and certainly nothing would happen for several years (at least 5-10 years) but I could see how you could make an argument that this could happen, depending on what else happens in college athletics in the meantime. There are some schools (UD, JMU, UMass, Towson) that are large enough schools that they could consider moving up (although none of them is in any position right now to do so), and you through nova in there who is a DI basketball power already, and there is certainly room to entertain moving up. As for individual teams moving up versus conferences, that could happen. The problem with teams moving up is where to play - you need to be in a conference unless you are Notre Dame, and they still needed a conference for non-football sports. You can't move up and play in the CUSA or the Sun Belt or the MAC and expect the move to be tremendously positive. There are way too many negative examples and few if any positive examples to support that. And unless the Big East comes calling for somebody, there are no BCS options out there. If you move up as a conference, you avoid the scheduling nightmares other ascendent teams encounter and you have a fighting chance to make it. It think the MAC moved like this after one year of IAA play (I thought they did play IAA for a year - anyone know). Like I said, it's nothing that will happen in the next 10 years so all speculation.

[Saint3333]

If they added a couple of SoCon schools it could definitely make it in the 1-A world 5 years down the road.

[henfan]

Tribefan, I have the article. I'll have to hunt for it.

If I recall correctly, Tom Yeager stated at the time that the CAA would not rule out reclassification. I'll check and report back.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

There were discussions back in the late 90's about UMass joining up with the CAA members that played football in the A10. Umass would have joined the CAA, potentially along with URI, and the league would aim to collectively jump to I-A. With UMass, UDel, and JMU leading the charge, the assumption was that the others would follow.

Umass remained in the A10 and it never came to be.

[rufus]

I think JMU's AD mentioned this possiblity a while back too, but I just can't see it happening without adding other I-AAs for football only.

*CAA schools that can easily make the move*
JMU
Delaware
UMass

*CAA schools that may be able to make the move*
Towson
Old Dominion
Hofstra

*Other I-AA possibilities*
App State
Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Western Kentucky

There just aren't enough big CAA schools to form a I-A league. Even if we add a couple I-AAs from other conferences to get to 8 teams, the Big East will just raid the new conference to shut it down within a couple years. You think they want a new I-A conference in their backyard? Who would replace the teams lost to the Big East (possibly 2-4 teams)? The top CAA teams will come out of the raid with a BCS spot, while the rest will be left without a conference.

[Tribefan]

I would think that if any CAA/A10 were to move up it would be 'Nova considering that they would have the easiest route to a BCS conference.

Seems to me that if you're losing money in I-AA then why move up to I-A and lose even more money? Why go from competing for the playoff bid to competing for some meaningless bowl game? How many bowl tie-ins could a conference like this realistically get? I think the MAC is just now getting their third bowl tie-in.

[Tribefan]

I think JMU's AD mentioned this possiblity a while back too, but I just can't see it happening without adding other I-AAs for football only.

*CAA schools that can easily make the move*
JMU
Delaware
UMass

*CAA schools that may be able to make the move*
Towson
Old Dominion
Hofstra

*Other I-AA possibilities*
App State
Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Western Kentucky

There just aren't enough big CAA schools to form a I-A league. Even if we add a couple I-AAs from other conferences to get to 8 teams, the Big East will just raid the new conference to shut it down within a couple years. You think they want a new I-A conference in their backyard? Who would replace the teams lost to the Big East (possibly 2-4 teams)? The top CAA teams will come out of the raid with a BCS spot, while the rest will be left without a conference.

The Big East has already ruled out taking in any new I-AA to I-A startups. UConn decided to make the move in '97 and Nova opted to not make the move. Theoretically they could still take Nova if they conference split happens (Given the fat new TV contract the BE just signed, the split ain't likely to happen, unfortunately) but I really doubt that they would take another I-AA startup given Mike Tranghese's early assertion.

[rufus]

The Big East has already ruled out taking in any new I-AA to I-A startups.

If the CAA schools are already I-A, then they're not really startups. I think the Big East would sit back for a few years and see which teams do best in I-A (in terms of attendance, facilities, and performance). Once the top CAA teams have proven themselves in I-A, the Big East would probably raid the conference for its best teams. Why risk taking a I-AA startup when you can take your pick of I-As?

[89Hen]

It makes a lot more sense for a conference to move to I-A than a single team. They'd already have 8 guaranteed games (4 home) and the only difficulty is finding a fifth or sixth home game which could be satisfied with a I-AA team. The trick is getting a tie-in to a bowl game. IMO the SWAC should absolutely move to I-A. Why in the world would they want to stay I-AA?

[GaSouthern]

It makes a lot more sense for a conference to move to I-A than a single team. They'd already have 8 guaranteed games (4 home) and the only difficulty is finding a fifth or sixth home game which could be satisfied with a I-AA team. The trick is getting a tie-in to a bowl game. IMO the SWAC should absolutely move to I-A. Why in the world would they want to stay I-AA?

Ahmen!

[Tribefan]

It makes a lot more sense for a conference to move to I-A than a single team. They'd already have 8 guaranteed games (4 home) and the only difficulty is finding a fifth or sixth home game which could be satisfied with a I-AA team. The trick is getting a tie-in to a bowl game. IMO the SWAC should absolutely move to I-A. Why in the world would they want to stay I-AA?

Great point.

[Umass74]

How would we get around the 30,000 seat stadium requirement?

[89Hen]

How would we get around the 30,000 seat stadium requirement?
Delaware - Lincoln Financial
UMass - Gillette
Towson - M&T
UR - Richmond International Raceway... :p

[GaSouthern]

I thought they dropped that rule... just look at FIU (less than 18K stands seats correct?)

[vmisport]

rule was dropped a few years ago

[Lehigh Football Nation]

IMO the SWAC should absolutely move to I-A. Why in the world would they want to stay I-AA?

If they had 5 Gramblings and 5 Southerns, then sure, they should be I-A. Trouble is, they only have 1 Grambling and 1 Southern... and 1 Texas Southern... and 1 Prairie View...

[Sly Fox]

I know a school right in the middle of the CAA footprint who is planning on moving up already and looking for a league.

:D

[MR. CHICKEN]

It makes a lot more sense for a conference to move to I-A than a single team. They'd already have 8 guaranteed games (4 home) and the only difficulty is finding a fifth or sixth home game which could be satisfied with a I-AA team. The trick is getting a tie-in to a bowl game. IMO the SWAC should absolutely move to I-A. Why in the world would they want to stay I-AA?


DIS IS WHY...89..IS UH ELDERAH.........:hurray:........BRAWK!

[blukeys]

I think JMU's AD mentioned this possiblity a while back too, but I just can't see it happening without adding other I-AAs for football only.

*CAA schools that can easily make the move*
JMU
Delaware
UMass

*CAA schools that may be able to make the move*
Towson
Old Dominion
Hofstra

*Other I-AA possibilities*
App State
Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Western Kentucky

There just aren't enough big CAA schools to form a I-A league. Even if we add a couple I-AAs from other conferences to get to 8 teams, the Big East will just raid the new conference to shut it down within a couple years. You think they want a new I-A conference in their backyard? Who would replace the teams lost to the Big East (possibly 2-4 teams)? The top CAA teams will come out of the raid with a BCS spot, while the rest will be left without a conference.


Ever hear of Army and Navy??????? A I-A conference would appeal to both. Seems both of these teams have been establishing relationships with A-10/CAA teams. There could very easily be a bowl tie in and OOC games with the ACC which is already a reality with CAA teams. The Geography definitely works.

Like 89 Hen I see a UD move as being much more likely in a conference situation then alone.

[blukeys]

CAA I-A

Army
Navy
JMU
Delaware
UMass
Towson
Old Dominion
Hofstra
App State
Georgia Southern
William and Mary


Maybes Richmond or Nova

The Big Markets in the Northeast are all served with the exception of Boston. Umass is not a Boston darling. Footprint of the conference matches the ACC for scheduling OOC games.

[DTSpider]

Richmond has a more likely chance of being 1A again than W&M. W&M moved to 1AA right away. Richmond tried to stick it out in 1A land before having the rug pulled out from under them. That being said, it's only remotely possible Richmond will be 1A again in the current setup. However, who knows what the classifications might be called in 50 years.

[tarmac]

scroll down about half way to see a map of what would make a nice new conference.I can see JMU in that mix also.


http://p197.ezboard.com/fmoctalkfrm9.showMessage?topicID=471.topic

[Saint3333]

North:
Army
Hostra
UMass
Navy
Delaware
Towson

South:
JMU
Old Dominion
Richmond
William and Mary
App State
Georgia Southern

Looks like a great conference to me. Travel would be a high especially for GSU, and much higher for ASU as well (compared to the SoCon). Delaware schools and north would be a plane ride for GSU.

[mainejeff]

CAA I-A

Army
Navy
JMU
Delaware
UMass
Towson
Old Dominion
Hofstra
App State
Georgia Southern
William and Mary


Maybes Richmond or Nova

The Big Markets in the Northeast are all served with the exception of Boston. Umass is not a Boston darling. Footprint of the conference matches the ACC for scheduling OOC games.

But what about the rest of the CAA?!?! :(

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[blukeys]

But what about the rest of the CAA?!?! :(

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx


Good point Jeff. In my view this is hypothetical and not a prediction. For the record my view is that UD is COMMITTED to the CAA as is JMU and W&M. While I see JMU, UD and W&M joined at the hip, everyone is looking at the potential changes in football. I have said for some time now that UD would not make any changes without going with the VA. schools. There would have to be some changes in the football landscape for UD choosing to go I-A (A real playoff situation would help!!!) In the end individual schools would make their own decisions but a move as a conference would be in everyone's best interest.

As for the rest of the CAA, who only play basketball, why would they care??????????? This only raises the profile of the conference!!!

[mainejeff]

Good point Jeff. In my view this is hypothetical and not a prediction. For the record my view is that UD is COMMITTED to the CAA as is JMU and W&M. While I see JMU, UD and W&M joined at the hip, everyone is looking at the potential changes in football. I have said for some time now that UD would not make any changes without going with the VA. schools. There would have to be some changes in the football landscape for UD choosing to go I-A (A real playoff situation would help!!!) In the end individual schools would make their own decisions but a move as a conference would be in everyone's best interest.

As for the rest of the CAA, who only play basketball, why would they care??????????? This only raises the profile of the conference!!!

Wait a cotton pickin minute! I thought that Delaware and Drexel were joined at the hip?......or was it Delaware and Hofstra??......or Delaware and Towson???

I'm so confused :confused:........:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

[89Hen]

Wait a cotton pickin minute! I thought that Delaware and Drexel were joined at the hip?......or was it Delaware and Hofstra??......or Delaware and Towson???
Boy is this going to sound egotistical, but I think that's a case of Drexel, Hofstra, and/or Towson wanting to join Delaware at the hip, not the other way around. IMO UD has always taken the approach of wanting to be associated with like kind schools, not one school. At least that's the quote that was used when UNH was announced as a non-conference game a couple of years ago.

It seemed like at the end of the AE days when UD/HU played for two men's bball titles in a row that some kind of rivalry might develop, but it never did. Geography was a major contributing factor as was the fact that HU just didn't seem to have enough of a fan base to get it going. Drexel is a nice bball rival, but without football, they really aren't ever going to develop into anything more. Towson... I've never actually heard them mentioned as a partner/rival of UD, but it's only been two years for them, so that could develop. JMU would be nice, but with them already having UR and W&M... that's doubtful too.

[bluehenbillk]

We've been trying to shake Drexel off our leg for years now, it's like trying to get rid of a STD after seeing a hooker.

[rufus]

North:
Army
Hostra
UMass
Navy
Delaware
Towson

South:
JMU
Old Dominion
Richmond
William and Mary
App State
Georgia Southern

Looks like a great conference to me...
The problem is, I just don't see Richmond or William & Mary ever making the move to I-A. I guess there's a remote possibility that W&M would follow JMU and UD, but I can't see it happening. Also, do you really think Virginia can support 6 I-A teams? 3 definitely, 4 probably, but 6?

I'm also not convinced that Army or Navy would want anything to do with this conference, but I guess it's possible. If we landed Army and Navy, I think the conference would also become attractive to ECU and Marshall.

NORTH:
Army
Hostra
UMass
Navy
Delaware
Towson

SOUTH:
JMU
Marshall
Old Dominion
ECU
App State
Georgia Southern

[bluehenbillk]

I agree but even going further, Towson, Richmond, W&M & GSU couldn't support a 1-A program, simply not enough fans.

[Monarch Nation]

Can y'all wait until we play a few games before moving us up to I-A? xlolx

Seriously, it looks like we made our decision at the right time. Whatever the conference decides, it's good to be a full member of an all-sport conference. Frankly, without CAA affiliation, football at ODU wouldn't have happened.

But knowing how Yeagar tends to work, any big move by the CAA will be studied to death before anything happens.

[rufus]

I agree but even going further, Towson, Richmond, W&M & GSU couldn't support a 1-A program, simply not enough fans.

I assume that you're talking about Georgia State when you say GSU, and yes I agree that Georgia State could never support a I-A football team. In fact, I doubt they could even support a decent I-AA program.

Now Georgia Southern is another story.

I also have my doubts about Towson and to a lesser extent Hofstra, but either could be replaced by Youngstown State in this type of conference.

[89Hen]

I agree but even going further, Towson... couldn't support a 1-A program, simply not enough fans.
I dunno. Towson is a big school that seems to be changing a little. All of the schools that were historically considered commuter schools (Towson, GMU, GSU..) are really trying to lose that stigma. Perhaps its a case of trying to make it happen by just saying its happening, but TU does seem to be growing. Perhaps my perception is off though because of seeing nearly a full house there for the UD game last year.

The area I-A's have been growing steadily. Maryland is supposed to be expanding Byrd Stadium by another 10,000 seats. Navy-Marine Corps has seen improvements and a modest expansion and they've had some pretty good attendance of late. There are a LOT of people around Baltimore that might be interested in seeing Towson football. Maybe.

[bluehenbillk]

I assume that you're talking about Georgia State when you say GSU, and yes I agree that Georgia State could never support a I-A football team. In fact, I doubt they could even support a decent I-AA program.

Now Georgia Southern is another story.


No, I was talking about Georgia Southern, I think what they get now is what they'll get. Statesboro is not a metropolis & everyone down there is either a Bulldog or Yellowjacket fan already, it'd be hard to compete.

[rufus]

Perhaps my perception is off though because of seeing nearly a full house there for the UD game last year.

Towson's average attendance was around 4,000 last year. It might be a big school, but it's a commuter school with a long way to go before they could consider I-A.

[arkstfan]

It seems to me that the whole A10/CAA move en masse misses a vital point. Why would they?

Hop in the wayback machine.

-1978 Division I divided into I-A and I-AA. I-A schools allowed to play up to four non-I-A's per season. To be I-A must sponsor minimum number of sports, could gain exemption by having high enough attendance.
-1982 About 30-40 I-A schools legislated to I-A when standard becomes paid attendance average, less stringent for schools with larger stadiums, exemption for members of a I-A conference or having high home/road average attendance.
-Date escapes me and I don't want to try to look it up, but NCAA no longer allows I-A schools to count ANY wins over I-AA schools for bowl eligibility. Prior to this point only Akron and maybe La.Tech had made the shift from I-AA to I-A.
-1998 NCAA permits I-A schools to count one game against a high scholarship I-AA toward bowl eligibility in a four year period. At this point nine schools (not counting La.Tech or Akron) had made the transition to I-A with three others having already announced their intention shift. Since then only one program that was not a "start from scratch" has shifted to I-A (Troy) the others have been the three Florida programs who announced their I-A intentions at the announcement of the programs being created.
-2005 NCAA permits one high scholie I-AA game to count toward I-A schedule and post-season eligibility requirements. I-A membership rules changed to require a minimum of five countable home games, require 16 sports sponsored, minimum of 200 equivalencies awarded, average at least 76.5 grants awarded in football, average 15,000 paid attendance once every two years instead of 17,000 once every four (for schools with 30,000 seats) or instead of averaging 20,000 home and away once every four years, eliminated exemption for being a member of a I-A conference.

So back in the land rush to I-A a school could throw up some erector set bleachers (or in the case of UCF, UAB, and USF play in large existing facilities) get boosters to pay to average 17,000 once every four years or play a couple big names on the road to get the home/away average or just be a member of a conference that had a majority meeting I-A standards.

The old way required a low capital investment and very low annual investment to go chase large game guarantees. Playing as few as four home games was not unknown. The number of available guarantee games to I-AA's was fairly low and the guarantees well under the market rate of I-A body bag games.

The new way requires a larger annual investment, some level of booster support or adequate scheduling to generate ticket sales. The new way should lead to less discount on game guarantees.

Today a president at a I-AA school has less incentive to agree to an indefinite budget increase for football when the pie-in-the-sky best hope revenues from game guarantees is not going to be much larger than what can be earned in I-AA.

I don't see many university CEO's choosing to shift sub-group unless there is some compelling local reason (ie. three Florida start-ups felt the promise of I-A was essential to obtaining the seed money to start playing football).

[89Hen]

Holy cow! An arkstfan sighting! Where you been?

[rufus]

I think you will actually see an increase in the number of schools moving to I-A in the near future. The top I-AAs in conferences like the CAA are already spending nearly as much money on football as the I-As in conferences like the Sun Belt, MAC, WAC, and CUSA. For a lot of these top I-AAs, it won't break the bank to increase football speanding by 25% to get to the I-A level.

[greenG]

I think you will actually see an increase in the number of schools moving to I-A in the near future. The top I-AAs in conferences like the CAA are already spending nearly as much money on football as the I-As in conferences like the Sun Belt, MAC, WAC, and CUSA. For a lot of these top I-AAs, it won't break the bank to increase football speanding by 25% to get to the I-A level.

If this does happen, please let me know when one of these "top I-AAs" plays in a BCS bowl game.:smiley_wi

[89Hen]

I think you will actually see an increase in the number of schools moving to I-A in the near future. The top I-AAs in conferences like the CAA are already spending nearly as much money on football as the I-As in conferences like the Sun Belt, MAC, WAC, and CUSA. For a lot of these top I-AAs, it won't break the bank to increase football speanding by 25% to get to the I-A level.
I disagree acroos the board on this post. The number going to I-A has already declined over time and will continue to dwindle. Most I-AA's are losing money so a 25% increase in spending is HUGE. Don't forget that teams in the SunBelt, WAC, etc... are LOSING money, not making money.

[GannonFan]

I think you will actually see an increase in the number of schools moving to I-A in the near future. The top I-AAs in conferences like the CAA are already spending nearly as much money on football as the I-As in conferences like the Sun Belt, MAC, WAC, and CUSA. For a lot of these top I-AAs, it won't break the bank to increase football speanding by 25% to get to the I-A level.

To quote the emminently quotable Ricky Watters, "for who, for what?" - why would these schools move up to IA? What is the real benefit? Unless your ultimate goal is a BCS conference, being IA isn't materially any better than being IAA - the profits you could make aren't any different, and in some cases you will lose more money in IA than you do in IAA. Like I said, if you're in a BCS conference, that's an entirely different scenario, and if you think you could get into a BCS conference in a relatively short time (5 years, not 30 years) then a move up to IA could make sense. But if the BCS is not in your future, there's no real reason to move up except for ego or for some currently unforeseen reason. As a UD fan, if the Big East came calling or if moving up resulted in a short term wait to ultimately get into the Big East, I'd probably bite - being in a BCS conference means you can compete for the national title (outside of it, forget it - ask Utah how that went). But being stuck forever in a non-BCS conference would be undesirable - no chance to play for the national title, and now no playoffs as well. I know some people will take the ego-stroking goal of just being able to say that your school is at the same level as a Penn St (well, you aren't since you aren't BCS) but my self-worth is just fine without knowing the team I root for is at so and so level. If the BCS is the end goal, I'd want UD to do it - if it's not possible, IAA is the next best thing and is certainly preferrable to the wastelands of non-BCS IA football.

[rufus]

If this does happen, please let me know when one of these "top I-AAs" plays in a BCS bowl game.:smiley_wi
If Utah can do it, I don't see why a Marshall or Boise State can't do the same one day. The same goes for JMU, Delaware, etc.

[89Hen]

1992 - Arkansas State University, University of Nevada
1994 - University of Louisiana at Monroe
1995 - University of North Texas
1996 - University of Alabama at Birmingham, Boise State University, University of Central Florida
1997 - University of Idaho, Marshall University
1999 - State University of New York at Buffalo, Middle Tennessee State University
2001 - University of Connecticut, University of South Florida, Troy State University

None since 2001 (you can't really count FIU and FAU as they never intended to be I-AA).

[rufus]

If you count UAB and USF, you need to count FAU and FIU.

[GannonFan]

If Utah can do it, I don't see why a Marshall or Boise State can't do the same one day. The same goes for JMU, Delaware, etc.

It almost needed an act of Congress to make the Utah game happen, and the BCS response to that was to create one more BCS bowl so that god-forbid, if it ever happened again, the amount of money that one team would share would be even less (8 teams in the BCS bowls when Utah played, so roughly 1/8 the share - now there are 10 teams and 1/10 the share, assuming the share is actually even to begin with because I thought the teams in the title game get more?). They don't want to share any of the millions they get now, and if they have to, they'll do everything in their power and then some to minimize it as much as possible. And again, Utah could've gone undefeated for the past 5 years in a row and they still wouldn't have a chance to crack the national title game.

[rufus]

I disagree acroos the board on this post. The number going to I-A has already declined over time and will continue to dwindle. Most I-AA's are losing money so a 25% increase in spending is HUGE. Don't forget that teams in the SunBelt, WAC, etc... are LOSING money, not making money.
It's not just about making money -- I see a move to I-A as a break-even scenario financially. Expenses increase, but typically so do revenues. Most teams are no better or worse off in I-A from a financial perspective. To me the biggest advantage of going I-A is an improved regualr season schedule. I look at JMU's schedule this year and how I feel about each game...

Northeastern - don't care
URI - really don't care
Bloomsberg - couldn't care less
W&M - highlight of the season
Delaware - second best game behind W&M

Now let's compare JMU's home schedule to a regional non-BCS schedule (you know, a wasteland team like ECU)...

West Virginia
Virginia
Memphis
Marshall
Tulsa
SMU

Yeah, I'll take home games against Bloomsberg and URI over WVU and Virginia any day.... xidiotx

[dbackjon]

West Virginia
Virginia
Memphis
Marshall
Tulsa
SMU

Yeah, I'll take home games against Bloomsberg and URI over WVU and Virginia any day.... xidiotx

Hell, NAU is already playing Utah and Arizona State, and they don't have to leave I-AA.

And you are SERIOUSLY deluding yourself if you think WVU or UVA would ever, ever travel to JMU.

[89Hen]

If you count UAB and USF, you need to count FAU and FIU.
Take out all four if you like. UAB and USF spent 4-5 years in I-AA, FAU and FIU spent two.

[89Hen]

Now let's compare JMU's home schedule to a regional non-BCS schedule (you know, a wasteland team like ECU)...

West Virginia
Virginia
Memphis
Marshall
Tulsa
SMU
Who are you kidding? What conference would JMU or any other I-AA go to? Your schedule would look more like Temple's...

at Buffalo (Thur.)
LOUISVILLE
at Minnesota
at Western Michigan
at Vanderbilt
KENT STATE
Clemson @Charlotte, NC (Thur.)
at Northern Illinois
BOWLING GREEN
CENTRAL MICHIGAN
at Penn State
at Navy

I guess I am xidiotx because I'd rather have more than four home games.

[dbackjon]

89Hen - Louisville, now in the BCS Big East, wouldn't make the trip, either. Substitute MTSU, then you have a schedule!

[89Hen]

89Hen - Louisville, now in the BCS Big East, wouldn't make the trip, either. Substitute MTSU, then you have a schedule!
This is Temple's actual schedule.

[dbackjon]

This is Temple's actual schedule.

LOL - there is a program to strive to emulate. I bet the deal with Louisville was set long before U of L got into the Big East.

[arkstfan]

Anyone know off the top of their heads how many I-AA programs sponsor only 14 or 15 sports? Or how many award 175 or fewer equivalencies?

How are you going to sell a president or chancellor and then a board that it is in the school's best interest to go I-A?

Back in 1990, Arkansas State did it because #1 we normally played two or three I-A opponents per year. We had to go I-A to keep playing those games and #2 our budget was built on those games and we would have to replace that income. I-A was sold as spend a few bucks now on the stadium, leave annual costs where they are, make a little extra on game guarantees. What happened was that eventually you have to pay competitive salaries, eventually you have to actually evaluate more players than just 150 mile radius, you have to fly to more games, you end up adding a sport for Title IX and then maybe another. You add more scholarships in football instead of trying to play a I-A slate with 60-65 on scholie.

Basically you ratchet up salaries a minimum of $125,000, scholie costs go up around $500,000. The cost of one new sport absent the scholies is maybe $100,000 if you find something more expensive than bowling. So your annual expenditures go up $725,000. That means two large guarantee games to go into the black.

The alternative would be stay I-AA play a single guarantee game and be to the financial good.

I honestly do not believe that a number of current I-A schools would have made the decision to leave I-AA if I-AA were under the rules in place today, because they showed little to no inclination to shift before limits were placed on I-A/I-AA games. Those initial shifts had a domino effect would North Texas have gone I-A if ULM, ArkSt. and La.Tech hadn't already left? Would ULM have gone if La.Tech and ArkSt hadn't left? Would Nevada have moved if not for facing the loss of the rivalry game with UNLV? Would UAB have moved if not for the fact football was forced out of Division III and had a ready made I-A conference waiting? Would USF have even started football without a I-A league home? Would UConn have moved absent the deadline to join the Big East?

The only real incentive now is to jockey for realignment position in basketball. I expect Western Kentucky to go I-A because they have a I-A home waiting and it gives them flexibility to swap to other more hoop oriented leagues if things shake up. Scratch the Gateway members of the MoValley, they aren't likely to find a better hoops home. Maybe someone playing I-AA ball who is in the A10 or CAA for hoops thinks I-A membership can get them into a realigned Big East (assuming it splits) absent that I-A membership means taking membership in a lesser basketball conference (MAC, CUSA, and Sun Belt are all below the A10 and CAA right now). Out of the Southland, how eager do you think the Sun Belt is to take the worst basketball program from the SLC because that's the only school even mentioning I-A.

[arkstfan]

FIU, FAU, and USF announced their I-A intentions when they announced they were adding football. There was no intent to ever be I-AA any longer than required to make the transition.

UAB was playing Division III ball, got forced into I-AA immediately set out for I-A, but the minute they made the transition from non-scholie ball to scholie they made their intention of being I-A in CUSA clear.

[89Hen]

I bet the deal with Louisville was set long before U of L got into the Big East.
Could very well be. There are a couple oddball games every once in a while though. I think FAU or FIU got a BigXII team to come to Miami (they had to have the game at the Dolphins stadium instead of at their home).

I just think the fact that no I-AA's have moved to I-A since 2001 (with the exception of FAU/FIU) shows that it's just not feasible. Without a conference to call home, a I-AA moving up would become road warriors or have crap coming to them.

As GannonFan said, I'd rather have teams from my team's level coming to play with the knowledge that they are competing for a National Championship. Just having games against other low level I-A's in the hopes of making the Toilet Bowl where we could be facing 6-5 Arkansas State is just not appealing to me.

[rufus]

Just having games against other low level I-A's in the hopes of making the Toilet Bowl where we could be facing 6-5 Arkansas State is just not appealing to me.
No offense arkstfan :)

[Tribefan]

FTR, The University of Miami played at Temple last year. And this is almost irrelevant but Miami plays at Louisville this year.

If you could get 9 "eastern" I-AAs to move up to I-A in a single conference then you could theoretically be in business.


Scheduling: That would give you 4 conference home games. With those 4 games then each school could pay a local I-AA to play them at home, and schedule home and home series with some lesser MAC, Sun Belt or CUSA schools. I am sure that this theoretical conference could get some sort of TV deal, although I am not sure how lucrative it would be. The paydays for the I-AA games would be financed by payday games at ACC.Big East or even SEC schools.

Bowls: The Big East is still working a "Big Apple Bowl" for a new stadium proposed for Manhattan. This is years down the road. But it could be a possibility. Other than that, the outlook in this arena is dim considering the MAC is just now getting a third tie-in.

Recruiting: The northeast corridor is already packed considering you've got BC, Syracuse, Army, Connecticut, Buffalo, Rutgers, Temple, Maryland, Pitt, PSU, WVU, Virginia, VT etc... Outside of Pa, Virginia and New Jersey there's not high density of hotbeds and they highly contested as it is. Between Virginia and Pa, a I-A recruit usually garners offers from all or most of the above.

Facilities: Connecticut spent about 50 Million on Rentschler Field, and about as much on a football complex with a non-bubble 120 yard indoor practice facility. This commitment was made with the belief that they would be playing in a conference with Miami and Virginia Tech. Would they have made the same decision if they had known in advance of the raid to come? My guess is.... maybe. They get a share of a BCS payout that is only divided 8 ways as opposed to 12 or 11 ways.

In any event, Connecticut along with Boise State have been pointed out as models for doing it the right way. How many eastern I-AAs are prepared to make 100 Million dollar commitment?

[arkstfan]

Could very well be. There are a couple oddball games every once in a while though. I think FAU or FIU got a BigXII team to come to Miami (they had to have the game at the Dolphins stadium instead of at their home).

I just think the fact that no I-AA's have moved to I-A since 2001 (with the exception of FAU/FIU) shows that it's just not feasible. Without a conference to call home, a I-AA moving up would become road warriors or have crap coming to them.

As GannonFan said, I'd rather have teams from my team's level coming to play with the knowledge that they are competing for a National Championship. Just having games against other low level I-A's in the hopes of making the Toilet Bowl where we could be facing 6-5 Arkansas State is just not appealing to me.

Hey!

Oh that's right you guys still don't want a rematch just yet xlolx

Seriously though I think I-A stabilizes at 120 to 122.

[89Hen]

Oh that's right you guys still don't want a rematch just yet xlolx
No way. One arse whipping was enough for me. :nod:

[rufus]

Anyone know off the top of their heads how many I-AA programs sponsor only 14 or 15 sports? Or how many award 175 or fewer equivalencies?
I honestly don't know how many sports the average I-AA sponsors, but I would guess it's more than 14-15. JMU sponsors 28 sports.


Maybe someone playing I-AA ball who is in the A10 or CAA for hoops thinks I-A membership can get them into a realigned Big East...
Ding, ding, ding!!! We have a winner. If the Big East ever splits, a CAA/A-10 team with solid hoops and decent I-A football would at least be in the running. Imagine if a school like Delaware or JMU could get their basketball program to look a little more like, I don't know, George Mason's. Add I-A football and the Big East is at least going to give you a look.

Also, I don't see why moving to I-A would require JMU or Delaware to change conferences for all sports. What conference wants two current CAA basketball bottom feeders anyway? Football-only membership would benefit all parties.

[89Hen]

No offense arkstfan :)
Correct, I should have mentioned that. They just happened to be the last team with a poor record to appear in that one. Texas State played in it one year at 5-6. : smh :

[89Hen]

Ding, ding, ding!!! We have a winner. If the Big East ever splits...

Also, I don't see why moving to I-A would require JMU or Delaware to change conferences for all sports. What conference wants two current CAA basketball bottom feeders anyway? Football-only membership would benefit all parties.
If the Big East ever spilts? Now you're thowing in other variables.

What current I-A's conferences are taking football only members?

[rufus]

Good question -- do you know of any conferences that are publicly looking for all-sports members? SoCon maybe, but even that's a rumor.

Conferences don't normally go around announcing their plans to the world.

[arkstfan]

In any event, Connecticut along with Boise State have been pointed out as models for doing it the right way. How many eastern I-AAs are prepared to make 100 Million dollar commitment?

Little known fact. Boise State and Troy are the only schools that ever moved from I-AA to I-A based on four year average attendance (of course absent a rule change it will never happen again) rather than one year average in a stadium with 30,000 or more seats.

Boise State had a good sized fan base already in place. Metro population is around a half million, there are no BCS schools in their state, the nearest BCS about 370 miles away and the nearest I-A (Utah) about 330 miles away. I'm not sure there are many schools that can follow the Boise State model of averaging 17,000 paid over four years and have such a virtually uncontested market for I-A ball.

As to UConn again, who can really follow their model? How many schools have a state government willing to pony up $71 million for a state of the art stadium? How many have assurance of full membership in a full equity BCS conference and the large check that comes with that? Unless I'm mistaken the closest public admission I-A to UConn is Rutgers and the only closer I-A's are Army and Boston College. UConn has a state population of 3.5 million to draw a fan base from. Just draw the folks wanting priority for UConn men's or women's basketball tickets and you've got a pretty good sized crowd.

[dbackjon]

As to UConn again, who can really follow their model? How many schools have a state government willing to pony up $71 million for a state of the art stadium? How many have assurance of full membership in a full equity BCS conference and the large check that comes with that? Unless I'm mistaken the closest public admission I-A to UConn is Rutgers and the only closer I-A's are Army and Boston College. UConn has a state population of 3.5 million to draw a fan base from. Just draw the folks wanting priority for UConn men's or women's basketball tickets and you've got a pretty good sized crowd.

And didn't they tie basketball tickets to football tickets? (i.e. if you wanted Bball tickets, you had to buy football tickets)

[arkstfan]

Also, I don't see why moving to I-A would require JMU or Delaware to change conferences for all sports. What conference wants two current CAA basketball bottom feeders anyway? Football-only membership would benefit all parties.

Read the rulebook.

For a conference to be classified as a I-A conference and therefore have a seat on the Management Council and Board of Directors to vote on I-A issues it must have a minimum of eight members who are members of that conference for all sports.

That magic 8 is also required to be able to claim conference champion exemptions or conference contract exemptions to get their 6-6 teams into bowls. So the Big East really could use one additional full member that plays I-A football and all other sports in the Big East or else they live at the mercy of the Big Televen.

[89Hen]

Good question -- do you know of any conferences that are publicly looking for all-sports members? SoCon maybe, but even that's a rumor.

Conferences don't normally go around announcing their plans to the world.
This was fun for a while, but now you're entering a whole new realm of ignorance. :nonono2:

[arkstfan]

And didn't they tie basketball tickets to football tickets? (i.e. if you wanted Bball tickets, you had to buy football tickets)

I've heard that. I know Kentucky for years used football season ticket purchases in factoring in not only who could get season tickets but it was also a factor in who could get one of the 1,250 or so SEC basketball tournament tickets made available to UK fans.

[Tribefan]

And didn't they tie basketball tickets to football tickets? (i.e. if you wanted Bball tickets, you had to buy football tickets)


No. My Dad has season tickets, and he usually has to scrounge to get good hoops tickets.

[Tribefan]

Little known fact. Boise State and Troy are the only schools that ever moved from I-AA to I-A based on four year average attendance (of course absent a rule change it will never happen again) rather than one year average in a stadium with 30,000 or more seats.

Boise State had a good sized fan base already in place. Metro population is around a half million, there are no BCS schools in their state, the nearest BCS about 370 miles away and the nearest I-A (Utah) about 330 miles away. I'm not sure there are many schools that can follow the Boise State model of averaging 17,000 paid over four years and have such a virtually uncontested market for I-A ball.

As to UConn again, who can really follow their model? How many schools have a state government willing to pony up $71 million for a state of the art stadium? How many have assurance of full membership in a full equity BCS conference and the large check that comes with that? Unless I'm mistaken the closest public admission I-A to UConn is Rutgers and the only closer I-A's are Army and Boston College. UConn has a state population of 3.5 million to draw a fan base from. Just draw the folks wanting priority for UConn men's or women's basketball tickets and you've got a pretty good sized crowd.

BC is about an hour and a half away. Syracuse is 3 hours and Rutgers is about the same. Last year UConn had about 32,000 season ticket holders for a 40,000 seat stadium. Season tickets in the blue seats are somehow tied to a point system based on donations.

[Go...gate]

If the MAC or Big West can be a I-A league, so can the A-10/CAA. They are very much a match for these conferences. As for the schools not desirous of moving up, there will still be a lot of schools in I-AA and ample potential conference affiliations or opportunities to start new, albeit smaller, conferences.

[dbackjon]

If the MAC or Big West can be a I-A league, so can the A-10/CAA. They are very much a match for these conferences. As for the schools not desirous of moving up, there will still be a lot of schools in I-AA and ample potential conference affiliations or opportunities to start new, albeit smaller, conferences.

But that still begs the question as to why do it. I see no advantages in the MAC or WAC being I-A leagues versus I-AA.

And the Big West does not sponser football anymore.

[rufus]

And you are SERIOUSLY deluding yourself if you think WVU or UVA would ever, ever travel to JMU.
And why is that? Why would JMU be the lone exception in the vast sea of non-BCS I-As?

Looking at schedules for recent and upcoming seasons, you'll find that a lot of non-BCS schools manage to bring in BCS teams for home games. These other regional I-As manage to do it.

ECU - WVU, Virginia, NC State, UNC, Virginia Tech
Marshall - WVU, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Miami, Virginia Tech
Ohio - Pitt, Minnesota, Iowa St, Northwestern, UConn
Buffalo - Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse
MTSU - Vanderbilt, Virginia, Louisville, Maryland

Ohio, Buffalo, and MTSU manage to bring in these teams with average attendance that is similar to JMU's I-AA attendance. It's just plain ignorant to say that JMU would be the lone exception.

[rufus]

This was fun for a while, but now you're entering a whole new realm of ignorance. :nonono2:
Excuse me? How is it ignorant to point out that conferences don't make their expansion plans public? I was simply pointing out that none of us really have any idea what any conference plans to do (unless we have some insiders on this board).

[Tribefan]

Those aren't home and home series. Most likely they are 2 for 1s.

[rufus]

Those aren't home and home series. Most likely they are 2 for 1s.
Exactly -- most are 2-1s or 3-2s.

[89Hen]

Excuse me? How is it ignorant to point out that conferences don't make their expansion plans public?
Because we've seen time and time and time again that when conferences do expand, they've expanded with all sports members. Even the CAA... Delaware, Hofstra, Towson, Drexel, Northeastern.... all sports. The CAA taking over the A10 football and inheriting some football only members is irrelevant. In 4-5 years we could see the CAA do away with associate members in football.

The SunBelt, the Big East, C-USA.... all sports. At the same time we see the Big East kick out Temple who was football only. To ignore this is ignorant.

There are NO homes for current I-AA's in I-A conferences. The only place that might even consider any additions is the Sun Belt. I don't know about you, but I'd rather the Hens drop football then join the Sun Belt.

[dbackjon]

And why is that? Why would JMU be the lone exception in the vast sea of non-BCS I-As?

Looking at schedules for recent and upcoming seasons, you'll find that a lot of non-BCS schools manage to bring in BCS teams for home games. These other regional I-As manage to do it.

ECU - WVU, Virginia, NC State, UNC, Virginia Tech
Marshall - WVU, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Miami, Virginia Tech
Ohio - Pitt, Minnesota, Iowa St, Northwestern, UConn
Buffalo - Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse
MTSU - Vanderbilt, Virginia, Louisville, Maryland

Ohio, Buffalo, and MTSU manage to bring in these teams with average attendance that is similar to JMU's I-AA attendance. It's just plain ignorant to say that JMU would be the lone exception.

Never ever may have been a stretch, but no time soon - since schedules are usually done years in advance, and JMU is nowhere near ready to make the leap, it would be 2025 if lucky before you saw a big team come your way, unless you are willing to pony up some bigtime guaranteed money, or agree to 3 for 1's.

MTSU's game with Louisville is at a neutral site (Nashville). Vanderbilt was the result of an effective 4 for 1 deal. Maryland and Virginia are 2-1 deals as well, the result of the one-time scramble to fill the 12th games in a hurry.

[rufus]

JMU (or just about any other top I-AA) could be I-A in five years if they really made a push. In fact, it has never really taken any program longer than 5 years to make the transition. MTSU and Buffalo went I-A in 1999 and already have BCS games scheduled. Marshall has only been in I-A for two additional years. And yet it will take JMU 20 years to get BCS teams in Bridgeforth (if we're lucky??). Again, I don't understand what makes JMU uniquely disadvantaged.

[89Hen]

MTSU and Buffalo went I-A in 1999
2005-Buffalo (MAC) 1-10-0
9/1 @ Connecticut (5-6) L 0 38
9/10 @ Syracuse (1-10) L 0 31
9/17 vs. Rutgers (7-5) L 3 17
10/1 @ *Western Michigan (7-4) L 21 31
10/8 vs. *Akron (7-6) L 7 13
10/15 vs. *Bowling Green State (6-5) L 7 27
10/22 @ *Toledo (9-3) L 15 38
10/29 vs. *Ohio (4-7) L 20 34
11/5 @ *Miami (Ohio) (7-4) L 13 54
11/12 @ *Kent (1-10) W 10 6
11/19 vs. *Eastern Michigan (4-7) L 14 38

2004-Buffalo (MAC) 2-9-0
9/2 @ *Eastern Michigan (4-7) L 34 37
9/11 vs. Syracuse (6-6) L 17 37
9/18 @ Nevada (5-7) L 13 38
9/25 @ *Ohio (4-7) L 0 34
10/2 vs. *Central Florida (0-11) W 48 20
10/9 @ *Akron (6-5) L 21 44
10/16 vs. *Miami (Ohio) (8-5) L 7 25
10/23 @ *Marshall (6-6) L 14 48
11/6 vs. *Kent (5-6) L 7 33
11/13 vs. *Central Michigan (4-7) W 36 6
11/20 @ Connecticut (8-4) L 0 29

2003-Buffalo (MAC) 1-11-0
8/30 @ Rutgers (5-7) L 10 24
9/6 @ Iowa (10-3) L 7 56
9/13 vs. Colgate (non-IA) L 15 38
9/20 vs. Connecticut (9-3) L 7 38
9/27 vs. *Akron (7-5) L 21 38
10/4 @ *Central Florida (3-9) L 10 19
10/11 @ *Miami (Ohio) (13-1) L 3 59
10/18 vs. *Marshall (8-4) L 16 26
10/25 vs. *Ohio (2-10) W 26 17
11/1 @ *Toledo (8-4) L 29 56
11/8 vs. *Northern Illinois (10-2) L 9 40
11/22 @ *Kent (5-7) L 24 34

2002-Buffalo (MAC) 1-11-0
8/29 vs. Lehigh (non-IA) L 26 37
9/7 @ Rutgers (1-11) W 34 11
9/14 vs. Connecticut (6-6) L 3 24
9/21 @ Minnesota (8-5) L 17 41
9/28 @ *Ohio (4-8) L 32 34
10/5 vs. *Western Michigan (4-8) L 17 31
10/12 @ *Marshall (11-2) L 21 66
10/19 vs. *Miami (Ohio) (7-5) L 0 49
10/26 vs. *Kent (3-9) L 12 16
11/9 vs. *Central Florida (7-5) L 21 45
11/16 @ *Akron (4-8) L 10 21
11/23 @ *Ball State (6-6) L 21 41

2001-Buffalo (MAC) 3-8-0
8/30 vs. Rutgers (2-9) L 15 31
9/8 @ *Bowling Green State (8-3) L 0 35
9/22 @ Connecticut (2-9) W 37 20
9/29 vs. *Central Michigan (3-8) L 8 16
10/6 @ *Miami (Ohio) (7-5) L 14 31
10/13 vs. *Marshall (11-2) L 14 34
10/20 @ *Kent (6-5) L 13 35
10/27 @ *Eastern Michigan (2-9) L 20 24
11/3 vs. *Ohio (1-10) W 44 0
11/10 @ Army (3-8) W 26 19
11/17 vs. *Akron (4-7) L 14 41

2000-Buffalo (MAC) 2-9-0
9/2 @ Syracuse (6-5) L 7 63
9/9 @ Rutgers (3-8) L 0 59
9/16 vs. Connecticut (3-8) L 21 24
9/23 vs. *Bowling Green State (2-9) W 20 17
9/30 @ *Marshall (8-5) L 14 47
10/7 @ *Ohio (7-4) L 20 42
10/21 vs. *Ball State (5-6) L 35 44
10/28 @ *Northern Illinois (6-5) L 10 73
11/4 vs. *Kent (1-10) W 20 17
11/11 @ *Akron (6-5) L 14 49
11/18 vs. *Miami (Ohio) (6-5) L 16 17

1999-Buffalo (MAC) 0-11-0
9/11 vs. *Akron (7-4) L 10 17
9/18 @ Connecticut (non-IA) L 0 23
9/25 @ *Ohio (5-6) L 6 45
10/2 vs. *Northern Illinois (5-6) L 21 45
10/9 vs. *Central Michigan (4-7) L 19 38
10/16 @ *Western Michigan (7-5) L 17 45
10/23 vs. *Marshall (13-0) L 3 59
10/30 @ *Kent (2-9) L 20 41
11/6 vs. Hofstra (non-IA) L 13 20
11/13 @ Virginia (7-5) L 21 50
11/20 @ *Miami (Ohio) (7-4) L 0 43

SIGN ME UP BABY! :rolleyes:

[dbackjon]

JMU (or just about any other top I-AA) could be I-A in five years if they really made a push. In fact, it has never really taken any program longer than 5 years to make the transition. MTSU and Buffalo went I-A in 1999 and already have BCS games scheduled. Marshall has only been in I-A for two additional years. And yet it will take JMU 20 years to get BCS teams in Bridgeforth (if we're lucky??). Again, I don't understand what makes JMU uniquely disadvantaged.

You really think JMU could go I-A in five years? You got the money to pay for it?

The landscape has changed since 1999 - not the same as when MTSU/Buffalo did it.

[rufus]

You really think JMU could go I-A in five years?
Yep.

[mainejeff]

Yep.

I'd love to see that happen. It would force Delaware to p*ss or get off the pot. They would have to solidly align themselves with Maine, UNH, UMass, URI, and Hofstra or attempt to join JMU in I-A.

[DTSpider]

Yep.

Hold on, where is the money going to come from for JMU football?

I'd think that you'd need to make more improvements to the stadium. Increase funding for womens sports for Title IX.

I doubt that the state is going to pay for any of this. Last I heard, JMU does not have a very good alumni giving rate (in the 20% range). Someone would have to step it up quick.

Once again, JMU could go 1A and be Buffalo or Temple with maybe a $20 million investment. But why do that? What's the benefit?

If you want to try to be in CUSA I'd think that it would take a greater investment. If I'm a school in CUSA like Rice, I'd want to know how adding a school like JMU would increase my revenue. I cannot think of any conferences right now that would benefit by adding JMU.

However, if JMU is willing to take the Tech route (i.e. win at any and all costs both on and off the field) than I guess its possible.

[arkstfan]

Scheduling in I-A in some ways has gotten easier. The schools not in the rich six need at least two home/home deals going to make their schedules work where they often just plugged in a I-AA and a money game. They may still play a I-AA and a money but need those two home/homes.

Schools in the rich six need to buy home games and can only buy one I-AA game. Because of the new rules lower tier I-A's have less flexibility to play money games so many of the mid-pack schools in the rich six cannot afford to shell out $500,000 plus for many home games so they are doing 2 for 1 deals more than ever and even doing home/home deals where the home team agrees to play at neutral/semi-neutral site (ie. Arkansas State playing Oklahoma State in Little Rock, Middle Tennessee playing in Nashville).

But the days of guarantees being the be all end all of the budget are over. A few years ago I know that some of the lower tier I-A schools were getting around 15% of their entire athletic budget from game guarantees. Today I'd guess that there may be a few getting as much as 10% that way but probably no higher than 10%. With only one money road game (Auburn) and the first two games of the year being Army in Jonesboro and Oklahoma State in Little Rock, Arkansas State should make more at the home gate than on the road for probably only the second time since moving to I-A. With SMU and Memphis coming in for 2007 we might make it three in a row.

[GeauxColonels]

2001-Buffalo (MAC) 3-8-0
8/30 vs. Rutgers (2-9) L 15 31
9/8 @ *Bowling Green State (8-3) L 0 35
9/22 @ Connecticut (2-9) W 37 20
9/29 vs. *Central Michigan (3-8) L 8 16
10/6 @ *Miami (Ohio) (7-5) L 14 31
10/13 vs. *Marshall (11-2) L 14 34
10/20 @ *Kent (6-5) L 13 35
10/27 @ *Eastern Michigan (2-9) L 20 24
11/3 vs. *Ohio (1-10) W 44 0
11/10 @ Army (3-8) W 26 19
11/17 vs. *Akron (4-7) L 14 41

I don't know about you, but that 3-8 record looks pretty impressive to me!xlolx

[rufus]

Hold on, where is the money going to come from for JMU football?

I'd think that you'd need to make more improvements to the stadium. Increase funding for womens sports for Title IX.

I doubt that the state is going to pay for any of this. Last I heard, JMU does not have a very good alumni giving rate (in the 20% range). Someone would have to step it up quick.

Once again, JMU could go 1A and be Buffalo or Temple with maybe a $20 million investment. But why do that? What's the benefit?

If you want to try to be in CUSA I'd think that it would take a greater investment. If I'm a school in CUSA like Rice, I'd want to know how adding a school like JMU would increase my revenue. I cannot think of any conferences right now that would benefit by adding JMU.

However, if JMU is willing to take the Tech route (i.e. win at any and all costs both on and off the field) than I guess its possible.

The state has recently granted JMU permission to use tuition revenue for athletic facility construction. Additionally, we would have no probalem raising the money if the admin would offer up a plan. Sell it and we'll buy.

That said, I'm not advocating rushing into I-A solo. A well planned move with at least a small handful of other I-AAs would be the ideal.

[rufus]

However, if JMU is willing to take the Tech route (i.e. win at any and all costs both on and off the field) than I guess its possible.
BTW -- Our president is a Tech alum. ;)

[GannonFan]

I'd love to see that happen. It would force Delaware to p*ss or get off the pot. They would have to solidly align themselves with Maine, UNH, UMass, URI, and Hofstra or attempt to join JMU in I-A.

I seem to think we are already solidly aligned with Hofstra - they are in the CAA for all sports already.

[henfan]

I'd love to see that happen. It would force Delaware to p*ss or get off the pot. They would have to solidly align themselves with Maine, UNH, UMass, URI, and Hofstra or attempt to join JMU in I-A.

Jeff, not sure what you're talking about. Delaware is a school that, as of Sept '07, will be playing all of its sports in one conference, while UMaine's AD is split over 3 separate leagues. Clearly, UD is a school that has made the decision where it wants to be.

UD already solidy aligned itself with the schools of their choosing when they joined the CAA. It was the America East's indecision that all but forced their hand. After rejecting a couple of overtures by the CAA, the UD's president strongly backed a last ditch effort that would have kept his school together with UMaine and UNH playing all sports (except ice hockey, of course) under the AEC umbrella, along with HU, TU, NU, W&M, JMU, ODU and others. In the end though, the AEC allowed its I-AAA representation to dictate rejection of that plan. That decision left UD little choice but to do its business (move to the CAA) and get off the (AEC) pot.

I'm pretty sure that if any single CAA school has a desire to switch conference affiliations, it's unlikely to have much of an impact on what UD decides to do. UD is driven by its own needs, desires and finances. What's right for one conference partner, might not be what's right for UD.

Any school that moves on, the best we can do is wish 'em luck. Our fans probably wouldn't hound the fans of the other school on message boards for years to come, if you know what I mean... and I think you do.

[mainejeff]

Jeff, not sure what you're talking about. Delaware is a school that, as of Sept '07, will be playing all of its sports in one conference, while UMaine's AD is split over 3 separate leagues. Clearly, UD is a school that has made the decision where it wants to be.

UD already solidy aligned itself with the schools of their choosing when they joined the CAA. It was the America East's indecision that all but forced their hand. After rejecting a couple of overtures by the CAA, the UD's president strongly backed a last ditch effort that would have kept his school together with UMaine and UNH playing all sports (except ice hockey, of course) under the AEC umbrella, along with HU, TU, NU, W&M, JMU, ODU and others. In the end though, the AEC allowed its I-AAA representation to dictate rejection of that plan. That decision left UD little choice but to do its business (move to the CAA) and get off the (AEC) pot.

I'm pretty sure that if any single CAA school has a desire to switch conference affiliations, it's unlikely to have much of an impact on what UD decides to do. UD is driven by its own needs, desires and finances. What's right for one conference partner, might not be what's right for UD.

Any school that moves on, the best we can do is wish 'em luck. Our fans probably wouldn't hound the fans of the other school on message boards for years to come, if you know what I mean... and I think you do.


If JMU went I-A and AE Football came to be.........Delaware would feel comfortable in a football set-up with:

Northeastern
Villanova
Towson
Richmond
William & Mary
ODU

????

[*****]

:boring: I-A talk...

[henfan]

If JMU went I-A and AE Football came to be.........Delaware would feel comfortable in a football set-up with:

Northeastern
Villanova
Towson
Richmond
William & Mary
ODU

????

In the words of my pop, "If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, everyday would be like Christmas."

I don't really have much use for hypotheticals but I'd imagine that the line-up you mentioned along with our other all-sport partner Hofstra would be just fine for UD. IMO, it's highly unrealistic to think that JMU would/could reclassify and switch conferences anytime soon. (Where would they play? Aside from increased expenses and a bloated travel budget, what would the Sun Belt or MAC have to offer them?) In the meantime, it's much more likely that other activity will happen to strengthen the CAA, including further CAA expansion, one or more of the existing I-AAA members sponsoring FB, ect.

Stay tuned.

[henfan]

:boring: I-A talk...

Only one thing more boring: unrealistic I-A speculation.
:giveadamn:

[rufus]

:boring: I-A talk...
:thumbsup:

[greenG]

If you move up as a conference, you avoid the scheduling nightmares other ascendent teams encounter and you have a fighting chance to make it. It think the MAC moved like this after one year of IAA play (I thought they did play IAA for a year - anyone know). Like I said, it's nothing that will happen in the next 10 years so all speculation.

The MAC never went through a IAA period. The conference was founded long before the IA/IAA split (1946), all members were established DI programs and remained IA after the split occurred.

[greenG]

If the MAC or Big West can be a I-A league, so can the A-10/CAA. They are very much a match for these conferences. As for the schools not desirous of moving up, there will still be a lot of schools in I-AA and ample potential conference affiliations or opportunities to start new, albeit smaller, conferences.

The Big West doesn't sponsor football so there are no IAA comparisons to be drawn.

[ccd494]

Jeff, not sure what you're talking about. Delaware is a school that, as of Sept '07, will be playing all of its sports in one conference, while UMaine's AD is split over 3 separate leagues. Clearly, UD is a school that has made the decision where it wants to be.


:rolleyes: Yeah, let's spin Maine's third athletic association (Hockey East) as negative. I don't want to be in one of the two premier conferences in the nation. It's a damn shame that Hartford and the SUNYs and UMBC can't save us from that indignity by offering hockey and allowing us to participate in AEast hockey. :rolleyes:

I think you are looking at it backwards. Instead of viewing Maine or UNH or Vermont or Boston U as America East schools that happen to play hockey in Hockey East, you really need to reverse it. They are Hockey East schools that play their other sports in the AEast (+CAA football).

It's not a big deal that Maine associates with schools like Lowell or Merrimack or BC or Providence that don't participate in the AEast. Fans don't say "I don't recognize Providence, I'm not going to the hockey game tonight." It's the opposite. Fans see Binghamton or Hartford or UMBC coming in for basketball and say "I don't recognize Stony Brook, I'm not going to the game tonight" or "William and Mary doesn't mean anything to me, what was the difference between them and William Penn from last year?"

I realize that is a myopic view of the athletic world, assessing importance based upon hockey participation, but it's the reality of Maine's existance. I would hazard a guess that Delaware fans do it too. Football is king at UD, so when a gridiron rival like JMU or William and Mary play the Hens in hoops, there is more casual fan interest because they are recognizable, as contrasted with teams like Georgia State that don't show up on the football radar and so fans that are primarily football fans don't recognize them.

[mainejeff]

:rolleyes: Yeah, let's spin Maine's third athletic association (Hockey East) as negative. I don't want to be in one of the two premier conferences in the nation. It's a damn shame that Hartford and the SUNYs and UMBC can't save us from that indignity by offering hockey and allowing us to participate in AEast hockey. :rolleyes:

I think you are looking at it backwards. Instead of viewing Maine or UNH or Vermont or Boston U as America East schools that happen to play hockey in Hockey East, you really need to reverse it. They are Hockey East schools that play their other sports in the AEast (+CAA football).

It's not a big deal that Maine associates with schools like Lowell or Merrimack or BC or Providence that don't participate in the AEast. Fans don't say "I don't recognize Providence, I'm not going to the hockey game tonight." It's the opposite. Fans see Binghamton or Hartford or UMBC coming in for basketball and say "I don't recognize Stony Brook, I'm not going to the game tonight" or "William and Mary doesn't mean anything to me, what was the difference between them and William Penn from last year?"

I realize that is a myopic view of the athletic world, assessing importance based upon hockey participation, but it's the reality of Maine's existance. I would hazard a guess that Delaware fans do it too. Football is king at UD, so when a gridiron rival like JMU or William and Mary play the Hens in hoops, there is more casual fan interest because they are recognizable, as contrasted with teams like Georgia State that don't show up on the football radar and so fans that are primarily football fans don't recognize them.

It's important to keep local rivalries with UNH, Vermont, and Boston U in all sports........but beyond that I agree with you. If Maine teams are winning, then Maine fans will show up (no matter who they are playing).

[carney2]

I think you will actually see an increase in the number of schools moving to I-A in the near future. The top I-AAs in conferences like the CAA are already spending nearly as much money on football as the I-As in conferences like the Sun Belt, MAC, WAC, and CUSA. For a lot of these top I-AAs, it won't break the bank to increase football speanding by 25% to get to the I-A level.

Oh, to dream the impossible dream; to scale these unscalable heights.

To any I-AA school, or group of schools moving "up" as a prepackaged conference, I say

BON VOYAGE, IDIOTS!

[rufus]

Oh, to dream the impossible dream; to scale these unscalable heights.

To any I-AA school, or group of schools moving "up" as a prepackaged conference, I say

BON VOYAGE, IDIOTS!
:bawling:

[henfan]

:rolleyes: Yeah, let's spin Maine's third athletic association (Hockey East) as negative.

Jeff, I wasn't spinning anything, merely providing facts in response to your suggestion that UD was indecisive. UD's been anything but and made the moves they had to, as any school would in its position, in placing all of their sports under one conference umbrella.

Since you were in the stone casting mode (again), my point of comparison was your alma mater, UMaine. You can't tell us with a straight face that playing sports in three separate conferences hasn't been problematic, regardless of Hockey East's national stature among college hockey fans. If a single unified conference weren't such a highly desirable goal, Pat Nero, upon his hire, wouldn't have stated his goals of an AEC FB start-up and a take over of Hockey East.

Hey, I'm one of the people who wish UMaine all the best. I hope they're part of a unified conference at some point. It's what's best for them. It's also incredibly hypocritical, if not downright moronic, for any Maine fan to suggest UD, Hofstra, TU, NU, JMU, W&M and ODU are somehow wrong for wanting the same thing.

[ccd494]

Jeff, I wasn't spinning anything, merely providing facts in response to your suggestion that UD was indecisive. UD's been anything but and made the moves they had to, as any school would in its position, in placing all of their sports under one conference umbrella.

Since you were in the stone casting mode (again), my point of comparison was your alma mater, UMaine. You can't tell us with a straight face that playing sports in three separate conferences hasn't been problematic, regardless of Hockey East's national stature among college hockey fans. If a single unified conference weren't such a highly desirable goal, Pat Nero, upon his hire, wouldn't have stated his goals of an AEC FB start-up and a take over of Hockey East.

Hey, I'm one of the people who wish UMaine all the best. I hope they're part of a unified conference at some point. It's what's best for them. It's also incredibly hypocritical, if not downright moronic, for any Maine fan to suggest UD, Hofstra, TU, NU, JMU, W&M and ODU are somehow wrong for wanting the same thing.

You are combining me and MJ.

Jeff has always been outspoken about AE football and hockey. I haven't seen it as a huge priority. I think AE football would be a positive if and only if the CAA is going to expand and the northern schools are going to get pushed out, but regarding our current football arrangement and hockey I don't understand why you would fix what ain't broke.

[henfan]

You are combining me and MJ.

CCD, my bad. I saw the Maine helmet logo & responded without checking the name. :rotateh: I apologize.

I'd agree that men's hockey is a unique situation. If the AEC can pull off a Hockey East takeover, AEC FB makes that much more sense, IMO. Until then, I really don't see the urgency for it but I understand the desire for it in due time. Albany & SBU may eventually need to find a suitable conference for FB. Maybe we'll hear more during the AEC summer meetings.

In any case, I don't see the CAA forcing any affiliate's hand; in fact, just the opposite.

[arkstfan]

FYI. The NCAA has changed it governance structure. When the current form was first adopted every I-A league was assured a spot on the Board of Directors and the Management Council with the voting representation determined on MC determined by I believe their NCAA revenue sharing portion (some leagues got 3 spots others 1.5).

In the meantime, I-AA and I-AAA conferences shared a number of spots on the Board and Council (more leagues than spots).

Since then the structure has been tweaked. The Board of Directors is now comprised of a representative from each of 11 listed conferences (all happen to be I-A) and then the remaining 20 listed conferences select 7 representatives (all 20 are I-AA and I-AA). The Management Council is comprised of three members each from seven listed I-A leagues, one member each from four other I-A leagues (each gets 1.5 votes) and then one each from 20 listed leagues (all I-AA and I-AAA) and four at-large from that group.

With those current rules, the CAA has no guarantee of getting a Board slot nor enhanced representation on the Council. In all likelihood the I-AA and I-AAA schools would never support the CAA being their representative to the Board of Directors or an at-large to the Council if the league moved I-A.

By removing the guarantee to I-A leagues they have removed a nice carrot that might entice a league to move up.