Illinois State to the FBS

[darell1976]

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/football/bowman-goal-remains-to-move-isu-football-to-fbs/article_64ebd512-5ab2-11e1-adab-001871e3ce6c.html


The timeline remains decidedly foggy, but Illinois State president Al Bowman has not wavered from his long-term goal for the Redbird football program.

“The long, long range vision is to play football at that next level,” Bowman said of moving from the Championship Subdivision to Bowl Subdivision. “But we’ve got a lot of ground between now and then.”


If and when they move up that leaves a spot open in the MVFC if they want to stay at 10....Does UND get invited and re-unite with the other Dakota 3 teams? UND would need a home for basketball, and volleyball which the BSC has but the BSC has no baseball but the Summit League does. There is still a war of words between SL President Tom Douple and UND president Robert Kelley over the whole nickname issue and scheduling thing. IMO things get intersting within the next few years or whenever ISU bolts for the FBS.

[Professor Chaos]

The Redbirds are still a very long way from the FBS. Even with this renovation they're only going to have a 15K seat stadium that went from being a craphole to serviceable at the MVFC level. They're going to need to put a lot more money into it to get it to a MAC (or whatever FBS conference they're eyeing) level.

Regardless of what Illinois St does I'm pretty sure the Summit would welcome UND (provided the nickname mess finally gets permanently put to bed) and would be willing to use their influence with the MVFC to lobby on UND's behalf to provide a football home as well. I don't know how long they'd be reunited with NDSU in the non-football sports though because if this does happen I'm sure NDSU will lobby hard to take IlSU's spot in the MVC. Unfortunately, NDSU's basketball facility at the same level as IlSU's football facility but hopefully that's changing in the next couple years.

[darell1976]

The Redbirds are still a very long way from the FBS. Even with this renovation they're only going to have a 15K seat stadium that went from being a craphole to serviceable at the MVFC level. They're going to need to put a lot more money into it to get it to a MAC (or whatever FBS conference they're eyeing) level.

Regardless of what Illinois St does I'm pretty sure the Summit would welcome UND (provided the nickname mess finally gets permanently put to bed) and would be willing to use their influence with the MVFC to lobby on UND's behalf to provide a football home as well. I don't know how long they'd be reunited with NDSU in the non-football sports though because if this does happen I'm sure NDSU will lobby hard to take IlSU's spot in the MVC. Unfortunately, NDSU's basketball facility at the same level as IlSU's football facility but hopefully that's changing in the next couple years.

So far a lot of UND fans don't want to leave the Big Sky. I would see UND moving out of the BSC if UND could get into the MVC in all sports. It sucks the BSC doesn't sponsor baseball..that makes the SL more attractive in that aspect. But I don't know how well Kelley and Douple would get along. It could be all politics that keeps UND from going to the SL. But crazier things has happened. Who would have guessed that South Dakota would be starting MVFC play in less than 7 months.

[MplsBison]

Don't think Illinois St is going anywhere in the near to mid term. The whole division landscape may look very different in 5 years. Who knows - maybe the whole MVC would move up to the "new" DII, which would be something like the top FCS conferences plus the non-BCS conferences from FBS.

I also think Missouri St and Youngstown St have better chances to leave the MVFC. And if they do, my top expansion candidates would be Eastern Illinois and UND.

[DJKyR0]

Can we stop phrasing our thread titles as if they're fact when they're not? That goes for Lakes and his "NDSU VS. FLORIDA ST!!!!!!" titles, too.

[kdinva]

Can we stop phrasing our thread titles as if they're fact when they're not? That goes for Lakes and his "NDSU VS. FLORIDA ST!!!!!!" titles, too.

+1

what's wrong with: "Illinois St. studying a possible 1-A move".........

[clenz]

For UND, NDSU, or SDSU to get a bid into the MVC would mean there has been some major shifting in alignments......it won't happen but you can hope I guess.....but I can hope/wish in one hand and **** in the other and see which one gets filled first

Sent from my Samsung Mezmerize using Tapatalk

[Twentysix]

So far a lot of UND fans don't want to leave the Big Sky. I would see UND moving out of the BSC if UND could get into the MVC in all sports. It sucks the BSC doesn't sponsor baseball..that makes the SL more attractive in that aspect. But I don't know how well Kelley and Douple would get along. It could be all politics that keeps UND from going to the SL. But crazier things has happened. Who would have guessed that South Dakota would be starting MVFC play in less than 7 months.

xlolx

Get in line. There are several schools that are better fits than the SU's and I gurantee you the SU's are infront of UND.

[LakesBison]

wow that was quite a spin job in post #1.

how about this.

NDSU will goto FBS before Illinois state does.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

wow that was quite a spin job in post #1.

how about this.

NDSU will goto FBS before Illinois state does.

Do you understand what a spin job is? He quoted an article, then posed a question based off of that. All suppositions in the question may not be solid but it has zero to do with "spinning" anything.

I'm not sure who would go first but it is extremely likely that neither will be going anywhere until long after the dust settles and then the NCAA may have to redo some things for the benefit of all involved.

[Twentysix]

Do you understand what a spin job is? He quoted an article, then posed a question based off of that. All suppositions in the question may not be solid but it has zero to do with "spinning" anything.

I'm not sure who would go first but it is extremely likely that neither will be going anywhere until long after the dust settles and then the NCAA may have to redo some things for the benefit of all involved.

Unless ISUr is in finacial ruin, which is totally possible. They will go FBS before NDSU.

A) they are in illinois

B) they already play at a higher level than MAC schools in everything outside football.

C) they have an outdoor stadium that is going to be rebuilt and expandable.

For NDSU to accomplish these things they have to be 120% more attractive than ISUr because of location and coming from a lower level conference in everything other than football. And NDSU would have to probably build an entirely new stadium, the fargodome isnt something that is easily expandable.

That said, I firmly believe that NDSU has way more potential than ISUr. Location is a big "initial" factor in deterring conferences.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Unless ISUr is in finacial ruin, which is totally possible. They will go FBS before NDSU.

A) they are in illinois

B) they already play at a higher level than MAC schools in everything outside football.

C) they have an outdoor stadium that is going to be rebuilt and expandable.

For NDSU to accomplish these things they have to be 120% more attractive than ISUr because of location and coming from a lower level conference in everything other than football. And NDSU would have to probably build an entirely new stadium, the fargodome isnt something that is easily expandable.

That said, I firmly believe that NDSU has way more potential than ISUr. Location is a big "initial" factor in detering conferences.

I didn't want that to come from outside of the NDSU fanbase. It succinctly nails all the points that I was formulating but didn't want it to look like I was trying to bash NDSU.

There are some huge advantages Ill. State has over NDSU which are completely unrelated to what NDSU's program and fans have done and the potential the program has.

[Professor Chaos]

For UND, NDSU, or SDSU to get a bid into the MVC would mean there has been some major shifting in alignments......it won't happen but you can hope I guess.....but I can hope/wish in one hand and **** in the other and see which one gets filled first

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I'm not smacking your postion but I'm interested who the other candidates the MVC would look at are. Are you referring to someone like Butler would join or do you mean that the MVC would stay at 9 or 8 teams should Missouri St and/or Illinois St bolt for an FBS conference?

[Twentysix]

Butler is a private school, they seem like a good candidate for a 30 team big east. Same with creighton.

Btw for your arguements sake, I would say creighton leaves the MVC before either of the other 2.

[Hambone]

UND, NDSU, Montana, Montana State, possibly the South Dakota schools will all go FBS together. Timeline would be in about 10 years. That's the bottom line, cuz Hambone said so......

[Mr. C]

Of all the school presidents through the years who have made similar bonehead statements, Al Bowman's remarks have to be near the top of the list. ISU has done almost nothing at the FCS level, plays in a terrible facility and doesn't even draw that many fans. What would the Redbirds have to offer to an FBS conference? Ever so often in the past half-dozen years, ISU has made comments about going FBS and they are just as ridiculous now as they were when they first brought it up. Why don't you build a decent FCS stadium and actually make the playoffs more than once or twice before you start clamoring about FBS?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

UND, NDSU, Montana, Montana State, possibly the South Dakota schools will all go FBS together. Timeline would be in about 10 years. That's the bottom line, cuz Hambone said so......

Love ya Hambone but it appears there will be a little less financial justification than the already small income vs. increased expenses. If the model stays as it is then I think you'll see some falling back to this level or possibly dropping football.

That's unlikely so I think the model will change to accommodate what top FCS budgets and lower level FBS budgets can handle without that carrot of BCS money out there.

I don't ever want to see the Griz move something where a bowl game is the lure. So if UND or anyone else wants to go to something like that then have it but I will hope & pray that Montana doesn't follow suit.

[Mr. C]

UND, NDSU, Montana, Montana State, possibly the South Dakota schools will all go FBS together. Timeline would be in about 10 years. That's the bottom line, cuz Hambone said so......

No one even knows what FBS will look like in 10 years. So much for that "bottom line."

[darell1976]

Of all the school presidents through the years who have made similar bonehead statements, Al Bowman's remarks have to be near the top of the list. ISU has done almost nothing at the FCS level, plays in a terrible facility and doesn't even draw that many fans. What would the Redbirds have to offer to an FBS conference? Ever so often in the past half-dozen years, ISU has made comments about going FBS and they are just as ridiculous now as they were when they first brought it up. Why don't you build a decent FCS stadium and actually make the playoffs more than once or twice before you start clamoring about FBS?

Maybe they are anxious to join that 100 team C-USA-Moutain West conference..or the MAC with N. Illinois.xlolx

[Mr. C]

Love ya Hambone but it appears there will be a little less financial justification than the already small income vs. increased expenses. If the model stays as it is then I think you'll see some falling back to this level or possibly dropping football.

That's unlikely so I think the model will change to accommodate what top FCS budgets and lower level FBS budgets can handle without that carrot of BCS money out there.

I don't ever want to see the Griz move something where a bowl game is the lure. So if UND or anyone else wants to go to something like that then have it but I will hope & pray that Montana doesn't follow suit.

Montana actually had an invite and decided that the numbers don't add up for FBS. I'm like you, Ursus, I would hate to think of an FCS that didn't include the Montana schools. If anything, the numbers are only going to get more out of whack in the future.

[Professor Chaos]

Of all the school presidents through the years who have made similar bonehead statements, Al Bowman's remarks have to be near the top of the list. ISU has done almost nothing at the FCS level, plays in a terrible facility and doesn't even draw that many fans. What would the Redbirds have to offer to an FBS conference? Ever so often in the past half-dozen years, ISU has made comments about going FBS and they are just as ridiculous now as they were when they first brought it up. Why don't you build a decent FCS stadium and actually make the playoffs more than once or twice before you start clamoring about FBS?
He yearns to play at a level where 6 or 7 win seasons get you into the postseason. Or what they like to refer to as the postseason at that level.

[Hambone]

I just wanted to see what it would like to be irrational and not think before I typed something :) Not a great feeling, so I'm going to go back to my old style.

[Mr. C]

Maybe they are anxious to join that 100 team C-USA-Moutain West conference..or the MAC with N. Illinois.xlolx

The WAC, the league where teams like my alma mater (Fresno State) are jumping off like rats from a sinking ship. Even the idiot commissioner, Karl Benson, is jumping ship for the Sun Belt, of all places.

[Mr. C]

He yearns to play at a level where 6 or 7 win seasons get you into the postseason. Or what they like to refer to as the postseason at that level.

Yes, the Redbirds could have played in the Toilet Bowl this year with those seven wins.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I just wanted to see what it would like to be irrational and not think before I typed something :) Not a great feeling, so I'm going to go back to my old style.

Once in a while is good for the soul. Taking a beating will keep you sharp if you don't make a habit of it like some do.:D

[darell1976]

The WAC, the league where teams like my alma mater (Fresno State) are jumping off like rats from a sinking ship. Even the idiot commissioner, Karl Benson, is jumping ship for the Sun Belt, of all places.

The WAC will be the GWFC of the FBS...it will just be a foot in the door at the FBS level until another conference calls.

[clenz]

I'm not smacking your postion but I'm interested who the other candidates the MVC would look at are. Are you referring to someone like Butler would join or do you mean that the MVC would stay at 9 or 8 teams should Missouri St and/or Illinois St bolt for an FBS conference?
I will start by being sure to remind you that the MVC and MVFC are completely separate conferences. While the MVFC is run by the same people as the MVC, membership in one has nothing to do with membership in the other.


With that said the MVC has prided itself on being a very tightly geographically grouped conference ever since the 70's when New Mexico State, Cinci, Kansas State, Louisville and West Texas State were in the conference. Yes, WSU and even MSU are "out of the way", but both have been in the coneference for a very long time (MSU 1990 and WSU 1945). MSU, UNI, and Evansville were the last teams to join the conference (90, 91, and 94) respectively. The last team to leave the conference was Tulsa in 1996. The MVC doesn't change a lot, and the commissioner Doug Elgin has said many many many times he wants to keep the conference at 10 because of the perfect conference schedule it allows for in every sport. Based entirely off of that the school with the "best" chance of getting in the MVC is USD or SDSU....I have the feeling the MVC doesn't wan to go any further NW than Creighton and UNI honestly. The big reason being travel expenses for Olympic sports. The thing about being either ND school is you are hurt very badly by conferences that are desperate for schools to keep the conference alive and can be picky....like the MVC.

HOWEVER, let's say some changes take place and the 2 schools mostly to leave - Missouri State and Illinois State for their FBS move (yes I said football and everything else are opposite, however a conference move their would likely require an all sports move.) WSU and Creighton both "want out" but without football it is going to take a Catholic League for Creighton and a basketball only conference/a conference like the new CUSAMWC to be willing to accept a basketball only school. Neither of those is likely as of right now. The most likely candidates for replacement of the two most likely to be gone by 2015 are:
1. St. Louis University - the conference is headquartered in St. Louis and they would be a near perfect fit. There is some resistance from *some* higher ups at SLU because they feel they are "better" than that. However, the A10 is very costly and depending how the schools split SLU could likely be left out.
2. Butler - They may fall into the "Catholic league" if that ever happens and drop football all together. However, they are outgrowing the Horizon and the A10 has no interest in expansion at all right now. Butler, in terms of basketball prowess is perfect for the MVC. The MVC is the premier "mid-major" conference when it comes to basketball. They also geographically aren't that far outside of the current footprint with ISUb and E'ville in Indiana.
3. Wisconsin-Milwaukee - getting into the Milwaukee market, even if it is only with UW-M, would be huge for the MVC. UW-M has played more than a couple MVC schools in basketball OOC the past couple years and is always trying to schedule MVC schools. The have an interest in the MVC - honestly the "biggest" issue would be the Panther mascot being shared and if their facilities are up to par. I know their basketball is, but I don't know about the rest of their facilities.
4. Eastern Illinois - Former GFC member and current OVC team. Illinois is a key market and keeping as many teams in Illinois is key for the conference.

After those it comes down to schools like WIU, USD, SDSU, SEMO, UI-C, SIU-E, etc... All of them are, in all honestly, right now a big step backwards from where the conference is now. If it comes to those schools being added in the conference is likely already very depleted because CU and WSU left for their basketball leagues, ISUR, MSU, SIU, and UNI went MAC/new CUSA (or something like that depending how the college football landscape shakes out).


I hate to sound like I don't want the Dakota schools, and I completely understand why they want in the MVC. However, the fact is if the MVC gets to the point of needing the Dakota schools there has been some major shifts and the MVC is just a shell of it self.

[mgbison]

Screw the MVC. I could care less about the majority of the teams in the conference. It would be fun to play UNI and Creighton in men's basketball, but other than that I'm not interested.

[Seawolf97]

Seems to be a mad rush to leave FCS - Illinois St, Coastal Carolina maybe Liberty. No need to expand the playoffs there will be no one left. Just kidding , got to think alot of school presidents and Ad's have the same thoughts from time to time. Just bring money and look for that invite into the turbulent FBS world. This sounds like a long range thought at best but good luck to the Redbirds going forward.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Screw the MVC. I could care less about the majority of the teams in the conference. It would be fun to play UNI and Creighton in men's basketball, but other than that I'm not interested.

This. Once you get beyond the big conferences, a mid major is a mid major.

Clenz is just jelly about football. this is still a football board, right?

[Dane96]

Coastal? Really...they have been talking FBS?

That's a total gasser...hahahahaha.

Liberty, is as good as gone...that's not an if...it's a when. My guess is in two-three years.

[clenz]

Screw the MVC. I could care less about the majority of the teams in the conference. It would be fun to play UNI and Creighton in men's basketball, but other than that I'm not interested.

The best mid-majors in America the last decade have come from the MVC.....You clearly don't belong in the MVC if you don't understand that.

The only mid-majors worth a damn for more than one magical run in the NCAA are Gonzaga, Butler, St. Mary's...then the MVC....


Bradley, UNI, Wichita State, Southern Illinois all have made the Sweet 16 since 2006 and The Valley is the only non-BCS league with more than two different Sweet 16 teams in that span. The State Farm MVC Tournament continues to be a spectacular showcase for the league, and the MVC has extended the tournament agreement with the Scottrade Center that will keep Arch Madness in St. Louis through at least 2013. During the 2011 State Farm MVC Championship, the league surpassed 1 million in total attendance for the event, now in its 22nd year at the Scotttrade Center. The tournament has a contract with CBS to have the games televised nationally. It is widely considered to be one of the top 3 or 4 conference tournaments in America behind only the ACC and Big East on a census basis.


If you don't want to be a part of the MVC then so be it....enjoy sitting in a conference that no one cares about. The MVC is at least respected.

[Professor Chaos]

Screw the MVC. I could care less about the majority of the teams in the conference. It would be fun to play UNI and Creighton in men's basketball, but other than that I'm not interested.


This. Once you get beyond the big conferences, a mid major is a mid major.

Clenz is just jelly about football. this is still a football board, right?
The MVC is head and shoulders above the Summit... it's not even close. Getting into that conference would be huge for all the non-football sports at NDSU. I do think the MVFC and MVC are more closely aligned than Clenz does but if the MVFC loses any teams to the FBS that's one less team in the MVC who's got skin in the game football-wise to support an invite to NDSU.

All mid-major conferences are not created equal. MVC >>>>>> Summit League

[frozennorth]

The MVC is the premier "mid-major" conference when it comes to basketball.

I match your MVC and raise you the MWC (unless they count as a major nowdays)

[TheBisonator]

I match your MVC and raise you the MWC (unless they count as a major nowdays)

The Mountain West is the best non-Power 6 conference.

IMO:

Power 6 = B1G, BXII, ACC, Big East, SEC, Pac-12

The Next 6 = MVC, MWC, A-10, WCC, CUSA, CAA


(The 7 After That = Horizon, Sun Belt, Summit, MAC, Big West, WAC, Ivy)


*conferences in no particular order

[clenz]

The MWC and MVC have nearly identical average RPI finish the last decade or so of about 7.5 (both have finished between 5 and 12, but usually between 7-9.). The two play a MVC/MWC every year. However, I'll repost this stat to compare the two conferences "Bradley, UNI, Wichita State, Southern Illinois all have made the Sweet 16 since 2006 and The Valley is the only non-BCS league with more than two different Sweet 16 teams in that span." BTW, the Valley has two likely S16 teams this year in Creighton (who has been ranked as high as #11 this year) and Wichita State (who has been screwed out of being ranked because they are "mid-major" and don't have a player like Doug McDermott at Creighton but they are 8-3 against the RPI top 100 this year). CU is projected at a 4-6 seed and WSU between a 2-4 seed....and WSU beat UNLV by 19.

The Summit League/Mid-Con average RPI finish the last decade you ask? Well, this is their best year yet and still aren't in the top 15.

11-12: 16
10-11: 21
09-10: 23
08-09: 26 (oddly enough the year NDSU was good and it was the Summit's worst year with it's current configuration and second worst ever)
07-08: 22
06-07: 22
05-06: 29
04-05: 24
03-04: 20

That's an average finish of 22.5. Yeah, you enjoy being in the Summit, and thinking the Summit is the same as the MVC.....


That's like thinking the Big South, NEC, MEAC, or OVC is the same as the MVFC, CAA, SoCon, or Big Sky


Oh, and there is the fact the MVC is the better baseball and volleyball conference than the MWC, and is probably on par with soccer (I don't follow college soccer as UNI doesn't have it in mens (and I don't follow the womens that closely), but Creighton did make the title game this year.

[frozennorth]

The MWC and MVC have nearly identical average RPI finish the last decade or so of about 7.5 (both have finished between 5 and 12, but usually between 7-9.). The two play a MVC/MWC every year. However, I'll repost this stat to compare the two conferences "Bradley, UNI, Wichita State, Southern Illinois all have made the Sweet 16 since 2006 and The Valley is the only non-BCS league with more than two different Sweet 16 teams in that span." BTW, the Valley has two likely S16 teams this year in Creighton (who has been ranked as high as #11 this year) and Wichita State (who has been screwed out of being ranked because they are "mid-major" and don't have a player like Doug McDermott at Creighton but they are 8-3 against the RPI top 100 this year). CU is projected at a 4-6 seed and WSU between a 2-4 seed....and WSU beat UNLV by 19.

The Summit League/Mid-Con average RPI finish the last decade you ask? Well, this is their best year yet and still aren't in the top 15.

11-12: 16
10-11: 21
09-10: 23
08-09: 26 (oddly enough the year NDSU was good and it was the Summit's worst year with it's current configuration and second worst ever)
07-08: 22
06-07: 22
05-06: 29
04-05: 24
03-04: 20

That's an average finish of 22.5. Yeah, you enjoy being in the Summit, and thinking the Summit is the same as the MVC.....


That's like thinking the Big South, NEC, MEAC, or OVC is the same as the MVFC, CAA, SoCon, or Big Sky


Oh, and there is the fact the MVC is the better baseball and volleyball conference than the MWC, and is probably on par with soccer (I don't follow college soccer as UNI doesn't have it in mens (and I don't follow the womens that closely), but Creighton did make the title game this year.

current members of the mwc have two more national titles than the mvc. I don't follow baseball because i live in north dakota, but i believe the additions to the MWC next year are all fairly respectable, and with fresno state next year, each conference has a title, and the mvc has a lead in cws appearances.

In unrelated news, northern colorado has made the CWS 10 times.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the summit.

[clenz]

I didn't bring the summit up. Other NDSU posters did, and went as far to say that outside of the bcs all the conferences are the sale, and made it sound as though the summit was on par with the mvc

Sent from my Samsung Mezmerize using Tapatalk

[frozennorth]

I didn't bring the summit up. Other NDSU posters did, and went as far to say that outside of the bcs all the conferences are the sale, and made it sound as though the summit was on par with the mvc

Sent from my Samsung Mezmerize using Tapatalk

noone made it sound like they were the same, except for the guy that said mid majors are all crap, who was promptly rebuked by another ndsu guy. methinks you are being a bit defensive here.

[citdog]

methinks you are being a bit defensive here.


Clenz be defensive???????????


NO WAY!



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DeOGxaSZKqU/TpKu0O0MjJI/AAAAAAAAAVs/nJf426bn3Ik/s1600/confused.jpg

[MTfan4life]

The best mid-majors in America the last decade have come from the MVC.....You clearly don't belong in the MVC if you don't understand that.

The only mid-majors worth a damn for more than one magical run in the NCAA are Gonzaga, Butler, St. Mary's...then the MVC....



Are you joking? Are you being a homer? or are you just that uninformed? The CAA has fielded two Final Four teams within the last 6 years. You didn't even mention either of those teams. How do you make such a big claim without even mentioning George Mason or VCU. It's much more significant to make the Final Four than the Sweet Sixteen. What Valley team has made more than one magical run? The Valley was given a five seed in Drake in 2008 and they lost to yet another impressive unmentioned mid-major team in Western Kentucky, who would have been to two straight sweet sixteens if not for a last second shot by Gonzaga in 09. You can say the Valley has been a decent conference, but have some substance if you're going to claim some sort of dominance over other mid-majors.

[mgbison]

clenz just jumps to conclusions and makes crap up.

I never once said the summit is a better conference than the mvc, I just said screw the mvc if they don't want us.

[LakesBison]

clenz. put down the paper bag from hyperventilating. SUMMIT has been around #14-16 MVC has been #8-9. So yes, a dropoff. http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

[ST_Lawson]

Unless ISUr is in finacial ruin, which is totally possible. They will go FBS before NDSU.

I don't know if they're quite to the point of "ruin", but no state schools in Illinois are doing very well right now. Regardless of your political stance, I think pretty much everyone can agree that our former Governor, Blagojevich, was only interested in furthering his own position and that of his buddies. Nearly everything else in the state was pretty much flushed down the toilet in terms of financial support. The current administration is still attempting to clean up that mess (with varying levels of success). This article somewhat describes the current situation (http://www.sj-r.com/top-stories/x485797861/State-owes-universities-half-billion-dollars), and on pages 2 and 3 of it, talk about the situation at MVFC schools SIU, WIU and ISUr, as well as OVC school EIU.

And regarding the MVC and Summit, I don't think anyone involved in either conference thinks that the two conferences are anywhere close to each other in basketball prowess. It would take a continuation of the current "turnaround" of our basketball teams, quite a few years of sustained success, possibly a basketball arena remodeling, and the support of our fellow MVFC schools who are also in the MVC...ISUr, ISUb, MSU, UNI, SIU...for WIU to have any chance of an invite to the MVC. It'd be awesome for us, but it's not going to happen any time soon, I don't think. I'd imagine that would be the case for pretty much any MVFC/Summit school looking at moving up to the MVC for non-football sports.

[NIU007]

Unless ISUr is in finacial ruin, which is totally possible. They will go FBS before NDSU.

A) they are in illinois

B) they already play at a higher level than MAC schools in everything outside football.

C) they have an outdoor stadium that is going to be rebuilt and expandable.

For NDSU to accomplish these things they have to be 120% more attractive than ISUr because of location and coming from a lower level conference in everything other than football. And NDSU would have to probably build an entirely new stadium, the fargodome isnt something that is easily expandable.

That said, I firmly believe that NDSU has way more potential than ISUr. Location is a big "initial" factor in deterring conferences.

ISU isn't better than the MAC in all sports other than football. I don't see them in the top 25 for men's soccer, or women's volleyball, just for starters. Also, how is ISU going to go to the FBS? The MAC isn't going to invite them for football-only, and they don't really fit geographically in another FBS conference except the Big 10/11/12 conference.

[Twentysix]

ISU isn't better than the MAC in all sports other than football. I don't see them in the top 25 for men's soccer, or women's volleyball, just for starters. Also, how is ISU going to go to the FBS? The MAC isn't going to invite them for football-only, and they don't really fit geographically in another FBS conference except the Big 10/11/12 conference.


Which conference ranks higher for mens basketball(MVC 9 MAC 15)? Now lets do womens basketball(MVC 10 MAC 12), Now Soccer(In mens soccer I see 2 MVC schools in the top 25 Creighton #4 and Bradley #25 In the MAC only #11 Akron)(In womens soccer neither conference makes the top 40 so they both arent great), W Volleyball(MVC 9 MAC 12, in the latest premium rankings I can find), Now everything else they all host. The MVC is a better conference than the MAC.

And honestly even in football with a 22 scholarship handicap, I expect the top half of the MVFC to beat most of the MAC schools into the ground.

[ASUMountaineer]

He yearns to play at a level where 6 or 7 win seasons get you into the postseason. Or what they like to refer to as the postseason at that level.

Sounds like the FCS...especially if you're in the CAA. Imagine what will happen with the FCS postseason once the playoffs expand to 24.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Sounds like the FCS...especially if you're in the CAA. Imagine what will happen with the FCS postseason once the playoffs expand to 24.

Could start becoming a limited occurrence with expansion in FCS but 6 wins has never cut it and 7 wins is as rare as a toothbrush in Georgia. Fact is you can count the FCS schools in the win total for that # in FBS but you have to look real hard to see a 7 win team in FCS and never get one with with a D2 win being one of the wins.

[Twentysix]

Could start becoming a limited occurrence with expansion in FCS but 6 wins has never cut it and 7 wins is as rare as a toothbrush in Georgia. Fact is you can count the FCS schools in the win total for that # in FBS but you have to look real hard to see a 7 win team in FCS and never get one with with a D2 win being one of the wins.

The FBS also play 12 or 13 regular season games whereas the FCS plays 11.

The FBS gets 1 lower division win to count towards those wins, whereas the FCS gets none.

To get a postseason bid in the FBS you must win .461% of your games. With one of those wins coming from a team in a lower subdivision.

To get a postseason bid in the FCS you must win .636% of your games. With none of those wins coming from a team in a lower subdivision.

[alvinkayak6]

The FBS also play 12 or 13 regular season games whereas the FCS plays 11.

The FBS gets 1 lower division win to count towards those wins, whereas the FCS gets none.

To get a postseason bid in the FBS you must win .461% of your games. With one of those wins coming from a team in a lower subdivision.

To get a postseason bid in the FCS you must win .636% of your games. With none of those wins coming from a team in a lower subdivision.

That is a really interesting comparison because it puts schools like Furman in a spot where they have to decide between paycheck games at Florida and presumed wins vs. Charleston Southern. What absolutely cannot happen is Delaware playing West Chester because of some "tradition". That serves no purpose when you play in the CAA, IMO.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Which conference ranks higher for mens basketball(MVC 9 MAC 15)? Now lets do womens basketball(MVC 10 MAC 12), Now Soccer(In mens soccer I see 2 MVC schools in the top 25 Creighton #4 and Bradley #25 In the MAC only #11 Akron)(In womens soccer neither conference makes the top 40 so they both arent great), W Volleyball(MVC 9 MAC 12, in the latest premium rankings I can find), Now everything else they all host. The MVC is a better conference than the MAC.

And honestly even in football with a 22 scholarship handicap, I expect the top half of the MVFC to beat most of the MAC schools into the ground.


I agree 100%

In 07 we piss-pounded Central Michigan 44-14 and they won the MAC and their bowl game. IMO, most years, NDSU/UNI would be battling for the MAC title if they were in that conference. With 22 more schollies, both schools would consistently be battlling for the MAC title most years.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The FBS also play 12 or 13 regular season games whereas the FCS plays 11.

The FBS gets 1 lower division win to count towards those wins, whereas the FCS gets none.

To get a postseason bid in the FBS you must win .461% of your games. With one of those wins coming from a team in a lower subdivision.

To get a postseason bid in the FCS you must win .636% of your games. With none of those wins coming from a team in a lower subdivision.

BOOM!

IN YOUR FACE ASUMOUNTAINEER!:D

[superman7515]

That is a really interesting comparison because it puts schools like Furman in a spot where they have to decide between paycheck games at Florida and presumed wins vs. Charleston Southern. What absolutely cannot happen is Delaware playing West Chester because of some "tradition". That serves no purpose when you play in the CAA, IMO.

You won't find a Delaware fan that disagrees with you. It started off as a series of convenience when both teams were D2 and then continued because of admin from West Chester in high places at Delaware trying to help the Golden Rams out. The payout that Delaware gave West Chester every year paid for all of West Chesters schollies each year.

[alvinkayak6]

You won't find a Delaware fan that disagrees with you. It started off as a series of convenience when both teams were D2 and then continued because of admin from West Chester in high places at Delaware trying to help the Golden Rams out. The payout that Delaware gave West Chester every year paid for all of West Chesters schollies each year.

It is always for the benefit of the kids! :/

[NIU007]

Which conference ranks higher for mens basketball(MVC 9 MAC 15)? Now lets do womens basketball(MVC 10 MAC 12), Now Soccer(In mens soccer I see 2 MVC schools in the top 25 Creighton #4 and Bradley #25 In the MAC only #11 Akron)(In womens soccer neither conference makes the top 40 so they both arent great), W Volleyball(MVC 9 MAC 12, in the latest premium rankings I can find), Now everything else they all host. The MVC is a better conference than the MAC.

And honestly even in football with a 22 scholarship handicap, I expect the top half of the MVFC to beat most of the MAC schools into the ground.

The statement was that ISU was better than the MAC, not that the MVC was better than the MAC. I'm not sure exactly what that means - better than everyone in the MAC? Better than most?

You might expect the MVFC to beat most of the MAC schools but you'd probably be wrong. We heard the same stuff from CAA fans before New Hampshire got stomped by Toledo. The MAC is better than many give it credit for. There are always a few bad teams, but the better teams are good.

I wouldn't expect ISU to go to the MAC because they wouldn't want to move their basketball there in particular. But the MAC wouldn't invite them at this point without all sports. So they can have fun in the WAC if they want.

[MplsBison]

The statement was that ISU was better than the MAC, not that the MVC was better than the MAC. I'm not sure exactly what that means - better than everyone in the MAC? Better than most?

You might expect the MVFC to beat most of the MAC schools but you'd probably be wrong. We heard the same stuff from CAA fans before New Hampshire got stomped by Toledo. The MAC is better than many give it credit for. There are always a few bad teams, but the better teams are good.

I wouldn't expect ISU to go to the MAC because they wouldn't want to move their basketball there in particular. But the MAC wouldn't invite them at this point without all sports. So they can have fun in the WAC if they want.

Temple and UMass have been allowed to keep their bball teams in the superior A10 conf.

Looks like Temple is leaving for the Big East in football as early as this season, so UMass replaces them in the East - maintaining the 6-7 uneven membership west-east.


Makes perfect sense to add a MVFC team to the MAC west division while allowing their non-football sports to remain in the MVC.

[NIU007]

Temple and UMass have been allowed to keep their bball teams in the superior A10 conf.

Looks like Temple is leaving for the Big East in football as early as this season, so UMass replaces them in the East - maintaining the 6-7 uneven membership west-east.


Makes perfect sense to add a MVFC team to the MAC west division while allowing their non-football sports to remain in the MVC.

I don't know what they think in the MAC offices but most of us fans have decided that football-only is a mistake. Football-only teams have no real interest in the MAC and only lead to instability in the conference. I'd have to think the university presidents have come to the same conclusion, but who knows. There's no good reason for us to have added Temple football-only IMO, and we only added UMass to even out the divisions. I would rather eliminate divisions in the other sports if we had to, while UMass is in the conference.

[alvinkayak6]

I don't know what they think in the MAC offices but most of us fans have decided that football-only is a mistake. Football-only teams have no real interest in the MAC and only lead to instability in the conference. I'd have to think the university presidents have come to the same conclusion, but who knows. There's no good reason for us to have added Temple football-only IMO, and we only added UMass to even out the divisions. I would rather eliminate divisions in the other sports if we had to, while UMass is in the conference.

Football only is a mistake IMO. You then risk turning your football conference into a revolving door for FCS step-ups and Big East departures.

[Twentysix]

The statement was that ISU was better than the MAC, not that the MVC was better than the MAC. I'm not sure exactly what that means - better than everyone in the MAC? Better than most?

You might expect the MVFC to beat most of the MAC schools but you'd probably be wrong. We heard the same stuff from CAA fans before New Hampshire got stomped by Toledo. The MAC is better than many give it credit for. There are always a few bad teams, but the better teams are good.

I wouldn't expect ISU to go to the MAC because they wouldn't want to move their basketball there in particular. But the MAC wouldn't invite them at this point without all sports. So they can have fun in the WAC if they want.

After playing MAC schools with our Hybrid FCS/D2 team, I dont believe you. http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=272652117 http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=262662050

I would love to see NIU travel to the Fargodome. See how the MAC fairs in a road game... Cause they didnt fair very well at home.

[LakesBison]

ILLINOIS STATE, UNI, YOUNGSTOWN ST, NDSU TO THE MAC as a 4some and kick their asses.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I love how you play the move up game with whatever team(s) you can align the Bison with in this game of Survivor you have knocking around in your head.xlolx

There has got to be room in that head for some rational thought doesn't there?

[LakesBison]

urses, no one is supposed to figure it out.

[ST_Lawson]

I agree 100%

In 07 we piss-pounded Central Michigan 44-14 and they won the MAC and their bowl game. IMO, most years, NDSU/UNI would be battling for the MAC title if they were in that conference. With 22 more schollies, both schools would consistently be battlling for the MAC title most years.

This has been the case for quite a while. Back when WIU was one of the top teams in the MVFC (Gateway at the time), from '96-'03, WIU had a pretty good record against the MAC:
1996 - Won at Northern Illinois, 17-0
1998 - Lost at Central Michigan, 35-14
1998 - Won at Buffalo, 41-6 (technically I-AA, went I-A and MAC the next year)
1999 - Won at Northern Illinois, 27-21
2000 - Won at Ball State, 24-14
2002 - Won at Northern Illinois, 29-26
2003 - Won at Eastern Michigan, 34-12

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This has been the case for quite a while. Back when WIU was one of the top teams in the MVFC (Gateway at the time), from '96-'03, WIU had a pretty good record against the MAC:
1996 - Won at Northern Illinois, 17-0
1998 - Lost at Central Michigan, 35-14
1998 - Won at Buffalo, 41-6 (technically I-AA, went I-A and MAC the next year)
1999 - Won at Northern Illinois, 27-21
2000 - Won at Ball State, 24-14
2002 - Won at Northern Illinois, 29-26
2003 - Won at Eastern Michigan, 34-12


Didn't know this about WIU......that is a pretty good record against the MAC.

How do you think Western will do this year?

[Twentysix]

This has been the case for quite a while. Back when WIU was one of the top teams in the MVFC (Gateway at the time), from '96-'03, WIU had a pretty good record against the MAC:
1996 - Won at Northern Illinois, 17-0
1998 - Lost at Central Michigan, 35-14
1998 - Won at Buffalo, 41-6 (technically I-AA, went I-A and MAC the next year)
1999 - Won at Northern Illinois, 27-21
2000 - Won at Ball State, 24-14
2002 - Won at Northern Illinois, 29-26
2003 - Won at Eastern Michigan, 34-12

I didn't know this either and find it very interesting! The more/or less impressive thing is that everygame is @. When they are losing that many games, at home even... how would they be fairing against MVFC teams if they were playing 50% of them on the road.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I didn't know this either and find it very interesting! The more/or less impressive thing is that everygame is @. When they are losing that many games, at home even... how would they be fairing against MVFC teams if they were playing 50% of them on the road.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly!!!

Even with 85 schollies the MAC is not much above, if at all, the MV.

[darell1976]

This has been the case for quite a while. Back when WIU was one of the top teams in the MVFC (Gateway at the time), from '96-'03, WIU had a pretty good record against the MAC:
1996 - Won at Northern Illinois, 17-0
1998 - Lost at Central Michigan, 35-14
1998 - Won at Buffalo, 41-6 (technically I-AA, went I-A and MAC the next year)
1999 - Won at Northern Illinois, 27-21
2000 - Won at Ball State, 24-14
2002 - Won at Northern Illinois, 29-26
2003 - Won at Eastern Michigan, 34-12

I don't think NIU would want to play you guys anymore.

[ST_Lawson]

Didn't know this about WIU......that is a pretty good record against the MAC.
How do you think Western will do this year?

Despite recent lack of success, Western has, at times, been a VERY good football team. From '96 to '03 we went 72-26 overall (.735) with 6 trips to the playoffs, 2 Buchanan Award winners (http://sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/buchanan_history.htm#Hartwell) (we were known for having an insane D back then), 2 playoff wins over Montana (52-9 in '98, 43-40 in '03 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=233330149)), a playoff dismantling of Tony Romo and the EIU Panthers in '02 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=223342710), as well as a regular season win against that season's eventual National Champion, Western Kentucky (http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=222570098). Our worst finish in that time frame was 5-5 in 2001.

That being said, we're a few years removed from those days. We got lucky a couple of years ago, but mostly it's been pretty rough. We do have what appears to be a great group of young guys and some smart new coaches in key positions. We've got a running back who could be one of the best we've ever had. Nikko Watson (http://www.goleathernecks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=50027&SPID=4963&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=12000&ATCLID=205179721&Q_SEASON=2012), was a redshirt until injuries forced the coaches to put him in halfway through last season. Played only 4 games, without any college experience, and averaged 121 ypg with 3 TDs. So, I'm cautiously optimistic, but thinking that a winning season this year, and a playoff appearance the next is not out of the question.


I don't think NIU would want to play you guys anymore.
Yea, after beating them at home three times and convincing their starting QB at the time to come play WR for us (Frisman Jackson (http://www.niuhuskies.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jackson_frisman00.html)), they decided they didn't want to play us again until they were quite a bit better, and we were quite a bit worse. We played them again in '09 (the year we went 1-10, with our only win the season-opener at Sam Houston State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/2710/year/2009/western-illinois-leathernecks)), with the more "expected" result of 41-7.

[JSUBison]

This has been the case for quite a while. Back when WIU was one of the top teams in the MVFC (Gateway at the time), from '96-'03, WIU had a pretty good record against the MAC:
1996 - Won at Northern Illinois, 17-0
1998 - Lost at Central Michigan, 35-14
1998 - Won at Buffalo, 41-6 (technically I-AA, went I-A and MAC the next year)
1999 - Won at Northern Illinois, 27-21
2000 - Won at Ball State, 24-14
2002 - Won at Northern Illinois, 29-26
2003 - Won at Eastern Michigan, 34-12

This is good stuff. I wonder what the overall record of current MVFC is against current members of the MAC? I might do some searching.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Despite recent lack of success, Western has, at times, been a VERY good football team. From '96 to '03 we went 72-26 overall (.735) with 6 trips to the playoffs, 2 Buchanan Award winners (http://sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/buchanan_history.htm#Hartwell) (we were known for having an insane D back then), 2 playoff wins over Montana (52-9 in '98, 43-40 in '03 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=233330149)), a playoff dismantling of Tony Romo and the EIU Panthers in '02 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=223342710), as well as a regular season win against that season's eventual National Champion, Western Kentucky (http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=222570098). Our worst finish in that time frame was 5-5 in 2001.

That being said, we're a few years removed from those days. We got lucky a couple of years ago, but mostly it's been pretty rough. We do have what appears to be a great group of young guys and some smart new coaches in key positions. We've got a running back who could be one of the best we've ever had. Nikko Watson (http://www.goleathernecks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=50027&SPID=4963&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=12000&ATCLID=205179721&Q_SEASON=2012), was a redshirt until injuries forced the coaches to put him in halfway through last season. Played only 4 games, without any college experience, and averaged 121 ypg with 3 TDs. So, I'm cautiously optimistic, but thinking that a winning season this year, and a playoff appearance the next is not out of the question.


Yea, after beating them at home three times and convincing their starting QB at the time to come play WR for us (Frisman Jackson (http://www.niuhuskies.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jackson_frisman00.html)), they decided they didn't want to play us again until they were quite a bit better, and we were quite a bit worse. We played them again in '09 (the year we went 1-10, with our only win the season-opener at Sam Houston State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/2710/year/2009/western-illinois-leathernecks)), with the more "expected" result of 41-7.

Troof, WIU was a very good, big, physical, great Defense team for a long while. They were very much like what NDSU became this year.

This serves as another great example too. You have two very good NDSU guys that didn't know about it and got to talk some history with the FCS teams.

There was a time not long ago when some Bison fans were just annoying to talk to because everything they had done so far like beating an FBS team from the MAC or other lower division had never happened before when that stuff isn't that rare.

I can not tell ya how much I've enjoyed the new face of NDSU on this board. Great job to the NDSU guys.xnodx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Troof, WIU was a very good, big, physical, great Defense team for a long while. They were very much like what NDSU became this year.

This serves as another great example too. You have two very good NDSU guys that didn't know about it and got to talk some history with the FCS teams.

There was a time not long ago when some Bison fans were just annoying to talk to because everything they had done so far like beating an FBS team from the MAC or other lower division had never happened before when that stuff isn't that rare.

I can not tell ya how much I've enjoyed the new face of NDSU on this board. Great job to the NDSU guys.xnodx

Oh and btw, that playoff win over Montana in 1998 was not as close as the score would indicate.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

JFC, I quoted myself again.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

JFC, I quoted myself again.

True but that last one kinda makes sense. Talk to you later ursus I gotta get some work done.

[clenz]

This is good stuff. I wonder what the overall record of current MVFC is against current members of the MAC? I might do some searching.
Teams currently in the MVFC are 235-349-28 against teams currently in the MAC....
Akron 30-33-2
Ball St 36-55-2
Bowling Green 2-13
Buffalo 8-6
CMU 34-63-2
EMU 43-48-8
Kent St 6-6
Miami 0-1
NIU 62-83-11
Ohio 4-6
Temple 1-1
Toledo 3-10-1
WMU 6-24-2

I don't feel like breaking that down further into "FCS vs. FBS only"...IE games against Buffalo before they moved, etc...


Considering the majority of those games are road games, I'd guess, and with less scholarships....thats pretty damn good.

[NIU007]

After playing MAC schools with our Hybrid FCS/D2 team, I dont believe you. http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=272652117 http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=262662050

I would love to see NIU travel to the Fargodome. See how the MAC fairs in a road game... Cause they didnt fair very well at home.

Can't open the link right now - I know N Dakota St. is a good team, anybody else? The MAC doesn't seem to play the MVFC much. If we're talking about games several years ago, NIU used to play Indiana State and they were very bad.

[clenz]

Can't open the link right now - I know N Dakota St. is a good team, anybody else? The MAC doesn't seem to play the MVFC much. If we're talking about games several years ago, NIU used to play Indiana State and they were very bad.

Are you asking if there are other good teams in the MVFC? Really?....


MAC fans must be pretty desperate for attention if they are starting to troll FCS boards.

[clenz]

UNI has won it's last three games against MAC teams....3 wins in 4 years and the MAC has refused to play UNI since then...

[ST_Lawson]

Troof, WIU was a very good, big, physical, great Defense team for a long while. They were very much like what NDSU became this year.

This serves as another great example too. You have two very good NDSU guys that didn't know about it and got to talk some history with the FCS teams.

There was a time not long ago when some Bison fans were just annoying to talk to because everything they had done so far like beating an FBS team from the MAC or other lower division had never happened before when that stuff isn't that rare.

I can not tell ya how much I've enjoyed the new face of NDSU on this board. Great job to the NDSU guys.xnodx

Yup, at one point (around '03-'05) we had the highest # of players in the NFL of any FCS team from all of those guys in the late '90s and early '00s. We were known for our Defense, some pretty solid RBs, and trust me, you did not want to have to be on the receiving end of a Mike Scifres punt. Not only could he kick like a beast, but he wasn't afraid to take a guy down who'd gotten past coverage. I'll never forget one time seeing a returner get past the coverage guys, streaking down the sideline thinking he had a TD...out of nowhere comes Scifres who full-on clotheslines the guy. The guy's feet fly up over his head and he slams to the ground shoulders-first. Not often you'll see a punter cause an injury time-out like that.

Re: NDSU...despite making the MVFC that much tougher to play in for my own team, I think they've been an excellent addition to the conference. A solid proven winner who raises the overall quality of the conference and has already brought honor in the form of the first National Championship since '02. Their fans travel well, which is always a bonus for the communities of the teams that they visit. I'm actually disappointed that, due to the new scheduling format of the MVFC, we won't play NDSU again until (I think) 2014.

[ST_Lawson]

Are you asking if there are other good teams in the MVFC? Really?....

MAC fans must be pretty desperate for attention if they are starting to troll FCS boards.

Wow, they obviously haven't been paying attention much. Yes, last year was NDSU's year, but pretty much every year I'd say that the top 2-3 MFVC teams could match up pretty favorably with any MAC team. Just look at last year...
UNI lost at Big 12 Iowa State by 1 point
NDSU beat Big 10 Minnesota by 13 points
And when ISUb (who finished 6-5 overall last season) matched up with WKU, one of the top teams in the Sun Belt (went 7-5 overall and 7-1 in their conference last year)...the Sycamores came away with a 28 point win.

I realize that the Sagarin rankings have problems, but they are one of the few rankings that includes FBS and FCS teams and conferences. By their ranking, the MAC and Sun Belt are only slightly better than the MVFC, and for the teams in the MAC and MVFC, here's the ranking:
37 North Dakota State (MVFC)
40 Toledo (MAC)
46 Temple (MAC)
47 Northern Illinois (MAC)
68 Ohio (MAC)
75 Northern Iowa (MVFC)
78 Western Michigan (MAC)
98 Miami-Ohio (MAC)
99 Bowling Green (MAC)
100 Ball State (MAC)
108 Illinois State (MVFC)
115 Youngstown State (MVFC)
116 Kent State (MAC)
117 Indiana State (MVFC)
119 Eastern Michigan (MAC)
135 Buffalo (MAC)
137 Central Michigan (MAC)
140 South Dakota State (MVFC)
146 Southern Illinois (MVFC)
160 Missouri State (MVFC)
183 Western Illinois (MVFC)
198 Akron (MAC)

The best team, NDSU....the worst....Akron. Overall, the MAC does have more higher ranked teams than the MVFC, but in any given year, the best of the MVFC could win the MAC, and the worst of the MAC would be "bottom feeders" in the MVFC.

[clenz]

That's with 22 less scholarships to give to players.

[Twentysix]

The best team, NDSU....the worst....Akron. Overall, the MAC does have more higher ranked teams than the MVFC, but in any given year, the best of the MVFC could win the MAC, and the worst of the MAC would be "bottom feeders" in the MVFC.

And that is while maintaing a 22 scholarship handicap for the MVFC football teams... Put the teams on equal scholarship footing and lets see how it goes...

[clenz]

And that is while maintaing a 22 scholarship handicap for the MVFC football teams... Put the teams on equal scholarship footing and lets see how it goes...

Hell, keep the 22 scholly difference, but play the games on neutral sites...or at MVFC sites....

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Hell, keep the 22 scholly difference, but play the games on neutral sites...or at MVFC sites....

No doubt. Those games are frequently close as it is so if 1/2 of them were not home games then it gets real very quickly in my mind.

[NIU007]

Teams currently in the MVFC are 235-349-28 against teams currently in the MAC....
Akron 30-33-2
Ball St 36-55-2
Bowling Green 2-13
Buffalo 8-6
CMU 34-63-2
EMU 43-48-8
Kent St 6-6
Miami 0-1
NIU 62-83-11
Ohio 4-6
Temple 1-1
Toledo 3-10-1
WMU 6-24-2

I don't feel like breaking that down further into "FCS vs. FBS only"...IE games against Buffalo before they moved, etc...


Considering the majority of those games are road games, I'd guess, and with less scholarships....thats pretty damn good.

You're saying the MVFC has played 156 games against NIU? When was that?

[BisonHype!]

I can't see ISU going FBS anytime soon.

[ST_Lawson]

You're saying the MVFC has played 156 games against NIU? When was that?
Well, to start with, WIU alone has played NIU 39 times starting in 1903 and has a 17-21-1 record against them overall (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/missourivalley/western_illinois/opponents_records.php?teamid=2317).

From 1920-1967, Northern Illinois was in the Illinois Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Intercollegiate_Athletic_Conference).
Current MVFC teams that were also in that conference:
Illinois State University (1910-1970)
Southern Illinois University (1913-1962)
Western Illinois University (1914-1970)

So, there's three MVFC teams that for 47 years were in the same conference as NIU. It was a large conference by today's standards, so they probably had some rotating schedule, meaning NIU didn't play every team every year, but NIU vs ISUr, SIU or WIU were fairly regular games.
NIU didn't "move up" and join the MAC until 1973, went independent in '87, joined the Big West Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_West_Conference) from '93-'95, independent again in '96, then back to the MAC in '97 (Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Illinois_Huskies_football#History))
Even after leaving the IIAC in '67, WIU (so far) has played NIU 10 times, an average of once every 4-5 years.

Once you add in Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Indiana State, and North Dakota State, it's easy to see how NIU has played MVFC teams 156 times. Here is the breakdown of how many games NIU has played against current MVFC teams. (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/mac/northern_illinois/vs_conf_opponents.php?confid=59&restrictions=none)

[BisonHype!]

Well... I guess we know who won the NIU question. Pretty clear he has his info straight.

[NIU007]

Well, to start with, WIU alone has played NIU 39 times starting in 1903 and has a 17-21-1 record against them overall (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/missourivalley/western_illinois/opponents_records.php?teamid=2317).

From 1920-1967, Northern Illinois was in the Illinois Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Intercollegiate_Athletic_Conference).
Current MVFC teams that were also in that conference:
Illinois State University (1910-1970)
Southern Illinois University (1913-1962)
Western Illinois University (1914-1970)

So, there's three MVFC teams that for 47 years were in the same conference as NIU. It was a large conference by today's standards, so they probably had some rotating schedule, meaning NIU didn't play every team every year, but NIU vs ISUr, SIU or WIU were fairly regular games.
NIU didn't "move up" and join the MAC until 1973, went independent in '87, joined the Big West Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_West_Conference) from '93-'95, independent again in '96, then back to the MAC in '97 (Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Illinois_Huskies_football#History))
Even after leaving the IIAC in '67, WIU (so far) has played NIU 10 times, an average of once every 4-5 years.

Once you add in Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Indiana State, and North Dakota State, it's easy to see how NIU has played MVFC teams 156 times. Here is the breakdown of how many games NIU has played against current MVFC teams. (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/mac/northern_illinois/vs_conf_opponents.php?confid=59&restrictions=none)

Yea, I figured it had to be when NIU was in a lower division, as they've been in the MAC, Big West or independent the rest of the time, and I don't remember playing a lot of games against MVFC teams when we were independent. I guess I should have specified, I was thinking recent history, at least our Division I history. I certainly can't vouch for what the MAC was like 30 years ago. I remember WIU beating us some of the time, years ago. The last several years we've only played a few MVFC teams.

[ST_Lawson]

Well... I guess we know who won the NIU question. Pretty clear he has his info straight.

I've been very heavily following Western Illinois Football for about 16 years now (since I was a freshman at WIU), and since then I've only missed 3 home games. I've also been to the last 4 games that WIU played at NIU and have had many friends go to school there. Doesn't hurt that they're a fellow Illinois state school.

Also, Wikipedia and College Football Data Warehouse (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/) are immensely useful for researching this kind of stuff, and I try to do my homework before making posts like that.

[ST_Lawson]

Yea, I figured it had to be when NIU was in a lower division, as they've been in the MAC, Big West or independent the rest of the time, and I don't remember playing a lot of games against MVFC teams when we were independent. I guess I should have specified, I was thinking recent history, at least our Division I history. I certainly can't vouch for what the MAC was like 30 years ago. I remember WIU beating us some of the time, years ago. The last several years we've only played a few MVFC teams.

That's true, if you go back to 1990, for example, NIU's played 14 games (slightly more than once every other year) against the MVFC/Gateway and they are 10-4 against the conference in that time. This is including Eastern Illinois, who was in the Gateway until 1995.

2009 - Win vs WIU
2008 - Win vs ISUb
2007 - Loss vs SIU
2006 - Win vs ISUb
2004 - Win vs SIU
2002 - Loss vs WIU
2000 - Win vs ISUr
1999 - Loss vs WIU
1996 - Loss vs WIU
1994 - Win vs Eastern Illinois (MVFC/Gateway member until 1995)
1993 - Win vs SIU
1992 - Win vs ISUr
1991 - Win vs ISUr
1990 - Win vs Eastern Illinois

[NIU007]

That's true, if you go back to 1990, for example, NIU's played 14 games (slightly more than once every other year) against the MVFC/Gateway and they are 10-4 against the conference in that time. This is including Eastern Illinois, who was in the Gateway until 1995.

2009 - Win vs WIU
2008 - Win vs ISUb
2007 - Loss vs SIU
2006 - Win vs ISUb
2004 - Win vs SIU
2002 - Loss vs WIU
2000 - Win vs ISUr
1999 - Loss vs WIU
1996 - Loss vs WIU
1994 - Win vs Eastern Illinois (MVFC/Gateway member until 1995)
1993 - Win vs SIU
1992 - Win vs ISUr
1991 - Win vs ISUr
1990 - Win vs Eastern Illinois

BTW - I noticed (and somebody else mentioned) while looking through NFL rosters that WIU seems to have gotten a lot of guys into the NFL. Don't know if that's recruiting or coaching or both, but it's pretty impressive for an FCS team - better than a lot of FBS teams.

[BisonHype!]

So.....

[BisonHype!]

So, anyone up for a beer? I am done with work now...

[ST_Lawson]

BTW - I noticed (and somebody else mentioned) while looking through NFL rosters that WIU seems to have gotten a lot of guys into the NFL. Don't know if that's recruiting or coaching or both, but it's pretty impressive for an FCS team - better than a lot of FBS teams.

Combination of both mostly. Good recruiting, some very solid transfers, etc. I think we're down to only three players on current rosters: Mike Scifres (http://www.nfl.com/player/mikescifres/2505529/profile), Jason Williams (http://www.nfl.com/player/jasonwilliams/89818/profile), and Herb Donaldson (http://www.nfl.com/player/herbdonaldson/89708/profile); but used to be quite a few more. I think at one point we had upwards of 11-12 active players in the NFL at one time.