Patriot League-Scholarships and Expansion

[Wildcat80]

Congrats to the League! Any thoughts on expansion schools?

http://www.patriotleague.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/021312aac.html

[Dane96]

Ya miss the 22 page thread?

[Wildcat80]

Oops! Been away and just catching up on the news. 22 pages!? That needs a refresh!

[carney2]

The Patriot League is poised to snatch Columbia, Dartmouth and Princeton from the Ivies. Based on football performance, none of them belong in the Ivy League anyway. Princeton is a bit of a surprise, but it is thought that the prospect of an annual gimme win over Lafayette was too much to pass up. There is some talk that Princeton requires an annual home and home with the Pards to seal the deal.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The league would be crazy if they didn't make a seriosus attempt to land UNH and Maine. Both have a very "patriot" feel to them despite being public universities. UNH has its share of popped collars.

[Wildcat80]

Transfers! Now that could open up a ton of possibilities. Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette got a taste of FCS playoff success....looks like "they are in it to win it now".

[van]

Transfers! Now that could open up a ton of possibilities. Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette got a taste of FCS playoff success....looks like "they are in it to win it now".

Lafayette with playoff success? Surely you jest or are you just trolling?

[Wildcat80]

I thought they were in a few times...no?

[Bill]

The league would be crazy if they didn't make a seriosus attempt to land UNH and Maine. Both have a very "patriot" feel to them despite being public universities. UNH has its share of popped collars.

Please, (especially UNH & Maine people) don't take this as an attack, but I think comparing UNH and Maine to Patriot League schools is akin to the apples/oranges debate. They're not close to the same. Each school does a fine job serving its constituents, but they have different academic missions. Here's the 2010 admit data ( I included Colgate and Lehigh, the PL's most successful playoff schools):
UNH
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 73%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 490 / 590
• SAT Math: 510 / 620
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 88%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 56%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 75%
Maine
• Percent of Applicants Admitted: 80%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 470 / 580
• SAT Math: 480 / 590
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 79%
• Transfer Out Rate: 25%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 34%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 57%

Colgate:
• Percent of Applicants Admitted: 33%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 630 / 720
• SAT Math: 640 / 740
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 93%
• Transfer-out Rate: 9%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 83%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 88%

Lehigh
• Percent of Applicants Admitted: 33%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 580 / 670
• SAT Math: 630 / 720
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 94%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 76%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 86%

[MplsBison]

Please, (especially UNH & Maine people) don't take this as an attack, but I think comparing UNH and Maine to Patriot League schools is akin to the apples/oranges debate. They're not close to the same. Each school does a fine job serving its constituents, but they have different academic missions. Here's the 2010 admit data ( I included Colgate and Lehigh, the PL's most successful playoff schools):
UNH
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 73%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 490 / 590
• SAT Math: 510 / 620
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 88%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 56%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 75%
Maine
• Percent of Applicants Admitted: 80%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 470 / 580
• SAT Math: 480 / 590
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 79%
• Transfer Out Rate: 25%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 34%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 57%

Colgate:
• Percent of Applicants Admitted: 33%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 630 / 720
• SAT Math: 640 / 740
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 93%
• Transfer-out Rate: 9%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 83%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 88%

Lehigh
• Percent of Applicants Admitted: 33%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 580 / 670
• SAT Math: 630 / 720
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 94%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 76%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 86%

School A has 100 spots open and 400 people apply.

School B has 1500 spots open and 2000 people apply.

Obviously school A is superior!!


Baffles my mind beyond all comprehension how alumni of school A crow incessantly about this pointless, stupid factoid.

Just another one of those things that they try to pretend like it matters.

[Go...gate]

The league would be crazy if they didn't make a seriosus attempt to land UNH and Maine. Both have a very "patriot" feel to them despite being public universities. UNH has its share of popped collars.

I have never heard that term before....

[Bogus Megapardus]

http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/112/88054f82e389a57552260371041502a8/l.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Please, (especially UNH & Maine people) don't take this as an attack, but I think comparing UNH and Maine to Patriot League schools is akin to the apples/oranges debate. They're not close to the same. Each school does a fine job serving its constituents, but they have different academic missions.

It is my opinion that if you change that to "out-of-state" admittance for UNH and Maine that the numbers change dramatically.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Looked good on him, though.



http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTeWfgCdWbIMODTNbd17n3g0hAuRtoO5 0-csvZUFvNy6yxjP5v1

[ngineer]

http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/112/88054f82e389a57552260371041502a8/l.jpg

It's a disease called 'collara'...(;-)

[Go...gate]

http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/112/88054f82e389a57552260371041502a8/l.jpg

That style was big in the 1980's - I don't see it much now....

[LUHawker]

It is my opinion that if you change that to "out-of-state" admittance for UNH and Maine that the numbers change dramatically.

Not sure why that matters, LFN.

So let's exclude Engish and History majors (just as examples) from Lehigh's admit stats and the numbers might change dramatically.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

UNH, Maine and Vermont have always had a private, liberal arts feel to them despite being major state research universities imo. Yes, the academic catalog will be a little more diverse. However, that doesn't change the fact that the "popular" majors, business, engineering, the sciences, education, etc. are first rate.

[Bill]

I agree with everyone :)

Seriously, if the AI is still going to be used, (and the academic snob in my wants it to :)) , some of the proposals with schools like UNH, Maine, JMU, etc. are downright absurd. It's apples and oranges, even though they both have seeds.

Mpls bison disliked the use of acceptance rates as a metric for school comparison. If that's the case, look further down on the list regarding test scores - they're not close. I'm not saying that one school is far superior, it is just a case of different academic missions...

[MplsBison]

I agree with everyone :)

Seriously, if the AI is still going to be used, (and the academic snob in my wants it to :)) , some of the proposals with schools like UNH, Maine, JMU, etc. are downright absurd. It's apples and oranges, even though they both have seeds.

Mpls bison disliked the use of acceptance rates as a metric for school comparison. If that's the case, look further down on the list regarding test scores - they're not close. I'm not saying that one school is far superior, it is just a case of different academic missions...

Yes the incoming test scores were higher.

That does not mean the quality of the undergraduate instruction is going to be better. It means that the people sitting next to you in class probably had good test scores in high school. If the instructor is determined to stick to a strict statistical distribution of grades, then you'll probably have a harder time obtaining a B or A grade. Then again, he/she could just as well say "you all earned 90% or more of the points available this semester, you're all smart, you all worked hard - you all get A's".


And in regards to you wanting to use the AI - Stanford is a better school than yours and doesn't use it. End.

[UNH Fanboi]

The PL is already slumming it by adding schollies. Given their Ivy League inferiority complex, it may take a while for them to come around to the idea of admitting public schools.

[RichH2]

Stanford not inan academic conference. Its standards are already better than most others in conference . The issue for them if we were to compareis the differential between them and the lower schools in Pac10 with substantially lower ad requiremnets.

In PL ,a league wide AI was introduced given the advantage Fordham had in recruitng since their ad requirements are lower than every other school. Personally I think it was an overreaction no longer necessary as long as each recruit class meets the individual AI of their own school

[van]

Bottom line, PL sponsors athletics for student athletes which "match" general student population with regard to academic qualifications. Call it snobbish if you wish.

Most football players (notice I did not say all) at a PL school could get accepted at any of the other PL school. Suspect that would not be the case for UNH or Maine football players. No knock on those schools as I am sure many UNH or Maine students could get accepted at a PL school. Just that they can (and do) accept quality football players that could not get accepted at a PL school.

[RichH2]

The PL is already slumming it by adding schollies. Given their Ivy League inferiority complex, it may take a while for them to come around to the idea of admitting public schools.

xawesomex Good point. Altho our experience with State schools did not go well

[MplsBison]

Stanford not inan academic conference. Its standards are already better than most others in conference . The issue for them if we were to compareis the differential between them and the lower schools in Pac10 with substantially lower ad requiremnets.

In PL ,a league wide AI was introduced given the advantage Fordham had in recruitng since their ad requirements are lower than every other school. Personally I think it was an overreaction no longer necessary as long as each recruit class meets the individual AI of their own school

Correct!!!!

Each school needs to police itself, per it's own "academic soul".


If it's obvious that a school is "cheating", then kick them out. League wide AI is a fantasy and it's crap.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not sure why that matters, LFN.

So let's exclude Engish and History majors (just as examples) from Lehigh's admit stats and the numbers might change dramatically.

It matters because a huge chunk of the football talent in Maine and UNH is not in-state talent. We're not talking about an academic index for English or History majors, we're talking about football players, and the truth is much of their rosters come from out-of-state. Academic and financial requirements for students are more stringent for out-of-state, so IMO it's those numbers that should be used.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I can see some questions if UNH and Maine would want to join for all sports. As an associate member in football I don't get the reasoning. Both of these teams would be/are considered great OOC games because they're schools Lehigh, Colgate, Holy Cross fans/alums identify with. In fact, I bet HC fans would love a yearly series with UNH. But they would detest them as a conference member because of academic snootiness? Seriously?

Imagine if Delaware showed interest? The Blue Hens visiting Goodman every other year?

[Bill]

Sure, these sound like great games. However, these schools and their associations are much greater than just football. Think school president / board of trustees / faculty level. Snobbishness is a part of these schools at some level, plain and simple. I can't see President Gast - insert PL president here - saying to the faculty and board "we're now affiliated with generic state football scholarship school X", and getting away with it. Especially if that school accepts 80% of its applicants and is generally "less competitive' academically. Unfortunately in the world, perception is important. Schools (like people) tend to be associated with who they "hang out with" (play on a regular basis). Sure, there are some exceptions, but...
We can argue whether or not that is a good thing, but it's the truth. If it wasn't, there would be no reason to even have a Patriot League, period. Some people would like that, but that is the situation we are currently in...

[RichH2]

UD and Nova every year would be magnificent

[bostonspider]

I think that everything will stay the same for a few years, but there is no way that ODU and JMU are in FCS for the long term. When they make their move, I think that it could be the end of the CAA football league. GSU is also likely looking to move up. I would think Maine and UNH would end up in a strengthened NEC. UD needs to decide if they will be moving up as well. That would leave UR, VU and W&M to move to the PL. Not sure what Towson would be interested in doing.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Sure, these sound like great games. However, these schools and their associations are much greater than just football. Think school president / board of trustees / faculty level. Snobbishness is a part of these schools at some level, plain and simple. I can't see President Gast - insert PL president here - saying to the faculty and board "we're now affiliated with generic state football scholarship school X", and getting away with it. Especially if that school accepts 80% of its applicants and is generally "less competitive' academically. Unfortunately in the world, perception is important. Schools (like people) tend to be associated with who they "hang out with" (play on a regular basis). Sure, there are some exceptions, but...
We can argue whether or not that is a good thing, but it's the truth. If it wasn't, there would be no reason to even have a Patriot League, period. Some people would like that, but that is the situation we are currently in...

You can say that, but we're still talking about an associate member. At the end of the day, how much does Colgate and Lafayette have in common with Georgetown and Fordham? IMO, very little. I think most would agree with me.

Also, American?

I bet there's more students applying to Lehigh and Delaware than Lehigh and Georgetown.

[lehighfball]

I bet there's more students applying to Lehigh and Delaware than Lehigh and Georgetown.

I disagree. Lehigh, like most Patriot League schools, is an ivy league reject school. Many of the students apply to at least one ivy. Delaware would be considered a safety school for those that apply.

[LUHawker]

It matters because a huge chunk of the football talent in Maine and UNH is not in-state talent. We're not talking about an academic index for English or History majors, we're talking about football players, and the truth is much of their rosters come from out-of-state. Academic and financial requirements for students are more stringent for out-of-state, so IMO it's those numbers that should be used.

I think you are thin-slicing here LFN. The AI's of the PL schools and UNH & Maine are not even close and that is the bar that is used, not a separate bar for football players that are from out of state.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I disagree. Lehigh, like most Patriot League schools, is an ivy league reject school. Many of the students apply to at least one ivy. Delaware would be considered a safety school for those that apply.

I agree with that to a point. There is a good portion of Lehigh applicants taking a flyer on one IL school as a reach. However, I think the ultimate decision comes down to Lehigh vs. Bucknell, Lafayette, Drexel, Villanova, PSU (for some), George Washington, UVA, Boston U., NYU, etc. With Pitt, Temple, UNH, Vermont, Syracuse, Duquesne, PSU(for some) Rutgers, Delaware etc. being the "safety" schools.

I would have to believe Georgetown shares its applicant pool with the Ivies, Notre Dame, Boston College, Duke, Carnegie Mellon, Stanford, Public Ivies (UVA, Michigan, Cal) etc.?

[Bogus Megapardus]

I agree with that to a point. There is a good portion of Lehigh applicants taking a flyer on one IL school as a reach. However, I think the ultimate decision comes down to Lehigh vs. Bucknell, Lafayette, Drexel, Villanova, PSU, George Washington, UVA, Boston U., NYU, etc. With Pitt, Temple, UNH, Vermont, Rutgers, Delaware etc. being the "safety" schools.

I would have to believe Georgetown shares its applicant pool with the Ivies, Notre Dame, Boston College, Carnegie Mellon, Stanford, Public Ivies (UVA, Michigan, Cal) etc.?


Common schools for all student applications, or only football players. If it's all students, the kids applying to Lafayette also apply mostly to places such as Swarthmore, RPI, Penn, Union, Cornell, Columbia and Stevens. It makes it hard to compare with respect to football applications.

[lehighfball]

I agree with that to a point. There is a good portion of Lehigh applicants taking a flyer on one IL school as a reach. However, I think the ultimate decision comes down to Lehigh vs. Bucknell, Lafayette, Drexel, Villanova, PSU, George Washington, UVA, Boston U., NYU, etc. With Pitt, Temple, UNH, Vermont, Rutgers, Delaware etc. being the "safety" schools.

I would have to believe Georgetown shares its applicant pool with the Ivies, Notre Dame, Boston College, Carnegie Mellon, Stanford, Public Ivies (UVA, Michigan, Cal) etc.?

Totally agree. Georgetown is the cream of the crop, academically, of the Patriot League. I would hate to see them leave.

[carney2]

Totally agree. Georgetown is the cream of the crop, academically, of the Patriot League. I would hate to see them leave.

I read most (no one can read all of this drivel) of what has been written on this board and handed out as press releases on the Patriot League approval of football scholarships. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did not notice anywhere that any school or schools are leaving. I also did not notice that any new Patriot League members have been admitted.

I think I'll leave now and find something meaningful to do.

[lehighfball]

I read most (no one can read all of this drivel) of what has been written on this board and handed out as press releases on the Patriot League approval of football scholarships. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did not notice anywhere that any school or schools are leaving. I also did not notice that any new Patriot League members have been admitted.

I think I'll leave now and find something meaningful to do.

Correct, no school is leaving NOW . Georgetown is staying put and is going to explore all its OPTIONS. That's why I stated that I would hate to see them leave.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Certain Brown-Panted elements here have called for a moratorium on the intra-box approach advocated by some towards expansion candidate consideration. Others, notably from Worcester, make persuasive arguments for keeping things north.

Fine. We can think not only outside of the box, but outside of the country. Why not add . . . . McGill University. A fine, world-renowned, and (mercifully) English-speaking establishment up there beneath la Croix du Mont-Royal in Montréal. The Redmen have a football team and coaches who (presumably) are intelligent enough to add a down to each series and trim ten yards off the playing field, eh?

OK, so the McGill Redmen went 0-9 last season . . . and the season before that as well. The Patriot League still has Georgetown around, at least for a little while, to show them how to keep a steady resolve when you get throttled in every single game, year after year.

I say we look into it, with a heavy dose of maple syrup, of course.

Crusaders - you take a right at Albany and drive straight for a while. You can't miss it. Canada is still part of New England, right?


EDIT - I almost forgot! Players and students may imbibe legally post game up there in the colonies. There are a great many excellent establishments in Montréal for doing so. Also, I believe that the age of consent is, like, 12. No pesky legal charges with which to concern oneself. All the more reason for a road trip.


Also, they'd immediately have the best PL stadium -

http://images.lpcdn.ca/435x290/201107/06/347222-stade-percival-molson-pas-rempli.jpg

[Wildcat80]

I think that everything will stay the same for a few years, but there is no way that ODU and JMU are in FCS for the long term. When they make their move, I think that it could be the end of the CAA football league. GSU is also likely looking to move up. I would think Maine and UNH would end up in a strengthened NEC. UD needs to decide if they will be moving up as well. That would leave UR, VU and W&M to move to the PL. Not sure what Towson would be interested in doing.

If Towson keeps winning they try to move up too.....alot of change coming.....Patriots are in the FCS playoff mix with this.

[bostonspider]

I wonder if Maryland could support 3 FBS teams. I imagine so, and it would make for nice local games with UMD and Navy. I think Unitas Stadium, is pretty easily expandable.

http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics32/800/OE/OEHONKSYGZNOHIS.20110725201045.jpg

[van]

I read most (no one can read all of this drivel) of what has been written on this board and handed out as press releases on the Patriot League approval of football scholarships. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did not notice anywhere that any school or schools are leaving. I also did not notice that any new Patriot League members have been admitted.

I think I'll leave now and find something meaningful to do.

Carney, the voice of reason, who's a thunk it!

[bostonspider]

Oh, and if McGill ever did want to join the NCAA and the PL, Molson Stadium would make a lovely addition at 25,000 seats.

http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/mtl/images/en/newser/2010/08/b.pelosse.13580509.jpg

[Bogus Megapardus]

Oh, and if McGill ever did want to join the NCAA and the PL, Molson Stadium would make a lovely addition at 25,000 seats.


Yes, it would. And it's on campus, too. Hoyas, take note - that's how you build a stadium in a densely-populated urban area with limited land resources. If a Canuck can figure it out . . . .

[Bogus Megapardus]

McGill played seven NCAA opponents in basketball this season, including U. Cincinnati, Albany and New Hampshire. McGill beat UNH and Niagara.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oh, and if McGill ever did want to join the NCAA and the PL, Molson Stadium would make a lovely addition at 25,000 seats.

http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/mtl/images/en/newser/2010/08/b.pelosse.13580509.jpg

You had me at "Molson Stadium" -- xlolx

[Go...gate]

I read most (no one can read all of this drivel) of what has been written on this board and handed out as press releases on the Patriot League approval of football scholarships. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did not notice anywhere that any school or schools are leaving. I also did not notice that any new Patriot League members have been admitted.

I think I'll leave now and find something meaningful to do.


Get out the Jim Beam. I'll have one with you....

[Go...gate]

I wonder if Maryland could support 3 FBS teams. I imagine so, and it would make for nice local games with UMD and Navy. I think Unitas Stadium, is pretty easily expandable.

http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics32/800/OE/OEHONKSYGZNOHIS.20110725201045.jpg

I like Unitas Stadium and I am sometimes troubled about the criticism about Towson. Towson helped us keep the League together in the mid-1990's. We owe them a debt of gratitude.

[van]

:D Unitas stadium has been good to us! I enjoyed my visit in December.

[Go...gate]

Certain Brown-Panted elements here have called for a moratorium on the intra-box approach advocated by some towards expansion candidate consideration. Others, notably from Worcester, make persuasive arguments for keeping things north.

Fine. We can think not only outside of the box, but outside of the country. Why not add . . . . McGill University. A fine, world-renowned, and (mercifully) English-speaking establishment up there beneath la Croix du Mont-Royal in Montréal. The Redmen have a football team and coaches who (presumably) are intelligent enough to add a down to each series and trim ten yards off the playing field, eh?

OK, so the McGill Redmen went 0-9 last season . . . and the season before that as well. The Patriot League still has Georgetown around, at least for a little while, to show them how to keep a steady resolve when you get throttled in every single game, year after year.

I say we look into it, with a heavy dose of maple syrup, of course.

Crusaders - you take a right at Albany and drive straight for a while. You can't miss it. Canada is still part of New England, right?


EDIT - I almost forgot! Players and students may imbibe legally post game up there in the colonies. There are a great many excellent establishments in Montréal for doing so. Also, I believe that the age of consent is, like, 12. No pesky legal charges with which to concern oneself. All the more reason for a road trip.


Also, they'd immediately have the best PL stadium -

http://images.lpcdn.ca/435x290/201107/06/347222-stade-percival-molson-pas-rempli.jpg

McGill can always schedule Columbia if they need a win.... ; )

[Go...gate]

The University of Havana would also be a good expansion candidate for those December games.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The University of Havana would also be a good expansion candidate for those December games.

Could we still be the "Patriot" League?

[Wildcat80]

I like Unitas Stadium and I am sometimes troubled about the criticism about Towson. Towson helped us keep the League together in the mid-1990's. We owe them a debt of gratitude.

The new Towson has our total respect! Coaching DOES make a difference!

[The Historian]

The University of Havana would also be a good expansion candidate for those December games.

I think Tokyo University and other Japanese universities have teams (probably club level). They certainly must have high AIs.

[Go...gate]

Could we still be the "Patriot" League?

Of course! We can have the Benedict Arnold Division and the Che Guavara Division.

[Go...gate]

I think Tokyo University and other Japanese universities have teams (probably club level). They certainly must have high AIs.

Oxford?
Cambridge?
London School of Economics?
The Sorbonne?

[LehighU11]

Could we still be the "Patriot" League?

I believe that'd make us the "Pinhead" League, at least in Bill O'Reilly's world. We could always pursue Columbia, the "University of Havana North," according to the Fox News pundit.

[Pard4Life]

That style was big in the 1980's - I don't see it much now....

!!!!! Go gate, you need to get out more...

[Pard4Life]

In reality, the Patriot League will probably end up adding Marist and Fairfield within the next two years.

[Seawolf97]

The University of Havana would also be a good expansion candidate for those December games.

And an early baseball and lax season -LOL. Think of the baseball recruits !

[Go...gate]

Fidel loves baseball, after all. We can teach him Lacrosse... : )

[Go...gate]

In reality, the Patriot League will probably end up adding Marist and Fairfield within the next two years.

If Fairfield still had a football program, I would agree with you, but it seems they are really aiming higher in basketball. They paid Sydney Johnson a small fortune to get him to jump from Princeton to be head men's coach, and they gave access to that new arena. Why would they bring back football?

[Pard4Life]

I didn't say they would bring back football... they would be an all-sports addition to bring membership up to ten. Both are quality basketball schools, though someone argued here that the PL would be a step down for Marist women's hoops. But hey wasn't leaving the CAA such a move for American?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Loyola (MD) would be a much better addition for the PL in my opinion than Fairfield, for two reasons: they would bring a lot to the table in lacrosse and could also be a potential football school down the road. Fairfield will never have football again, after blaming everyone but themselves (Title IX, the Patriot League) for killing their non-scholarship football program.

[Bogus Megapardus]

But hey wasn't leaving the CAA such a move for American?

I'm not entirely certain that anybody at American University (save for a select few in the AD's office) knows that they are in the Patriot League. A typical AU student would have absolutely no idea whatsoever about the Eagles' league affiliation.

This includes the fans who attend the games. And probably most of the players themselves. I hear that three out of every four guys on the roster think that they're still in the CAA (the ones from Estonia were told that they play in the ACC, and they don't know any better). American is that much of an outlier.

So it seems to me that at American, they have way to many institutions to occupy and political candidates to support to give a damn what conference they play in. One's as good as the other.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Fairfield will never have football again, after blaming everyone but themselves (Title IX, the Patriot League) for killing their non-scholarship football program.

How did the Patriot League kill Fairfield's football program? Or more aptly, why does anyone at Fairfield think that the PL killed football?

And while you're fielding questions here, where is Fairfield again? Do PL schools have any kind of football or other sports history with them, to the extent that fans and alums would care?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Loyola

There always have been two Loyolas - one in Chicago and the one up there on Charles St. in Baltimore, just above Hopkins.

Which is the better Loyola?

[aceinthehole]

How did the Patriot League kill Fairfield's football program? Or more aptly, why does anyone at Fairfield think that the PL killed football?

And while you're fielding questions here, where is Fairfield again? Do PL schools have any kind of football or other sports history with them, to the extent that fans and alums would care?

I don't know what the PL has to do with Fairfield football. Fairfield played club football from 1966-1986.

They started varisty play in the non-schorship MAAC in 1996. They won the MAAC once in 1998. They dropped football after the 2002 season.

They were 0-3 vs. Fordham, 0-2 vs. Holy Cross, and 2-4 vs. Georgetown.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/discontinued/f/fairfield/index.php

The Stags also dropped Men's Hockey and have since put all their priority on men's basketball.

Fairfield was never a ready or willing to play PL football, so I'm not sure why anyone would think FU would consider PL football it in their future.

[Fordham]

There always have been two Loyolas - one in Chicago and the one up there on Charles St. in Baltimore, just above Hopkins.

Which is the better Loyola?

They're both flagships

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't know what the PL has to do with Fairfield football. Fairfield played club football from 1966-1986.

They started varisty play in the non-schorship MAAC in 1996. They won the MAAC once in 1998. They dropped football after the 2002 season.

Fairfield's AD, in an interview after the Stags pulled the plug on their football program (of which the link escapes me), blamed the loss of non-scholarship football in the Northeast on (paraphrasing here) "schools that used to compete as non-scholarship, but don't anymore". Resemble any league in particular?

It was in reality, of course, simply an excuse to kill football in order to funnel more dollars into basketball. How's that working out for them?

[Pard4Life]

How did the Patriot League kill Fairfield's football program? Or more aptly, why does anyone at Fairfield think that the PL killed football?

And while you're fielding questions here, where is Fairfield again? Do PL schools have any kind of football or other sports history with them, to the extent that fans and alums would care?

LFN is drumming up conspiracy theories and stretching the truth again just so he can have something to write about and make us read his blog.

Fairfield is in Fairfield, CT... which is next to Stamford, CT. Maybe two hours from Worcester.

I agree Fairfield is not bringing back football but they would make a nice all-sports addition. And they play lacrosse. Loyola... don't know much, but I doubt they'd add football.

Hopkins is the ultimate target here... that would defintetly keep the PL together, but they are more of a research institution I gather.

[DFW HOYA]

There always have been two Loyolas - one in Chicago and the one up there on Charles St. in Baltimore, just above Hopkins.

There are four.

http://www.loyola.edu/
http://www.luc.edu/
http://www.loyno.edu/
http://www.lmu.edu/

[RichH2]

Stony Brook for all sports may be an option. Academics?

[Pard4Life]

They're both flagships

Two flagships? Just like how the NYS system has four? Lol...

[Bogus Megapardus]

They're both flagships

xlolxxrotatehxxnodx

Rep points for you!

[Go...gate]

There are four.

http://www.loyola.edu/
http://www.luc.edu/
http://www.loyno.edu/
http://www.lmu.edu/

The three best Jesuit schools in America are already in the league. Hell, maybe what we should do is pass the hat and each kick in five scholarships to Georgetown so they will have at least thirty.... : )

[Go...gate]

Bottom line is that I cannot see Marist, Fairfield or Loyola (MD) in the conference in light of yesterday's announcement.

[TheValleyRaider]

Bottom line is that I cannot see Marist, Fairfield or Loyola (MD) in the conference in light of yesterday's announcement.

If Fairfield and Loyola weren't prepared to make the financial commitment to even having a football team, and Marist is comfortable spending at PFL levels rather than PL levels, I don't know why the League would even be interested in them. And that was before yesterday. It's one thing to maintain a relationship with a prior member (Georgetown) while offering opportunities that member is not prepared to take. It's another thing entirely to bring in members who already do not appear prepared to take that step xtwocentsx

[ngineer]

There always have been two Loyolas - one in Chicago and the one up there on Charles St. in Baltimore, just above Hopkins.

Which is the better Loyola?

Actually, I think there is at least a third one down "Nawlins" way in "Looziana"...(;-)

[ngineer]

LFN is drumming up conspiracy theories and stretching the truth again just so he can have something to write about and make us read his blog.

Fairfield is in Fairfield, CT... which is next to Stamford, CT. Maybe two hours from Worcester.

I agree Fairfield is not bringing back football but they would make a nice all-sports addition. And they play lacrosse. Loyola... don't know much, but I doubt they'd add football.

Hopkins is the ultimate target here... that would defintetly keep the PL together, but they are more of a research institution I gather.

Can't have any of that here!!!xrolleyesxxrolleyesx

[Go...gate]

If Fairfield and Loyola weren't prepared to make the financial commitment to even having a football team, and Marist is comfortable spending at PFL levels rather than PL levels, I don't know why the League would even be interested in them. And that was before yesterday. It's one thing to maintain a relationship with a prior member (Georgetown) while offering opportunities that member is not prepared to take. It's another thing entirely to bring in members who already do not appear prepared to take that step xtwocentsx

Right. And, consistent with this decision, there will be no Division III schools moving up to the PL either, IMO. So the pool of "possible" new members is now pretty clear.

[TheValleyRaider]

Right. And, consistent with this decision, there will be no Division III schools moving up to the PL either, IMO. So the pool of "possible" new members is now pretty clear.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a D-III move-up, certainly if they were willing to take the step up to scholarship D-I football. The real problem there, I think, is that the transition would take way too long for someone like Hopkins or RPI to actually become a legitimate member of the conference

[slostang]

Please, (especially UNH & Maine people) don't take this as an attack, but I think comparing UNH and Maine to Patriot League schools is akin to the apples/oranges debate. They're not close to the same. Each school does a fine job serving its constituents, but they have different academic missions. Here's the 2010 admit data ( I included Colgate and Lehigh, the PL's most successful playoff schools):
UNH
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 73%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 490 / 590
• SAT Math: 510 / 620
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 88%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 56%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 75%
Maine
• Percent of Applicants Admitted: 80%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 470 / 580
• SAT Math: 480 / 590
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 79%
• Transfer Out Rate: 25%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 34%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 57%

Colgate:
• Percent of Applicants Admitted: 33%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 630 / 720
• SAT Math: 640 / 740
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 93%
• Transfer-out Rate: 9%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 83%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 88%

Lehigh
• Percent of Applicants Admitted: 33%
• Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
• SAT Critical Reading: 580 / 670
• SAT Math: 630 / 720
• First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 94%
• 4-Year Graduation Rate: 76%
• 6-Year Graduation Rate: 86%

Cal Poly had over 43,000 apps for about 3,800 spots this year.

[van]

Cal Poly had over 43,000 apps for about 3,800 spots this year.

There are 29 days in Feb this year.

[Bogus Megapardus]

There are 29 days in Feb this year.


There are 28 days in February this year as well.

I miss the counting thread, don't you?

[Doc QB]

LFN is drumming up conspiracy theories and stretching the truth again just so he can have something to write about and make us read his blog.

Fairfield is in Fairfield, CT... which is next to Stamford, CT. Maybe two hours from Worcester.

I agree Fairfield is not bringing back football but they would make a nice all-sports addition. And they play lacrosse. Loyola... don't know much, but I doubt they'd add football.

Hopkins is the ultimate target here... that would defintetly keep the PL together, but they are more of a research institution I gather.

It would appear as a good fit if the JHU guys were interested in that kind of move...but at the football golf outing just a few years ago, I asked JHU AD Tom Calder if it would ever be on the table. He had no hesitation in saying NO. Since then, they have had a really succesful run in the Div III arena with great records and playoff appearances. But it all comes down to money and no desire down there to compete in anything but DIII, except for lax.

He also explained how there is just no real cash for anything other than the two lacrosse programs, and it would be very difficult to raise it through the football alums to make up what would probably be at least 3.5 million a year for the scholarships alone. The football program probably operates on less than a quarter million and none of it is aid. The facilities would not be a hold up, just the extra cash, and an additional amount for women as well (and really even less ability to raise that for the additional title 9 women's compliment of sports aid awards). None would come from the schools general funds. The best they could do is operate like Georgetown using normal financial aid for the football players and hope they target kids who need a bunch of need based aid and can play FCS ball. That obviously has not worked out well currently for G'town historically, and using that aid paradigm while others in the leauge go full scholarship is not a recipe for successful competitive league expansion or successful jump from DIII.

I would LOVE this fit wise, but it doesn't seem to be in the cards for them to jump for even football inclusion let alone an all-sports move.

Hate to say it, but with the way the landscape is changing, I dont think adding any DIII teams, NEC teams is the answer for expansion. It is probably way more likely that as the ODUs, JMUs, Georgia States (UDel??) move from CAA down the line, some pretty good CAA teams could want a home. Re-alignment and the aspirations of those teams (and maybe some of the SoCon giants, ASU) will have better expansion possibilities for the outliers in the next five years. No reason to be hasty with expansion, some of those guys will be avail in some form or another, and at the very least, the Patriot League may now be in a position to be a viable candidate for those like-minded institutions left behind from FBS defections OR PL members could be attractive candidates for them. It could go both ways easily, and at least now, we likely wont be cast in as negative a light given the new stance on scholarshiops.

Should be damn fun.

[Bogus Megapardus]

If Hopkins, RPI and U. Rochester had been interested in moving up, we would have remained non-scholarship and Big Ivy would have been pleased a punch. We'd then have seen a return to exclusive Ivy/Patriot scheduling and things would have rolled, on much as they have, for another 30 years.

I don't know if such discussions were entertained, expect from a post on the RPI hockey board from someone who was involved in a meeting there and wrote that the idea (at least from RPI's end) was under consideration.

We're now beyond any notion of adding RPI or Rochester. Hopkins comes in only is there's pressure (either officially or ethically) to move all sports to DI if they want to continue full scholarship lax. In that case, I'd say that the PL would be 95% certainty.

I think we're beyond any notion of adding Marist, too. The Red Foxes just don't have to money or internal will to go to full scholarship football, I don't think. The facilities are a little better than Georgetown's, but I think they like the PFL there, so why move? How would it help them besides costing a lot of money?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In regards to D-III teams, once upon a time there was a real possibility that the "Dayton Rule" might be enforced on programs other than just basketball, which forced Dayton, Butler, Valparaiso, and others to become D-I in all sports. Had the NCAA done so, RPI and Hopkins would have been faced with the prospect of needing to have a place to compete in D-I, and the PL would have been the only logical fit.

Instead, not only have they grandfathered these hockey/lax teams in D-I, they've made it insanely difficult to migrate up even from D-III to D-II, making it at best an onerous exercise.

[Bogus Megapardus]

they've made it insanely difficult to migrate up even from D-III to D-II, making it at best an onerous exercise.


Is there a different rule for an institution that already has full scholarship Division I sports (like Hopkins lax and RPI hockey?)

[danefan]

Is there a different rule for an institution that already has full scholarship Division I sports (like Hopkins lax and RPI hockey?)

Nope

[van]

Seems pretty clear that the best bet for expansion comes from some perturbation of the CAA which makes someone like Nova or W&M to want a conference change. Could happen, but I think DocQB is right, nothing in the near term.

[Pard4Life]

I still say the most logical but insane expansion to the PL is adding those small, private schools in the SoCon, along with UR, WM, Nova for football.

We are almost certainly going to get an associate member for football since there is no viable target for all-sports and football. I agree Marist football would not work for the PL, just like VMI wouldn't. Who... is... out there??

This is like a search for E-T... (not the Express-Times).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I still say the most logical but insane expansion to the PL is adding those small, private schools in the SoCon, along with UR, WM, Nova for football.

We are almost certainly going to get an associate member for football since there is no viable target for all-sports and football. I agree Marist football would not work for the PL, just like VMI wouldn't. Who... is... out there??

This is like a search for E-T... (not the Express-Times).

How quickly people throw the possibility of publics under the bus.

[Bill]

LFN

I couldn't resist :)

William & Mary is a public school !

[Bogus Megapardus]

I was just looking over VMI. It wouldn't necessarily be a terrible fit, but it wouldn't do much for women's sports. I think there's something like 50 women in the entire school. They do have the population, endowment and alumni support to fit in the PL. I'd think that Army and Navy could veto the move, but I'm not sure why they would - unless there's some lingering animosity over the Southern Hostilities.

[Bogus Megapardus]

LFN

I couldn't resist :)

William & Mary is a public school !

I always thought it was somewhat independent. Does W&M have a board of trustees? Are they state-appointed, or are they self-governing? Political appointees, like the ones that completely ruined Rutgers, which once enjoyed a reputation similar to W&M? That makes a really huge difference in PL circles.

[Pard4Life]

LFN

I couldn't resist :)

William & Mary is a public school !

That bump you just felt on your charter bus was LFN...

UNH and Maine would be good additions but their academic profiles are not close to the PL schools. I don't have a problem partnering with them, but it's hard to see the Presidents acquiescing to this expansion after agreeing to uphold the AI. This would be a step towards "big athletic" as detractors would fear. Towson was accepted for survival. Now we are looking to expand and consider like-minded schools.

[Pard4Life]

I always thought it was somewhat independent. Does W&M have a board of trustees? Are they state-appointed, or are they self-governing? Political appointees, like the ones that completely ruined Rutgers, which once enjoyed a reputation similar to W&M? That makes a really huge difference in PL circles.

Don't know the governance of WM, but I know there is a rate for in-state tuition. Rutgers was ruined and it's hard to believe they were on the same level. Would love to kick their butts... or just a 21-20 win...

[TheValleyRaider]

How quickly people throw the possibility of publics under the bus.

If the League is insistent on maintaining the AI, the difference between most public schools' profile and that of the current League membership becomes an issue. I suppose they could modify the AI for public schools somewhat, but then what would be the point of having the AI if you're just going to make exceptions left and right?

Unless you're hearing something about the League talking to UNH or other public schools, I'm not sure why that would be likely

[RichH2]

Is W&M situation similar to Temple's quasi-public?

[DFW HOYA]

If the League is insistent on maintaining the AI, then eliminate any CAA school. Outside the Ivy, PL, and (maybe) Stanford, most Division I programs are recruiting well below 1100 on the SAT as a competitive necessity. The idea that Richmond or W&M will join a league that will force it to abandon its in-state talent and lower SAT recruiting for so-called Ivy-level recruits will be utterly rejected by their fan bases, much as it did when Richmond helped force out its president when floating a suggestion for UR to join the PL.

Don't be surprised if the long awaited expansion candidate is instead someone like Marist.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the League is insistent on maintaining the AI, then eliminate any CAA school. Outside the Ivy, PL, and (maybe) Stanford, most Division I programs are recruiting well below 1100 on the SAT as a competitive necessity. The idea that Richmond or W&M will join a league that will force it to abandon its in-state talent and lower SAT recruiting for so-called Ivy-level recruits will be utterly rejected by their fan bases, much as it did when Richmond helped force out its president when floating a suggestion for UR to join the PL.

Don't be surprised if the long awaited expansion candidate is instead someone like Marist.

This is not true in any sense.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Richmond helped force out its president when floating a suggestion for UR to join the PL.

And the Richmond fans and alums ought to be congratulated for taking a stand. I'd have joined with them had I gone to Richmond.

Lafayette did much the same thing - it forced out a president - the infamous Arthur Rothkopf - who wanted Lafayette to become "like Swarthmore" and in athletics, to join the NESCAC in Division III.

It will take quite a few years of teams like Lehigh and Colgate beating up on Richmond, Delaware and Villanova to convince anyone connected with Richmond to think the PL is a good idea. Who can blame them? But we have to start somewhere - and it now looks as if the PL has taken that first step.

[DFW HOYA]

This is not true in any sense.

Which one--that CAA schools recruit below 1100, that Marist is a potential expansion candidate, or both?

[RichH2]

And the Richmond fans and alums ought to be congratulated for taking a stand. I'd have joined with them had I gone to Richmond.

Lafayette did much the same thing - it forced out a president - the infamous Arthur Rothkopf - who wanted Lafayette to become "like Swarthmore" and in athletics, to join the NESCAC in Division III.

It will take quite a few years of teams like Lehigh and Colgate beating up on Richmond, Delaware and Villanova to convince anyone connected with Richmond to think the PL is a good idea. Who can blame them? But we have to start somewhere - and it now looks as if the PL has taken that first step.

Yup, what he said. When and if PL is no longer viewed as a step down the possibiltyof Nova et al becomes much more real

[colorless raider]

You are so negative and "yes" I understand why.

[colorless raider]

sorry was responding to DFW.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And the Richmond fans and alums ought to be congratulated for taking a stand. I'd have joined with them had I gone to Richmond.

Lafayette did much the same thing - it forced out a president - the infamous Arthur Rothkopf - who wanted Lafayette to become "like Swarthmore" and in athletics, to join the NESCAC in Division III.

It will take quite a few years of teams like Lehigh and Colgate beating up on Richmond, Delaware and Villanova to convince anyone connected with Richmond to think the PL is a good idea. Who can blame them? But we have to start somewhere - and it now looks as if the PL has taken that first step.

Yes, by Lehigh beating Towson! xlolx

[DFW HOYA]

Not trying to be negative at all. CAA fans are distrustful of the PL as a step down from where they are now. That can change in the future, but it's a perception the PL must overcome.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Which one--that CAA schools recruit below 1100, that Marist is a potential expansion candidate, or both?

No question some CAA schools recruit below 1100, and no question Marist is a potential expansion candidate. But not every CAA school recruits below 1100.

"The idea that Richmond or W&M will join a league that will force it to abandon its in-state talent and lower SAT recruiting for so-called Ivy-level recruits will be utterly rejected by their fan bases" I also don't believe to be true either. As long as these schools can keep playing FBS schools, keep playing in-state rivals, keep offering their scholarships and keep competing for national championships, I don't see where this groundswell of public opinion is going to happen.

[carney2]

INSTRUCTION MANUAL FOR ALL GRADUATES OF PATRIOT LEAGUE SCHOOLS AND OTHERS INTERESTED IN PATRIOT LEAGUE FOOTBALL:

1. Bend forward at the hips as far as you can.

2. Reach to the rear between your legs.

3. Grab both of your ears.

4. With one violent motion pull hard and extract your head from your anal cavity.

5. When you are able to speak repeat these words. Make it your mantra.

Ain't gonna be no Wildcats ('nova variety), Spiders or Tribe in the Patriot League!

[Doc QB]

And the Richmond fans and alums ought to be congratulated for taking a stand. I'd have joined with them had I gone to Richmond.

Lafayette did much the same thing - it forced out a president - the infamous Arthur Rothkopf - who wanted Lafayette to become "like Swarthmore" and in athletics, to join the NESCAC in Division III.

It will take quite a few years of teams like Lehigh and Colgate beating up on Richmond, Delaware and Villanova to convince anyone connected with Richmond to think the PL is a good idea. Who can blame them? But we have to start somewhere - and it now looks as if the PL has taken that first step.

Word up.

[ngineer]

Not trying to be negative at all. CAA fans are distrustful of the PL as a step down from where they are now. That can change in the future, but it's a perception the PL must overcome.

Oh, it will take a few years. Four just to get up to speed with all 60 scholarships or whatever each school decides, and a 'wait and see' attitude to see if it sticks and how much 'better' we become. So I would suspect 3-5 years before any 'exploratory' discussions occur.

[LUHawker]

Oh, it will take a few years. Four just to get up to speed with all 60 scholarships or whatever each school decides, and a 'wait and see' attitude to see if it sticks and how much 'better' we become. So I would suspect 3-5 years before any 'exploratory' discussions occur.

I don't think it will take that long for real discussions to occur. Now that PL football can offer schollies and Fordham is staying in the fold (regardless of what G'Town does), the PL looks like an island of stability in a sea of turmoil and change in college athletics. The techtonic plates of conference shifting have not yet settled and there will be further shake within both the FBS and FCS levels. The forces and movements around some of the schools that may be potential fits for the PL look to be some of the most active in the next couple of years. Let's take the CAA, where JMU, ODU, Villanova and Ga. State have their sights set on FBS as well as SoCon members App St. and Ga. Southern, potentially. I think there is a good chance that the CAA experiences further disruption over the next couple of years. In the last 3 years, they've lost UMass to the FBS, almost lost VU this past year, seen URI defect to the NEC and seen Northeastern and Hofstra drop out. UNH and Maine are northern outposts in an increasingly southern-oriented conference. UD could also be contemplating a step up. Target schools like W&M and Richmond may find themselves uncomfortable in a landscape that could possibly see 2 teams (notice I said, possibly) from the north link up else where (NEC, new A-East, possibly PL), 2 or 3 or 4 jump to FBS (JMU, UD, VU, ODU). While all of this happening is unlikely, it certainly could create an environment where they would rather join a stable conference of like-minded universities and colleges. How about the Big South? If there is a new A-East or the NEC steps up to 60+ schollies, does SB go there, while Coastal Carolina goes to the SoCon to plug the hole from losing App St. or GSU? Maybe. So VMI may suddenly need a home. I think Wofford and Furman are too far south as the league is currently constructed, but not if the PL gets large enough to have a North and a South (for you Civil War buffs, a Blue division and a Gray Division). Most of this is pie-in-the-sky, admittedly, but the point is that there are many moving pieces that may suddenly make a move the PL much more attractive (and palatable) than it would have been 5 days ago.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Of course the other thing to do is just say the heck with it - merge the Patriot and America East. There might be a slough-off or two (UMBC, Hartford, perhaps) but whatever. All the America East football schools would then have to play in their own conference. Plus, if American U. disappeared somewhere during the merger, nobody would even notice.

[maristdb89]

If the League is insistent on maintaining the AI, then eliminate any CAA school. Outside the Ivy, PL, and (maybe) Stanford, most Division I programs are recruiting well below 1100 on the SAT as a competitive necessity. The idea that Richmond or W&M will join a league that will force it to abandon its in-state talent and lower SAT recruiting for so-called Ivy-level recruits will be utterly rejected by their fan bases, much as it did when Richmond helped force out its president when floating a suggestion for UR to join the PL.

Don't be surprised if the long awaited expansion candidate is instead someone like Marist.

Sorry, but that's not going to happen. We're fine where we are.

[MplsBison]

So I asked this question and it was mostly ignored.

Are PL classes really going to be more talented now? Are they actually going to try to recruit more talented players who aren't already good enough to make it into the schools on their own?


Or is this nothing more than a way for PL coaches to have a realistic chance to out-recruit Ivy schools on kids who are trying to decide between IL and PL schools?

[EB59]

Honestly, I don't think that as long as the PL continues their AI requirement, the schollies will significanly imporve the quality of the players in th eleague, nor will it eliminate Gtown's ability to compete in this league. PL schools will still be prohibited from recruiting the vast majority of the top FCS players / bottom FBS players that currently go to the MAC, SunBelt, CAA, SoCon, Etc. LH and Gate already gave nearly 100% aide through grants to FB players and the same is true of the top Ivy's. Georgetown will however, need to increase their financial support of football and make more grant / aide money available to the football team to remain competitive over the long run of the next 10 years. Schollies to AI qualified players will not in my opinon change the calibar of the player in the next 5 - 10 years, they will still all for the most part be PL and IL candidates - NOT CAA or Conf USA for that matter.

[ngineer]

I don't think it will take that long for real discussions to occur. Now that PL football can offer schollies and Fordham is staying in the fold (regardless of what G'Town does), the PL looks like an island of stability in a sea of turmoil and change in college athletics. The techtonic plates of conference shifting have not yet settled and there will be further shake within both the FBS and FCS levels. The forces and movements around some of the schools that may be potential fits for the PL look to be some of the most active in the next couple of years. Let's take the CAA, where JMU, ODU, Villanova and Ga. State have their sights set on FBS as well as SoCon members App St. and Ga. Southern, potentially. I think there is a good chance that the CAA experiences further disruption over the next couple of years. In the last 3 years, they've lost UMass to the FBS, almost lost VU this past year, seen URI defect to the NEC and seen Northeastern and Hofstra drop out. UNH and Maine are northern outposts in an increasingly southern-oriented conference. UD could also be contemplating a step up. Target schools like W&M and Richmond may find themselves uncomfortable in a landscape that could possibly see 2 teams (notice I said, possibly) from the north link up else where (NEC, new A-East, possibly PL), 2 or 3 or 4 jump to FBS (JMU, UD, VU, ODU). While all of this happening is unlikely, it certainly could create an environment where they would rather join a stable conference of like-minded universities and colleges. How about the Big South? If there is a new A-East or the NEC steps up to 60+ schollies, does SB go there, while Coastal Carolina goes to the SoCon to plug the hole from losing App St. or GSU? Maybe. So VMI may suddenly need a home. I think Wofford and Furman are too far south as the league is currently constructed, but not if the PL gets large enough to have a North and a South (for you Civil War buffs, a Blue division and a Gray Division). Most of this is pie-in-the-sky, admittedly, but the point is that there are many moving pieces that may suddenly make a move the PL much more attractive (and palatable) than it would have been 5 days ago.

My comment about 3-5 years was all things being equal. Obviously, if a conference, such as the CAA would blow up, then several of the schools could look toward the PL, Richmond in particular, Bill & Mary another, and Villanova once reality sets in and they realize they should not trying going 'big time'....again. Same for the SoCon. Furman and Wofford would be very nice fits for the PL, although the travel if no 'southern division' with a Richmond, W&M etc. nearby would be difficult.

[ngineer]

So I asked this question and it was mostly ignored.

Are PL classes really going to be more talented now? Are they actually going to try to recruit more talented players who aren't already good enough to make it into the schools on their own?


Or is this nothing more than a way for PL coaches to have a realistic chance to out-recruit Ivy schools on kids who are trying to decide between IL and PL schools?

There won't be a huge difference. There should be a difference in being able to recruit a handful of kids each year that we would otherwise lose to UNH, Villanova, Penn, Princeton. Should also help a bit in a little more a bit more depth, talent-wise. A 'huge' jump, no; but we should become more competitive on a consistent basis, nationally, as opposed to 'every so often' as Lehigh has been the past two years, Holy Cross the year before that, Lafayette 5 years ago, and Colgate in 2003.