Patriot League Recruiting - LEHIGH

[carney2]

LEHIGH – 48 REVISED

Apologies to all. The Committee is guilty of a rush to judgment and a “let's get this over with” mentality. Thanks and well done to Lehigh poster van and a few others of the Mountain Hawk persuasion for getting this back on track.

Even with the revisions The Committee does not consider this a Patsy Points total to get excited about. These recent championship teams were built on classes with Points totals in the 70s and 80s:
Class of 2012 = 74
Class of 2013 = 70
Class of 2014 = 81
That's an average of 75.

Andy Coen offers the same explanation this year as last: the playoff run interfered with recruiting. It must be true or he wouldn't say it. The Committee, on the other hand, asks why all of that on the field success isn't contributing to better recruiting. Is there trouble in paradise? Consider:
This appears to be the second consecutive questionable recruiting class.
Class of 2015 = 43
Class of 2016 = 48
That's an average of 46.
The rumors that Lehigh could not close the deal with recruits in the majority of head-to-head competitions with Patriot League rivals is apparently true.
Some of the Lehigh faithful are proposing that Coen and company intentionally tanked this year's recruiting effort (and last?) to clear the roster for scholarships. These sons of Nostradamus also propose that the Patriots threw the Super Bowl to create a revenge factor for 2012.

Lehigh appears to have come up with some kids who will contribute for the next 4 years. It just does not appear that there are enough of them to guarantee the Hawks as a contender for four years.

THE GOOD
- Andy Coen and his staff recruited to their needs. The Lehigh fans who supplied the Needs analysis for The Committee (see below) did not totally agree with the coaches who said they were after LBs, but the fans' Needs were taken care of.
- Maybe, just maybe, Lehigh has the RB that they've been lacking for so long.

THE BAD
- Quality. Not what the faithful are used to seeing.
- Size. Not much. Some questions being raised about some of the size information on the Lehigh press release. (Ed. Note: Problems in original Lehigh press release have subsequently been confirmed and, we hope, all appropriate corrections have been made and accounted for in this rating.)

QUALITY = 14: 10 (45%) are Rated, one an unconfirmed 2-star.

CLASS SIZE = 4: 22 recruits is not large by recent Patriot League standards, but it isn't a disaster.

DISTRIBUTION =7: In his press release, Andy Coen said that this recruiting class “addresses every position.” A recruit or 2 played QB in high school, but none are listed as QB recruits in the press release. Andy is technically stating the facts, I guess, but The Committee deals with the press release, and Lehigh left one Distribution point on the table.

SPEED = 11: Some kids with speed, but Lehigh perhaps caught a 2 Patsy Point break because of the methodology. Rivals gives speed data in a rounded format and it appears that in two cases data carried one more decimal place would have been slightly slower. The Committee's position is to use the better rating, speed, whatever, no matter what, so the Rivals numbers prevailed.

TRIGGER = 0: No QB = no Trigger Points..

JUMBO = 3: 5 OL and 3 DL recruits; only 4 Jumbos.

NEEDS = 9 (of 12):
OL = 4 (of 5): 5 recruits, 3 Jumbos, 3 Rated, none with star ratings. The Committee went round and round on this one. Did they do enough to merit 4 Points?
DL = 2 (of 4): 3 recruits, 1 Jumbo, 1 Rated, none with star ratings. This one was even more hotly debated: 1 Point vs. 2.
RB = 3 (of 3): 2 recruits, 1 Rated, an unconfirmed 2-star, the other with some decent credentials. Could be that the Hawks are set at RB for a while.

COMMITTEE ADJUSTMENTS = O
Some are saying that his group is better than this rating indicates. The Committee, on the other hand, notes at least 3 places where the Hawks may have caught a rating break, and determined that no adjustments are necessary.

THE RATINGS RACE WITH 4 TO GO:

Lafayette 67
Lehigh 48
Fordham 47

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think they're getting ready for scholarships. If they can get 4 or 5 of these kids to contribute in 4 years it will be a win imo.

The coaching grumblings might have chased off a couple as well.

[RichH2]

TE is 227 not 170,a typo. Actually did not expect to even get 40. Cheap shot at my saving slots speculation on LU board. Seems a bit much to blame lack of recruiting success on your own team's on the field success. Andy seems to be saying we need a couple of bad years in order to recruit better. As with last yr's class ,its not bad has some very good players but it is not what many would expect from such a recently successful program. Well we are left with a teaser of 4-6more kids. Perhaps. We'll see how this and last year's class play out

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's a good a time as any to comment on the "quality rating" of the Patsy Points - meaning, if you've paid for/deserved a rating from Rivals, who is notorious for stripping and adding stars arbitrarily and after the fact, you get more Patsy points.

It seems like this year's class in particular is not dinged so much on volume, and not so much on distribution, it's getting "dinged" on the fact that nobody's rated by Rivals.

Why do kids get rated/don't get rated on Rivals? In particular, I'm pretty sure Kondas and Bourgeois were, at one time, rated on Rivals, but Bourgeois fell through the radar after a junior year injury and I think Kondas has a similar story. I do know a bunch of FBS schools were sniffing around them both at some point.

Knott, too, was rated as one of the top receivers in Florida, not exactly an easy feat. That he's not rated at all by Rivals (which is what you're implying) baffles me.

I understand that the Patsy Ratings are for entertainment purposes only, but I would defend to the hilt that Lehigh's recruits have serious quality, Rivals Ratings or no.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

From the other thread from our friend bison137:


Curious if you or anyone has ever done an analysis of whether rated players do any better than non-rated ones in the PL. I have looked at this for years for Bucknell and found no correlation at all - unless it is a negative correlation. Almost every All-PL player Bucknell has had was unrated - including (a) a future All-American, (b) a three-time 1st team All-PL player, (c) a PL ROY, (d) a 3-time All-PL RB/KR, (e) a RB who made Big 33 followed by All-PL as a frosh and as a soph, (f) etc.

In recent years, BU had a total of 30 All-PL players and only four of them had any listing at all from either Scout or Rivals. Of those four, one got 1 star from Scout (nothing from Rivals) - and that player (Sean Conover) ended up in the NFL at a different position. The other three were listed, but all had no stars. Of those three, two were QB's who ended up 2nd team All-PL at WR and LB respectively.

On the other hand, of the players who did get a listing from Scout or Rivals, most have ended up being non-contributors, with a few becoming average starters and only four ever making an All-PL squad (see above) - three at different positions. None of the two-star players turned out well.

Based on all of the above, I'm never disappointed if BU has few Scout/Rivals players.

[carney2]

It's a good a time as any to comment on the "quality rating" of the Patsy Points - meaning, if you've paid for/deserved a rating from Rivals, who is notorious for stripping and adding stars arbitrarily and after the fact, you get more Patsy points.

It seems like this year's class in particular is not dinged so much on volume, and not so much on distribution, it's getting "dinged" on the fact that nobody's rated by Rivals.

Why do kids get rated/don't get rated on Rivals? In particular, I'm pretty sure Kondas and Bourgeois were, at one time, rated on Rivals, but Bourgeois fell through the radar after a junior year injury and I think Kondas has a similar story. I do know a bunch of FBS schools were sniffing around them both at some point.

Knott, too, was rated as one of the top receivers in Florida, not exactly an easy feat. That he's not rated at all by Rivals (which is what you're implying) baffles me.

I understand that the Patsy Ratings are for entertainment purposes only, but I would defend to the hilt that Lehigh's recruits have serious quality, Rivals Ratings or no.

If you have something better I'm listening. You mention and denigrate Rivals, and you generally know what you're talking about. I point out however that each recruit is run through 2 recruiting services besides Rivals. Take it or leave it. It is what it is. The "winners" tend to gloat and the "losers" say "Shut up and deal." Life.

As for the following quote from Bison137:

"Curious if you or anyone has ever done an analysis of whether rated players do any better than non-rated ones in the PL."

The answer is no. It's been talked about, so when/if I retire - maybe. I will just point out that it cuts both ways. Will Rackley, as pointed out in the Lehigh Patsy Ratings write-up, was completely overlooked by the Ratings. Chris Lum, on the other hand, piled up lots and lots of Patsy Points for the ChickenSquawks. Hanging your hat on any isolated situation to praise or bury the system is just as dangerous as taking this whole thing too seriously.

[van]

Have to disagree with quality rating, I counted 10 rated and Kee with 2 stars per ESPN. Did not check scouts, so could be another one or two.

did not count Terez Owens, as high school listed was not same as Lehigh release. But suspect it is the same person.

[van]

Also disagree with needs, Dan Brown all state PA and Kee with 2 stars ESPN

[carney2]

Also disagree with needs, Dan Brown all state PA and Kee with 2 stars ESPN

My bad on Kee. At least someone is noticing. I will look again at ESPN. I searced on last name and was thrown off by the offset in the ESPN presentation that I got. As for Dan Brown all-state, this doesn't buy you Patsy Points. perhaps it does, but it doesn't.

[van]

Just saying 1 of 3 for RB, when we got 2 very good ones, seems unreasonable.

[carney2]

Hey, Van, help me out. I went back through everything and have 9 rated. You have 10. Help me find the 10th. Here's what I have:

All are Rated unless otherwise noted.
R = Rivals
S = Scout
E = ESPN

Camasta E
Chiasson R
Kee R S E(2*)
Lawson R S E
Owens E
Phillips E
Rigaud R E
Robb S E
Verdon E

Sorry, but I'm not finding any of the rating services giving a nod to Dan Brown.

[carney2]

Just saying 1 of 3 for RB, when we got 2 very good ones, seems unreasonable.

The 2 star for Kee changes everything. Revisions later. Would like to find your 10th rated first.

[heath]

As a troll of a non scholly leagues,and with Lehigh doing so well the past 2 years,I've come to the conclusion that Carney doesn't now jack ****.When looking at the past years Patsy ratings,and looking where teams finished in the Patriot league ,guess what?xeekx Your team Carney, should have won the Patriot in 2010 with that great class. Your bias towards your team hinders you from being objective. Have you Carney ever explained to the PL why your ratings don't add up to victories for the top recruiting classes? What a jokexnodx............BTW,good luck next season,try to break 500,if not, just blame it on the staff, not your ratings

[carney2]

As a troll of a non scholly leagues,and with Lehigh doing so well the past 2 years,I've come to the conclusion that Carney doesn't now jack ****.When looking at the past years Patsy ratings,and looking where teams finished in the Patriot league ,guess what?xeekx Your team Carney, should have won the Patriot in 2010 with that great class. Your bias towards your team hinders you from being objective. Have you Carney ever explained to the PL why your ratings don't add up to victories for the top recruiting classes? What a jokexnodx............BTW,good luck next season,try to break 500,if not, just blame it on the staff, not your ratings

Thank you for your input. I suggest that you spring for a spell checker, but what do I now? The best to you and yours.

[heath]

Thank you for your input. I suggest that you spring for a spell checker. The best to you and yours.
nice answer..............maybe you sir should check for a "ratings checker". Smart people are so stupid sometimesxbowx

[colorless raider]

I forget about all the Rivals ratings etc, they don't mean anything. Look at the highlight tapes and come up with a rating. Based on that I think the quality of this class is far higher than carney rates it. Only time will tell. I know "highlights" are just that, but I for one am impressed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm really very surprised that Derek Knott isn't rated anywhere even though he rated was among to top receivers in Florida. I believe he was actually rated in track, too, as he was almost tops in the state in the triple jump. (Source: Orlando Sentinel)

[van]

Bourgeors rated by ESPN, maybe a spelling issue.

[carney2]

Bourgeors rated by ESPN, maybe a spelling issue.

Yes! How can the Lehigh athletic department have all of these errors in its press release?! (The release spelled it Burgeous.) This is the first time that the kid and the University come together and they can't even spell his name right. Hey, Andy, someone (how about you?) needs to proofread these things before hitting the send button. It is now coming out that some of the weights, and I assume heights, are also screwed up. The 170 lb. TE, for instance, actually weighs closer to 230. Mistakes happen, but someone really screwed the pooch here.

Actually, I still have a problem. The press release lists Bourgeors/Burgeous as hailing from Hackensack HS in Hackensack. ESPN lists him at Whippany Park HS in Whippany. There can't be two people with this last name, but I am confused. Can any of you Squawkers straighten this out for me?

[carney2]

I forget about all the Rivals ratings etc, they don't mean anything. Look at the highlight tapes and come up with a rating. Based on that I think the quality of this class is far higher than carney rates it. Only time will tell. I know "highlights" are just that, but I for one am impressed.

We have completely opposite opinions here. I was absolutely the worst football player ever at my high school, but I'm certain that I could have found 3 or 4 plays that made me look semi-competent. I've completely given up on the highlight tapes and don't even peek. Besides, the idea of the Patsy Ratings is to take the subjectivity out of the rating system. Nothing more subjective than one man's opinion of the few plays he just saw on a highlight tape.

[van]

Yes! How can the Lehigh athletic department have all of these errors in its press release?! (The release spelled it Burgeous.) This is the first time that the kid and the University come together and they can't even spell his name right. Hey, Andy, someone (how about you?) needs to proofread these things before hitting the send button. It is now coming out that some of the weights, and I assume heights, are also screwed up. The 170 lb. TE, for instance, actually weighs closer to 230. Mistakes happen, but someone really screwed the pooch here.

Actually, I still have a problem. The press release lists Bourgeors/Burgeous as hailing from Hackensack HS in Hackensack. ESPN lists him at Whippany Park HS in Whippany. There can't be two people with this last name, but I am confused. Can any of you Squawkers straighten this out for me?

don't normally respond to being called a Squawker, I am an engineer, but for you Carney here you go:

Actually, think it is ESPN that has spelling wrong, newspaper release spelling agrees with Lehigh's. Believe that I read somewhere that he transferred from Whippany to Hackensack or vice versus.

[ngineer]

Also disagree with needs, Dan Brown all state PA and Kee with 2 stars ESPN

Agreed on Brown. First team all-state. Not surprised if he becomes all-PL back in a couple years.

[ngineer]

I'm really very surprised that Derek Knott isn't rated anywhere even though he rated was among to top receivers in Florida. I believe he was actually rated in track, too, as he was almost tops in the state in the triple jump. (Source: Orlando Sentinel)

I suspect an 'under the radar' type due to his size--only 5'9", 165 lbs. But he can run like hell and being a state champ in the triple jump tells you something of his athleticsm and leaping ability.

[ngineer]

Bourgeois could be another "Lum" but on the defensive side of the ball. A number of FBS schools interested in him until hurt junior year. Same thing with Lum who broke his arm and missed year in HS and a number of Big Ten teams were scared off due to possible "damaged goods". That is the problem when dealing with scholarships v. general aid. You don't want to waste a scholarship on a question mark. But from all reports Donnyell can be a real monster of a player. Already has the size and speed for LB and still growing.

[RichH2]

Yes! How can the Lehigh athletic department have all of these errors in its press release?! (The release spelled it Burgeous.) This is the first time that the kid and the University come together and they can't even spell his name right. Hey, Andy, someone (how about you?) needs to proofread these things before hitting the send button. It is now coming out that some of the weights, and I assume heights, are also screwed up. The 170 lb. TE, for instance, actually weighs closer to 230. Mistakes happen, but someone really screwed the pooch here.

Actually, I still have a problem. The press release lists Bourgeors/Burgeous as hailing from Hackensack HS in Hackensack. ESPN lists him at Whippany Park HS in Whippany. There can't be two people with this last name, but I am confused. Can any of you Squawkers straighten this out for me?

Kid transferred fromWhip. Park to Hackensack. Missed Jr yr with injury as per article in Bergen Record

[carney2]

There will be a revision, but day job is interfering. Can't promise timing. Best guess is that Patsy Rating will now be at least 48. Would love for the school to issue a corrected press release. Chatter on the Lehigh board indicates that the 170 lb. TE may not be the only one who went on a strict diet during the recruiting season. If true, there may be a few other Patsy Points left on the table.

[RichH2]

Coen noted in today's Express that recruiting is continuing with kids coming in this weekend. Looking for Wrs and more LM.

B*tching about ranking aside, Patsy ratings are imprecise and "for enjoyment " purposes only. It is a friendly competiton among us all. Carney has worked long and hard developing the ratings using the only viable means to keep score, ***s. A group last yr tried to rate recruit classes using video. It died being overwhelmed. Are A-S mentions a factortobe considered . In some states could be good. But just look at NJ , OH and Penn, each has multiple A-S teams.

We all should realize that many of PL best players never saw a * while many recruits with a * never saw the field.

[van]

Coen noted in today's Express that recruiting is continuing with kids coming in this weekend. Looking for Wrs and more LM.

B*tching about ranking aside, Patsy ratings are imprecise and "for enjoyment " purposes only. It is a friendly competiton among us all. Carney has worked long and hard developing the ratings using the only viable means to keep score, ***s. A group last yr tried to rate recruit classes using video. It died being overwhelmed. Are A-S mentions a factortobe considered . In some states could be good. But just look at NJ , OH and Penn, each has multiple A-S teams.

We all should realize that many of PL best players never saw a * while many recruits with a * never saw the field.

Yup, what he said!

[van]

There will be a revision, but day job is interfering. Can't promise timing. Best guess is that Patsy Rating will now be at least 48. Would love for the school to issue a corrected press release. Chatter on the Lehigh board indicates that the 170 lb. TE may not be the only one who went on a strict diet during the recruiting season. If true, there may be a few other Patsy Points left on the table.

TE # seems to be a typo, was correct in the other posted release at something like 225#

[carney2]

The rating has been revised. You need to go back to the first post in this thread to see it.

[Pard4Life]

Minnesota and UNC had top 20 recruiting classes a few years ago, and both are horrible. We know the ratings are for entertainment.

[carney2]

Minnesota and UNC had top 20 recruiting classes a few years ago, and both are horrible. We know the ratings are for entertainment.

Finally, you understand.

Oh yeah, Alabama and LSU also had top 20 recruiting classes a few years ago and...

[Pard4Life]

Yes they were one and two for 09 and 10.

[van]

The rating has been revised. You need to go back to the first post in this thread to see it.

Thanks to the committee, your efforts are truly appreciated.

[RichH2]

xshhhx Rumor that Andy is continuing recruiting for this class solely to boost Patsy ratingxchinscratchxxholyx

[van]

xshhhx Rumor that Andy is continuing recruiting for this class solely to boost Patsy ratingxchinscratchxxholyx

And I thought Rich was always so serious. Guess the off-season will do that to you.

[RichH2]

The rumors of my seriousity are exaggerated.

[ngineer]

I thought we had a couple more "jumbo"s than listed? Regardless, I think we'll see few more add-ons by the end of next week.

[RichH2]

A couple of kids are in this weekend.

[van]

I thought we had a couple more "jumbo"s than listed? Regardless, I think we'll see few more add-ons by the end of next week.

Some of the jumbos apparently went on a diet recently.

[carney2]

I thought we had a couple more "jumbo"s than listed?

I'm betting so too. Someone on Squawk Mountain was not minding the store, and I'm betting that press release contains more errors than just the 170 lb. TE and the spelling confusion over the LB from Hackensack/Whippany/Grovers Mill/wherever. If it was me - and I am now, as I have always been, quite happy that it's not - and I was a ticket buying, athletic supporting, and possibly even contributing, Mountain Hawk, I'd want to know what the H E double hockey sticks is going on with the football recruiting program. Quite frankly, the last two years could have been handled this well by The Three Stooges.

[colorless raider]

Gate is still working as well. Hopefully news by next week.

[ngineer]

I'm betting so too. Someone on Squawk Mountain was not minding the store, and I'm betting that press release contains more errors than just the 170 lb. TE and the spelling confusion over the LB from Hackensack/Whippany/Grovers Mill/wherever. If it was me - and I am now, as I have always been, quite happy that it's not - and I was a ticket buying, athletic supporting, and possibly even contributing, Mountain Hawk, I'd want to know what the H E double hockey sticks is going on with the football recruiting program. Quite frankly, the last two years could have been handled this well by The Three Stooges.

I count 5 Jumbos:

OL: Camasta (275), James (295), Owen (310)
DL: Chaison (255), Manganiello (255)

Two other DL at 240, which while not above the Jumbo threshold, is still decent size for HS senior DL.

[carney2]

I count 5 Jumbos:

OL: Camasta (275), James (295), Owen (310)
DL: Chaison (255), Manganiello (255)

Two other DL at 240, which while not above the Jumbo threshold, is still decent size for HS senior DL.

Look again - look at the listing at the end. Here's what I get:

Camasta OL 275 - Jumbo
James OL 295 - Jumbo
Owens OL 310 - Jumbo
Chiasson DL 225 - Needs to be 250+ I've looked at it 10 times. It says 225.
Manganiello OL 255 - Needs to be 270+ Yes, he's listed as OL in the press release.

That's 3.

If this doesn't jive with other information that you have, I don't know what to tell you. If, for instance, we are seeing yet more typos, then the press release is just a snippet, a small photograph, of a seemingly monumental screwup that is football recruiting on Squawk Mountain.

[ngineer]

Lehigh Football Class of 2016




Name


Pos.


Ht./Wt.


Hometown/High School


College




Donnyell Burgeous, Jr.


LB


6-2/230


Hackensack, N.J./Hackensack


Arts and Sciences




Dan Brown


RB


5-10/185


Chalfont, Pa./Central Bucks South


Arts and Sciences




Steven Camasta


OL


6-2/275


Hawley, Pa./Wallenpaupack


Arts and Sciences




Josh Chiasson


DL


6-4/255


Annapolis, Md./St. Mary’s


Engineering




Austin Devine


K/P


6-3/195


Oradell, N.J./Bergen Catholic


Business




Matt Ford


OL


6-3/265


Wall, N.J./Wall


Business




Ryan James


OL


6-3/295


Piscataway, N.J./Piscataway


Engineering




Grant Jamgochian


DL


6-3/230


Newtown Square, Pa./The Haverford School


Arts and Sciences




DJ Kee


RB


5-11/185


Berlin, Md./Stephen Decatur


Arts and Sciences




Derek Knott


WR


5-9/160


Orlando, Fla./Colonial


Arts and Sciences




Cody Kondas


LB


6-2/220


Westerville, Ohio/Westerville Central


Business




LaQuan Lambert


DB


6-1/180


Chichester, Pa./Chichester


Business




Matthew Laub


LB


6-3/215


Coplay, Pa./Parkland


Business




Randall Lawson


DB


5-11/180


Clarksville, Md./River Hill


Business




Tony Manganiello


OL/DL


6-1/255


Berkeley Heights, N.J./Governor Livingston


Business




Terez Owens


OL


6-2/310


Bear, Del./Red Lion Christian Academy


Business




Greg Palma


DL


6-3/240


Nutley, N.J./Nutley


Business




Russhon Phillips


DB


6-1/170


Conshohocken, Pa./Plymouth-Whitemarsh


Arts and Sciences




Olivier Rigaud


DB


6-0/175


Hollywood, Fla./Pembroke Pines Charter


Business




Noah Robb


LB


6-3/195


Orefield, Pa./Allentown Central Catholic


Engineering




Chris Ruhl


TE


6-4/240


Huntingdon Valley, Pa./Abington


Engineering




Matthew Verdon


LB


6-5/195


Orlando, Fla./Timber Creek


Business Tony Manganiello – OL/DL; 6-1; 255; Berkeley Heights, N.J./ Governor Livingston; Business

All-State third team, All-Group 2 first team, All-Area first team, All-Conference first team, and All-Union County first team performer… team captain for football and wrestling … lettered in three sports: football, wrestling and track and field (shot put)… Athletic Honor Society member… Member of Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Governor Livingston Republican Club, and Physics Club.
The above taken off the football website. Chiasson 6'4" 255; Manganiello 6'1" 255 OL/DL:

[carney2]

Thanks, ngineer. I went back to the Lehigh website and notice that someone in the football office woke up and took an eraser to the original press release. We no longer, for instance, have a 175 lb. TE. Of the two that are in contention for additional Jumbo points, here is where we stand:

Chiasson is now listed as a 255 lb. DL - Since the information comes from the school, that is one additional Patsy Point. The correction will be made.

Manganiello, however, is still listed as a 255 lb. OL (http://www.lehighsports.com/sports/football/mountain_hawks_announce_football_class_of_2016.asp x). You have him as an OL/DL. That won't cut it because the Patsy Ratings don't allow both. It's either/or, and the first designation always prevails. A 255 lb. OL does not get a Jumbo point.

[ngineer]

Thanks, ngineer. I went back to the Lehigh website and notice that someone in the football office woke up and took an eraser to the original press release. We no longer, for instance, have a 175 lb. TE. Of the two that are in contention for additional Jumbo points, here is where we stand:

Chiasson is now listed as a 255 lb. DL - Since the information comes from the school, that is one additional Patsy Point. The correction will be made.

Manganiello, however, is still listed as a 255 lb. OL (http://www.lehighsports.com/sports/football/mountain_hawks_announce_football_class_of_2016.asp x). You have him as an OL/DL. That won't cut it because the Patsy Ratings don't allow both. It's either/or, and the first designation always prevails. A 255 lb. OL does not get a Jumbo point.

Whatever. The write on him lists him as both. The simple list has just an OL. So we'll know in August which side he ends up on....you can recalculate then. (;-)

[RichH2]

Signed perRivals

Rene Molinari DE 6'3 250 Albert Einstien Md All county , All area

[carney2]

Signed perRivals

Rene Molinari DE 6'3 250 Albert Einstien Md All county , All area

Wake me when it comes from the school.

[Southsider]

Everybody chill, have a beer, take in the LU/LC hoops game next weekend, then get ready for Sept. None of this recruiting crap means squat right now. Some will cut it, some won't. That's the beauty of it all at this level, nobody knows........and by the way, Go Lehigh!!

[Pard4Life]

Everybody chill, have a beer, take in the LU/LC hoops game next weekend, then get ready for Sept. None of this recruiting crap means squat right now. Some will cut it, some won't. That's the beauty of it all at this level, nobody knows........and by the way, Go Lehigh!!

Since you seem new here Southsider, the Patsy ratings are not exactly serious... more of an attempt to parody the seriousness of the big boys. But, they do have some interesting wrinkles and give some hints as to what we have.

[ngineer]

Everybody chill, have a beer, take in the LU/LC hoops game next weekend, then get ready for Sept. None of this recruiting crap means squat right now. Some will cut it, some won't. That's the beauty of it all at this level, nobody knows........and by the way, Go Lehigh!!

Hey, man, it's February. We need to focus on something, and I'd rather be thinking football than roundball. So I AM "chillin" (;-)

[RichH2]

Just up on Rivals signed 2/17

Hayden Jones WR 5'11 178 Lake Highland Fl ** Rivals listed on Scout and ESPN . sub 4.5/40 ( 4.34 to 4.46 )

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just up on Rivals signed 2/17

Hayden Jones WR 5'11 178 Lake Highland Fl ** Rivals listed on Scout and ESPN . sub 4.5/40 ( 4.34 to 4.46 )

Obviously coach Coen is trying to bump up his Patsy rating, signing a kid with stars on Rivals and stellar speed information... xlolx

[RichH2]

Obviously coach Coen is trying to bump up his Patsy rating, signing a kid with stars on Rivals and stellar speed information... xlolx

Check out his videos. If anything looks faster.

[Southsider]

Hey, man, it's February. We need to focus on something, and I'd rather be thinking football than roundball. So I AM "chillin" (;-)
P4L/Ngineer, just took in the LU/LC hoops game. Pards overmatched (sorry P4L). Anyway, PL hoop Refs no better than FB, very inconsistent. Back to FB, schollies will surely bode well for our teams, and I look forward to future battles!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

P4L/Ngineer, just took in the LU/LC hoops game. Pards overmatched (sorry P4L). Anyway, PL hoop Refs no better than FB, very inconsistent. Back to FB, schollies will surely bode well for our teams, and I look forward to future battles!!

Sorry. I was at the lacrosse game against Providence this afternoon, so I missed LU/LC hoops thingy. Huge win for the Pard laxers, though. Unbelievable crowd. Concessions actually ran out of food, I think.

So how did Lehigh Lax fare vs Villanova today? Y'all were anticipating an easy win. Final score?

[RichH2]

Sorry. I was at the lacrosse game against Providence this afternoon, so I missed LU/LC hoops thingy. Huge win for the Pard laxers, though. Unbelievable crowd. Concessions actually ran out of food, I think.

So how did Lehigh Lax fare vs Villanova today? Y'all were anticipating an easy win. Final score?

Ok,Ok got our butts kicked into next week by #10 Nova. Cassesse did not have them ready to play. Thought we would be better

[Lehigh Football Nation]

We interrupt this talk about some spring sport to bring you...

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/408773_2993750277419_1072035710_2930123_768907887_ n.jpg

xlolx

[ngineer]

Sorry. I was at the lacrosse game against Providence this afternoon, so I missed LU/LC hoops thingy. Huge win for the Pard laxers, though. Unbelievable crowd. Concessions actually ran out of food, I think.

So how did Lehigh Lax fare vs Villanova today? Y'all were anticipating an easy win. Final score?

???Who was expecting an easy win?? VU ranked #10 and LU unranked. Get real. I was hoping for a better game from our guys, and I think they will be better when it really counts. Beating VU last year may well have not had them ready mentally. That's a coaching thing too, but sometimes, doesn't matter what you tell kids.
AS for basketball--men's and women's, we will not be deflected. ANOTHER SWEEP!

[ngineer]

Just up on Rivals signed 2/17

Hayden Jones WR 5'11 178 Lake Highland Fl ** Rivals listed on Scout and ESPN . sub 4.5/40 ( 4.34 to 4.46 )

Not only that but we also are getting another "Jumbo"...Confirmed last night that a 6'6" 285 pounder from Exeter Academy turned down a partial scholarship from Maine to come to Lehigh. Can't recall the name at the moment.
Also confirmed that the new K/P recuit does have a strong leg and Coach Ryan is very excited as to his longer range ability, which is where we were lacking last year.

Last night's Football Awards Dinner was fantastic. Obviously, a huge crowd after such a season. Lum's Dad confirmed that Chris has had some strong interest from CFL. He received team's Outstanding Player award and had a 3.9 g.p.a. last semester. 30 min. video highlight DVD is available by contacting Football office.

[van]

Not only that but we also are getting another "Jumbo"...Confirmed last night that a 6'6" 285 pounder from Exeter Academy turned down a partial scholarship from Maine to come to Lehigh. Can't recall the name at the moment.
Also confirmed that the new K/P recuit does have a strong leg and Coach Ryan is very excited as to his longer range ability, which is where we were lacking last year.

Last night's Football Awards Dinner was fantastic. Obviously, a huge crowd after such a season. Lum's Dad confirmed that Chris has had some strong interest from CFL. He received team's Outstanding Player award and had a 3.9 g.p.a. last semester. 30 min. video highlight DVD is available by contacting Football office.

Kid from Exeter, if it is who I think it is, looks very athletic and might be a great nose guard candidate, also was long snapper on his team. Smile Rich!

[Southsider]

So P4L, I read your post on the LC board. Did Kate Upton go to Lafayette? If so, when???? I gotsta knowwwwwwwwwwwww.

[RichH2]

Kid from Exeter, if it is who I think it is, looks very athletic and might be a great nose guard candidate, also was long snapper on his team. Smile Rich!

ThaNKS GUYS, Heard that was another LM now we know. Hope Banquet was fun.Looks to be an OL but heck I can dream

[RichH2]

Matt Whitcombe O/DL 6'6 285 Exeter Academy ,Mass

[ngineer]

Rich, seems like our 'small' class is now up to about 26 or 27?? Another RB in stable??

[RichH2]

Perhaps , we offered a while back . Do not know if offer still open. Very talented rb but questionable whether he is significantly better than Kee or brown

[DFW HOYA]

So P4L, I read your post on the LC board. Did Kate Upton go to Lafayette? If so, when???? I gotsta knowwwwwwwwwwwww.

Kate Upton is 19. She has not attended college.

[Franks Tanks]

So P4L, I read your post on the LC board. Did Kate Upton go to Lafayette? If so, when???? I gotsta knowwwwwwwwwwwww.

It is an inside joke. Bogie and P4L began posting pics of Katie outfitted in leopard attire this past season. It was an ode to the motivation tactics used in "Major League" where patches of clothing would be removed as the team won games.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It is an inside joke. Bogie and P4L began posting pics of Katie outfitted in leopard attire this past season. It was an ode to the motivation tactics used in "Major League" where patches of clothing would be removed as the team won games.

Never got past the veil, I'm afraid. xlolx

[Southsider]

It is an inside joke. Bogie and P4L began posting pics of Katie outfitted in leopard attire this past season. It was an ode to the motivation tactics used in "Major League" where patches of clothing would be removed as the team won games.

Well, OK then....this 50 something is certainly motivated..........

[RichH2]

She makes a great screensaverxangelxxsmileyclapxxsmileyclapx

[Bogus Megapardus]

If Kate Upton were to choose to attend college, I hope it would be at a Patriot League school.



http://data.whicdn.com/images/12299892/kate-upton-guess-accessories-fall-2011-campaign-leopard_thumb.png

[The Historian]

Kate could wait to apply to Lafayette until the fall and maybe get one of the Leopard's first football merit scholarships.

[van]

Looks like Kate might make a great tight end!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Kate has plenty of "merit" for a Lafayette scholarship, not to mention her endless variations on the Leopard theme.



http://files.brobible.com/archive/Buzz/kate-upton-bikini-swim-23.jpg

[Bogus Megapardus]

great tight end


Yup.



http://files.brobible.com/archive/Buzz/kate-upton-bikini-swim-22.jpg

[ngineer]

Special Teams maybe. Ready to put one through the uprights....

[Doc QB]

Looks like Kate might make a great tight end!

If heading to Lafayette...probably more likely a wide receiver...

[Southsider]

Any idea what mom looks like? I'm sure Bogie or P4L likely have something at their fingertips to share with the group.......

[Bogus Megapardus]

Any idea what mom looks like?


Kate with her mom.



http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8761/kateandmom.png

[RichH2]

We should make it a rule that everytime Bogie posts on a PL thread he must include a picture of Kate, the girl who is quickly becoming our League mascot

[Bogus Megapardus]

We should make it a rule that everytime Bogie posts on a PL thread he must include a picture of Kate, the girl who is quickly becoming our League mascot


On the Lafayette board, we think of her more as a muse. I just cannot equate her with a guy running around in a stuffed Leopard head, as talented and entertaining as he might be.

By the way, given Kate's family connections to politics and traditional American industry, she'd be an ideal Patriot League student.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

English soccer has WAGs, and we have Bogus' updates on Kate Upton. But I'm just upset Emma Watson picked Brown over Lehigh.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

On second thought, perhaps she would fit in perfectly at Lafayette.

http://technorati.com/entertainment/celebrity/article/kate-upton-too-chubby-for-a/

[Bogus Megapardus]

On second thought, perhaps she would fit in perfectly at Lafayette.

http://technorati.com/entertainment/celebrity/article/kate-upton-too-chubby-for-a/


Chubby? The co-eds grazing out at Saucon are chubby. The Lafayette Dance Team is chubby. Kate Upton is not chubby.

Apparently, Kate is a champion equestrian. Lafayette has an outstanding equestrian team that has been to the national finals. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

[RichH2]

Chubby?? ridiculous. Seems the Fashionista set has decided that any one who is not a Twilight anorexic is "chubby".

[Bogus Megapardus]

OK, I couldn't resist -

The Upton family comes from Michigan and apparently all are rabid U. Michigan football fans. However -

Kate's sister Christie went to Wake Forest and she now works for the NY Jets in some personnel capacity.

Kate's sister Laura went to UGA and was a member of the varsity equestrian team.

As much as I have to say it, Cornell likely would be the best for for Kate. It's very much out of the way, and it has its own, on-campus stables and polo arena. I am unaware of any PL school with on-campus stables and polo. Lafayette shares its equestrian facilities with Princeton and Rutgers, but they are about a half hour away from campus.

[Pard4Life]

What is Lehigh's 2012 schedule?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/conf-scheds-2012/patr-sched

9/1 Monmouth
9/8 at Central Connecticut State
9/15 Princeton
9/22 at Liberty
9/29 Fordham (*)
10/6 Columbia
10/13 at Georgetown *
10/20 Bucknell *
11/3 at Holy Cross *
11/10 Colgate *
11/17 at Lafayette *

Boy, a UNI/Lehigh rematch on 9/8 would be awesome.... in Bethlehem, of course ;)

[Engineer86]

Chubby? The co-eds grazing out at Saucon are chubby. The Lafayette Dance Team is chubby. Kate Upton is not chubby.

Apparently, Kate is a champion equestrian. Lafayette has an outstanding equestrian team that has been to the national finals. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

I gotta admit, Lehigh's basktball cheerleading squad gives a new meaning to politically correctness. Call it what you will. Kate would not fit in there.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I gotta admit, Lehigh's basktbell cheerleading squad gives a new meaning to politically correctness.

Spandex is a privilege, not a right. Our collective institutions ought to take heed of that maxim.

[Pard4Life]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/conf-scheds-2012/patr-sched

9/1 Monmouth
9/8 at Central Connecticut State
9/15 Princeton
9/22 at Liberty
9/29 Fordham (*)
10/6 Columbia
10/13 at Georgetown *
10/20 Bucknell *
11/3 at Holy Cross *
11/10 Colgate *
11/17 at Lafayette *

Boy, a UNI/Lehigh rematch on 9/8 would be awesome.... in Bethlehem, of course ;)

Why is CCSU going to back out? Hate to say it but aside from the Liberty game, this is a mega-weak schedule: two bottom Ivies and two mediocre NECs. UNI would be a great get.

[ngineer]

OK, I couldn't resist -

The Upton family comes from Michigan and apparently all are rabid U. Michigan football fans. However -

Kate's sister Christie went to Wake Forest and she now works for the NY Jets in some personnel capacity.

Kate's sister Laura went to UGA and was a member of the varsity equestrian team.

As much as I have to say it, Cornell likely would be the best for for Kate. It's very much out of the way, and it has its own, on-campus stables and polo arena. I am unaware of any PL school with on-campus stables and polo. Lafayette shares its equestrian facilities with Princeton and Rutgers, but they are about a half hour away from campus.

Not 100% sure, but I think Bucknell may have stables, or ones very close by as my daughter is an alum and had some friends on their team.

[ngineer]

Why is CCSU going to back out? Hate to say it but aside from the Liberty game, this is a mega-weak schedule: two bottom Ivies and two mediocre NECs. UNI would be a great get.

Where did you hear that CCSU was backing out? I do agree the OOC schedule is not the greatest, though CCSU has been fairly competitive the past few years. Replacing them with UNI would be tremendous.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Why would Central Connecticut back out? Wouldn't Lehigh, as a tournament semi-finalist, be considered a good home game for them? Maybe they just don't like PL teams - they think the PL is weak and over-rated. Maybe they don't think Lehigh would draw - none of their students ever heard of the place.

[Pard4Life]

Ask LFN... I am asking if CCSU has hinted at backing out because he alludes to UNI being a good game for 9/8... maybe he is just exaggerating again to get blog traffic or start more rumor posts.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ask LFN... I am asking if CCSU has hinted at backing out because he alludes to UNI being a good game for 9/8... maybe he is just exaggerating again to get blog traffic or start more rumor posts.

xlolx

I'm not saying CCSU is backing out, or Lehigh, or anyone, but certainly it could be rearranged. I don't know how difficult that might be to do.

[Bogus Megapardus]

In other words, LFN really IS rumor-mongering it up as he goes along, n'est-ce pas?

Lemme try. How's this - I heard that Kate Upton was at Lafayette and that she thinks the Kirby fitness center is really sweet. She likes the new Third Street studio art facilities and the awesome new photography studios, too.

How'd I do?

[ngineer]

xlolx

I'm not saying CCSU is backing out, or Lehigh, or anyone, but certainly it could be rearranged. I don't know how difficult that might be to do.

Is Lehigh going to pay UNI to come in? No. Do we want to go out there, again, without reciprocity? Doubtful. PLus UNI already has 6 away games this year. They need a home game.

[van]

In other words, LFN really IS rumor-mongering it up as he goes along, n'est-ce pas?

Lemme try. How's this - I heard that Kate Upton was at Lafayette and that she thinks the Kirby fitness center is really sweet. She likes the new Third Street studio art facilities and the awesome new photography studios, too.

How'd I do?

I heard that Kate liked the puppet shows!

[ngineer]

According to an email I received, three more recruits have been officially posted. A big OL from New England named Cohen, 6'6" 285 lbs, a big DL from MD, and and all-state RB from Florida.

[RichH2]

A-S wr from Fl hayden Jones.OL Matt Cohen ( had that one partially correctxchinscratchx) and rene Molinari a DLfrom Md

[van]

A-S wr from Fl hayden Jones.OL Matt Cohen ( had that one partially correctxchinscratchx) and rene Molinari a DLfrom Md

Think Jones was rated 2* by rivals.

[ngineer]

Think Jones was rated 2* by rivals.

Alright, two more 'jumbos' and a speed merchant added. Class of 25 matching the departing number of seniors. Despite the late start, looks like a pretty good result.

[RichH2]

Not too shabby, perhaps not Patsy friendly, but a talented athletic group. 13 0f 25 on various A-S squads . Both Florida WRs on the Super 60 list in Florida.

Now on to Spring Practice and finding a QB.

[carney2]

[QUOTE=RichH2;1774187]Not too shabby, perhaps not Patsy friendly,.../QUOTE]

VERY "Patsy friendly." Working on it. This becomes a bit more difficult - not just a matter of adding up the numbers. One recruit, for instance, adds 11 Patsy Points to the total. Is this a methodology problem that needs to be corrected and accounted for?

[RichH2]

[QUOTE=RichH2;1774187]Not too shabby, perhaps not Patsy friendly,.../QUOTE]

VERY "Patsy friendly." Working on it.

Thanks , Carney, perhaps not as deep overall as Pard class , which is very good, but better than it was a month ago.

[carney2]

LEHIGH = 62

The three additions to the Lehigh recruiting class are not just additional bodies, they are guys worth waiting for. The two linemen address specific needs and the WR is Spadola's heir apparent and kept the Patsy Points meter spinning. I'm not redoing the write-up, but here's where the Points fall now:

QUALITY = 20

CLASS SIZE = 5

DISTRIBUTION = 7

SPEED = 17

TRIGGER = 0

JUMBO = 5

NEEDS = 11 (of 12)
1. OL = 5 (of 5)
2. DL = 3 (of 4)
3. RB = 3 (of 3)

COMMITTEE ADJUSTMENTS = Minus 3
Two things led to the negative adjustment:
(1) The Hawks received 3 or 4 Patsy Points based on the Patsy methodology that lowest reported time for the 40 is used to assign points. Rivals reports these times in a rounded format that caused the times from other services to round down to a higher Patsy number. This happened yet again with the WR recruit added in this update.
(2) One of these three recruits added 11 Patsy Points to the total by himself. It's happened before when the recruit was a QB, but rarely, if ever for a non-QB. The Committee feels this is excessive for a position that will not be involved in every offensive play. If the Patsy Ratings survive the advent of scholarships, a change will be made in how Speed points are assigned.

THE POINTS RACE WITH 4 TO GO:

Lafayette 67
Lehigh 62
Fordham 47

[RichH2]

Nice analysis. Boy, 11 pts for one WR. Agree too heavy a weight for a non QB. Distorts ratings unfairly. Altho, I think it was Hoyas a few yrs back that brought in a paasle of QBs resulting in a skewed score. Looking forward to the rest . Thanks again