NFL Combine column

[Mr. C]

Here is the latest column from College Sports Journal. Welcome to our NFL draft expert Josh Buchanan. It is always great to see ex-FCS players get recognition at the next level.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/89-college-sports-journal/josh-buchanan/173-the-fcs-elite-awaits-nfl-combine

[Bearwitness]

SS Jerron McMillian of Maine got his invite to the combine.

http://mainecampus.com/2012/01/27/football-standout-mcmillian-invited-to-nfl-combine/?ref=hp

[SU DOG]

Corey White of Samford

http://www.samfordsports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/012712aaa.html

[frozennorth]

i thought cornick has already been invited.

[ASU_Fanatic]

Brian Quick will be a day 2 pick.

[BisonBohl]

Yeah Cornick is a for sure and already got an invitation.

[Saint3333]

I really wish Presley would get an invite, his numbers would be very good speed wise.

[Mr. C]

Brian Quick will be a day 2 pick.

Brian Quick will be a DAY ONE pick from what many NFL sources are telling me.

[Cleets]

Here is the latest column from College Sports Journal. Welcome to our NFL draft expert Josh Buchanan. It is always great to see ex-FCS players get recognition at the next level.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/89-college-sports-journal/josh-buchanan/173-the-fcs-elite-awaits-nfl-combine


Great article Mr. C
Thanks for keeping us "up to speed" on the details - and - if you hear anything you think we ought to know, please post it
Even if it's "unconfirmed" scuttlebut (which I know you hate posting that stuff) but * cough, we're interested

[DJKyR0]

Yeah Cornick is a for sure and already got an invitation.

Yep. Source: http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&ATCLID=205367865

[ASU_Fanatic]

Brian Quick will be a DAY ONE pick from what many NFL sources are telling me.

Lol, no the way the draft works now:

Day 1: first round
Day 2: 2nd and 3rd round
Day 3: 4-7

Quick isn't going in the first round.

[Mr. C]

Don't be so sure about that.

[chattanoogamocs]

According the to the Times Free Press, Coleman got his invite (this article was from a month ago)...

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/jan/01/utcs-bj-coleman-invited-nfl-combine/

[mountaineer in Cane Land]

I think Quick could be one of those players whose draft stock could dramatically go up or down depending on his performance at the Indy combines. The biggest concern by NFL teams was how poor his fundimentals were. If he is smart, he will get to one of those wr training camps before the combines, and really work on his fundimentals. The talent is there, but NFL teams do not have time to teach him how to correctly play his position.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

According to posters over on Egriz, LB Caleb McSurdy received an invite. According to Egriz chatter they are getting the information from Dirt's Facebook page, so hopefully that information is accurate.

[ASU_Fanatic]

Don't be so sure about that.VERY RARELY do FCS players go in round 1, they do very well to go in round 2.

[ngineer]

Witt from Yale?? Was not impressed at all with him last September at Lehigh. A lot better QBs than him out there.

[asumike83]

DeAndre Presley just received an invite to the combine! Very excited for him. He is a quality young man and while he never had a hope to get looked at as an NFL QB, his WR/PR stock could certainly rise because he will post an impressive 40 time.

[PaladinFan]

DeAndre Presley just received an invite to the combine! Very excited for him. He is a quality young man and while he never had a hope to get looked at as an NFL QB, his WR/PR stock could certainly rise because he will post an impressive 40 time.

I'm wondering if Armanti Edwards' transition to the pro-game will hurt his stock. Hard not to draw comparisons between the two.

[asumike83]

I'm wondering if Armanti Edwards' transition to the pro-game will hurt his stock. Hard not to draw comparisons between the two.

It certainly could but I think there are two key differences: DeAndre played some CB/WR/KR at the end of his Senior year and looked good. That punt return TD in the Florida All-Star game certainly didn't hurt either. Also, his workout numbers will look better on paper than Armanti. We all know how much scouts love 40 times and he will probably be clocked in the 4.3's.

[Saint3333]

DP is what they call combine gold.

[Apphole]

I wonder how much his punt return for a TD in the Florida senior bowl increased DP's NFL stock?

[asumike83]

Sure did not hurt to get that exposure, especially since the primarily played QB until late in his ASU career. However, he is still projected as a late-round/free agent prospect.

[BEAR]

Combine invite list:

http://www.nflcombine.net/players/official-invite-list

[Mr. C]

Hats off to Josh Buchanan for some good insight on the combine.

[UAalum72]

NY Post says Albany's DiLella will be at Saturday's Jets local combine
Albany QB gunning to catch eye of NFL scouts (http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/17566/3283570)

[smallcollegefbfan]

On Brian Quick there are teams who gave him a first round grade based on the season. With that said his Senior Bowl performance was solid but not a home run. He's a guy who is probably a third round pick as of today but if he runs in the 4.4s at 6'4, 220 pounds he won't make it out of the top 50. Teams had higher grades on him than the media realized during the fall.

One player who has seemed to fall some is Ryan Steed. I was hearing 2nd-3rd during the season and now I think 4th is more likely.

If Presley does what I think he can do at Indy he will not only get drafted but I could see 5th or 6th round. That is if his short shuttle, 3-cone, 40, 10-yard, and vertical are what I think they can be.

Some scuttlebutt I'm hearing is that Josh Norman is definitely going in the third round. There are 2-3 teams who have him targeted there and I doubt he makes it past there.

Trumaine Johnson did not go to the Senior Bowl claiming to not be ready. I think he is rated lower than people expect. I have him as a mid round guy. Don't see him going in the top 100 unless he clocks very well in the 40.

Draft media seems to be missing on Matt Veldman, DeAndre Presley, Dustin Waldron, and Ronnie Cameron though. I'm higher on them than most.

McSurdy is a guy who will fly up boards if he runs 4.75 or better. Most think he is a 4.80-4.85 guy so running sub 4.7s would likely put him in the 5th-6th round range.

[LehighU11]

Witt from Yale?? Was not impressed at all with him last September at Lehigh. A lot better QBs than him out there.

I was not impressed in the least with him at Lehigh. Perhaps his coach exaggerated his stats and abilities to scouts...

[smallcollegefbfan]

I was not impressed in the least with him at Lehigh. Perhaps his coach exaggerated his stats and abilities to scouts...

That's not possible. NFL scouts see the tape. Witt doesn't have a big arm but has a stronger arm than Lum by far. He has the size as well and flashed some stuff. There are games where I put a draftable grade on Witt and then some where I put a free agent grade on him. He's too inconsistent for me to draft, especially with the Rhodes scholar controversy. I can see why he was taken but I will say he is the lowest rated player from FCS at the combine, in my opinion. He and Cornick are running a close second.

[Mr. C]

Here is another great look at the NFL combine from Josh Buchanan:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/89-college-sports-journal/josh-buchanan/178-breaking-down-the-fcs-class-at-the-nfl-combine

[Mr. C]

Here is another great look at the NFL combine from Josh Buchanan:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/89-college-sports-journal/josh-buchanan/178-breaking-down-the-fcs-class-at-the-nfl-combine

[Bison Dan]

McSurdy is a guy who will fly up boards if he runs 4.75 or better. Most think he is a 4.80-4.85 guy so running sub 4.7s would likely put him in the 5th-6th round range.
Saw him play against SHSU and wasn't impressed. He seemed slow and had some missed tackles. Maybe he just had a bad game. He did have a pick 6 I think but still speed is everything at the NFL level.

[Grizcountry420]

Saw him play against SHSU and wasn't impressed. He seemed slow and had some missed tackles. Maybe he just had a bad game. He did have a pick 6 I think but still speed is everything at the NFL level.

Yeah he's real slow.. That 61 yard pick 6 he took to the house just goes to show how slow the guy really is. Derp!

[LehighU11]

The coach comment was in jest and in reference to this...http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7375538/yale-bulldogs-coach-tom-williams-resigns-due-rhodes-scholarship-fib

Witt struck me as one of the worst quarterbacks Lehigh faced all year. He threw countless passes into the turf at the feet of receivers. 12 of 31 for 120 yards with 2 picks, 1 TD, and 4 sacks are pretty humble numbers for any QB, let alone a potential invite to the combine. Maybe he was nervous with talk of a couple NFL scouts in attendance.

Witt may have a stronger arm than Lum, which I didn't notice, but is nowhere near as accurate (65.9% against far better teams vs 62.0%). From seeing Skelton and Rudolph play against a similar Lehigh D in past years, Witt performed nowhere near their level.

[smallcollegefbfan]

The coach comment was in jest and in reference to this...http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7375538/yale-bulldogs-coach-tom-williams-resigns-due-rhodes-scholarship-fib

Witt struck me as one of the worst quarterbacks Lehigh faced all year. He threw countless passes into the turf at the feet of receivers. 12 of 31 for 120 yards with 2 picks, 1 TD, and 4 sacks are pretty humble numbers for any QB, let alone a potential invite to the combine. Maybe he was nervous with talk of a couple NFL scouts in attendance.

Witt may have a stronger arm than Lum, which I didn't notice, but is nowhere near as accurate (65.9% against far better teams vs 62.0%). From seeing Skelton and Rudolph play against a similar Lehigh D in past years, Witt performed nowhere near their level.

No you are right he isn't as accurate. I know Witt had like all 32 NFL teams come in to see him.

I think Skelton is a better prospect than Witt and like I told you he just flashes. Some games I gave him a 4.4 grade and then other a 5.4 grade. That is a range of a tryout player to a 5th round pick, which is a big range. Not consistent enough to draft IMO.

[Engineer86]

No you are right he isn't as accurate. I know Witt had like all 32 NFL teams come in to see him.

I think Skelton is a better prospect than Witt and like I told you he just flashes. Some games I gave him a 4.4 grade and then other a 5.4 grade. That is a range of a tryout player to a 5th round pick, which is a big range. Not consistent enough to draft IMO.

UNH QB was much more impressive from what I saw. Witt was not impressive at all, gotta question what team would want to depend on him.

[Engineer86]

No you are right he isn't as accurate. I know Witt had like all 32 NFL teams come in to see him.

I think Skelton is a better prospect than Witt and like I told you he just flashes. Some games I gave him a 4.4 grade and then other a 5.4 grade. That is a range of a tryout player to a 5th round pick, which is a big range. Not consistent enough to draft IMO.

UNH QB was much more impressive from what I saw. Witt was not impressive at all, gotta question what team would want to depend on him.

[smallcollegefbfan]

UNH QB was much more impressive from what I saw. Witt was not impressive at all, gotta question what team would want to depend on him.

Decker is definitely a better college QB. I can tell you from watching them that Witt is the better NFL prospect or the one that NFL scouts will like more than Decker. It's one of those things you just know when you see it when you have been scouting for a long time. Witt has some games though where he looked pretty good. He can put touch on the ball and has some throws where he delivers a very nice ball. I think as a fan you guys maybe see one game and can get too high or too low on a guy. Watch about 4-6 games on a guy and then you have a very good gauge at what he is. Make sure too that they are games against quality opponents. Watching Decker against Albany when you can pick UMASS, Richmond, Delaware, Maine, etc. wouldn't be smart just as if watching a Albany QB you should check out games against Maine, etc. opposed to watching St. Francis, Duquesne, etc.

[Mr. C]

The NFL looks at tools when it looks at guys like Witt. But after seeing him several times in person over the past three years, including twice this season, I wouldn't waste any time on him. He also has character issues that will likely be held against him. The fact that someone like Witt is getting some looks shows you just how weak the quarterback pool has become for the NFL.

[smallcollegefbfan]

The NFL looks at tools when it looks at guys like Witt. But after seeing him several times in person over the past three years, including twice this season, I wouldn't waste any time on him. He also has character issues that will likely be held against him. The fact that someone like Witt is getting some looks shows you just how weak the quarterback pool has become for the NFL.

What will show that even more is that BJ Coleman might go in the 5th round and he would not have been drafted back in the 90s. It's weak. That's why there is a certain QB for next year from FCS who is going to be a top 100 pick because he blows Witt, Coleman, and all the others out of the water so he will be drawn up the board.

[chattownmocs]

What will show that even more is that BJ Coleman might go in the 5th round and he would not have been drafted back in the 90s. It's weak. That's why there is a certain QB for next year from FCS who is going to be a top 100 pick because he blows Witt, Coleman, and all the others out of the water so he will be drawn up the board.

Coleman is basically a consensus top 10 QB. He isn't even borderline. Nice try though.

[Mr. C]

Coleman is basically a consensus top 10 QB. He isn't even borderline. Nice try though.

And like the post said, Coleman is a player that, based on his skill set, would not have been given a second glance 20 years ago. The only reason that Witt and Coleman are in the mix is because college football isn't producing much NFL-caliber QB talent any more. You have starting QBs in the NFL right now that wouldn't have played in previous decades.

[Mr. C]

What will show that even more is that BJ Coleman might go in the 5th round and he would not have been drafted back in the 90s. It's weak. That's why there is a certain QB for next year from FCS who is going to be a top 100 pick because he blows Witt, Coleman, and all the others out of the water so he will be drawn up the board.

Two quarterbacks to keep an eye on from the FCS ranks in the next two years are Brad Sorenson from Southern Utah and Jeff Matthews of Cornell. Now those are some prototype NFL QBs.

[chattownmocs]

And like the post said, Coleman is a player that, based on his skill set, would not have been given a second glance 20 years ago. The only reason that Witt and Coleman are in the mix is because college football isn't producing much NFL-caliber QB talent any more. You have starting QBs in the NFL right now that wouldn't have played in previous decades.

So they QB position has regressed in the last 20 years? LOL. You might want to go back and check on that again buddy.

[chattownmocs]

And like the post said, Coleman is a player that, based on his skill set, would not have been given a second glance 20 years ago. The only reason that Witt and Coleman are in the mix is because college football isn't producing much NFL-caliber QB talent any more. You have starting QBs in the NFL right now that wouldn't have played in previous decades.

So they QB position has regressed in the last 20 years? LOL. You might want to go back and check on that again buddy.

[Silenoz]

Coleman is basically a consensus top 10 QB. He isn't even borderline. Nice try though.

Seriously dude... do you even read what you're writing, or what people posted?

"Nice try" acting like you have 1/100th the knowledge in this matter that SCFBF does

[chattownmocs]

Seriously dude... do you even read what you're writing, or what people posted?

"Nice try" acting like you have 1/100th the knowledge in this matter that SCFBF does

I have infinitely more knowledge than him. The QB has progressed leaps and bounds since even 15 years ago. It isn't even up for debate. The players that are coming out of college are far more advanced. Especially the guys that are at the middle or towards the end of a draft. It isn't even close. Just because he gives himself a generic name and comes out with these remedial lists doesn't change the fact that he is just another App State homer with a worthless opinion.

[Silenoz]

I come here to get away from dealing with JBB, but then I have to deal with this reading this tool's posts. Stupid FCS boards! xlolx


McSurdy is a guy who will fly up boards if he runs 4.75 or better. Most think he is a 4.80-4.85 guy so running sub 4.7s would likely put him in the 5th-6th round range.
Any reason for hist stock increasing? I thought I had heard that his January bowl game performance had hurt it

[Mr. C]

So they QB position has regressed in the last 20 years? LOL. You might want to go back and check on that again buddy.

You are obviously lacking in football IQ. How many years have you followed the game? I can break down just about every QB from the 1960s forward and I've been covering the game for 35 years. How about you? Put your money where your mouth is, if you want to get into a debate about QBs. So why are Coleman and the rest of the draft class better than the guys 20 years ago? Outside of Luck and maybe Griffin, there are no sure things among QBs in this draft class.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Coleman is basically a consensus top 10 QB. He isn't even borderline. Nice try though.

So was Pat Devlin and he went undrafted. You really need to relax with your homer statements here. Coleman is a top 10 QB in terms of talent but he doesn't play like it. He gets rattled and throws picks. He was awful this year but did well during the Shrine Game. He had what 9 TDs and 9 INTs and was hurt. He had a bad year.

Now with that said, if Coleman can stay healthy and improve his accuracy in big game situations he has a chance to be a good #2.

And like Mr. C said, 20 years ago, Coleman is a free agent and at best a #3 QB. Because QB is so weak right now guys like he, Witt, etc. are getting stronger looks. Next year though there is a FCS QB who is the real deal who is the best, by far, since Flacco and I think this kid will only go lower in the draft because he is 2 inches shorter and arm is not quite as strong, but still strong. I'm talking about the Southern Utah QB. His worst game was UNLV, from what I saw, and I still gave him a 5th round grade in that game.

[Mr. C]

I have infinitely more knowledge than him. The QB has progressed leaps and bounds since even 15 years ago. It isn't even up for debate. The players that are coming out of college are far more advanced. Especially the guys that are at the middle or towards the end of a draft. It isn't even close. Just because he gives himself a generic name and comes out with these remedial lists doesn't change the fact that he is just another App State homer with a worthless opinion.

Did you know this guy watches tons of game film on EVERY FCS team and has the ear of people in the NFL? Did you know he has actually been invited to the combine several times and has worked with NFL teams? I'd value his opinion on the subject of FCS players with NFL aspirations about as highly as anyone. You are out of your league yet again.

[Mr. C]

I have infinitely more knowledge than him. The QB has progressed leaps and bounds since even 15 years ago. It isn't even up for debate. The players that are coming out of college are far more advanced. Especially the guys that are at the middle or towards the end of a draft. It isn't even close. Just because he gives himself a generic name and comes out with these remedial lists doesn't change the fact that he is just another App State homer with a worthless opinion.

Did you know this guy watches tons of game film on EVERY FCS team and has the ear of people in the NFL? Did you know he has actually been invited to the combine several times and has worked with NFL teams? I'd value his opinion on the subject of FCS players with NFL aspirations about as highly as anyone. You are out of your league yet again.

[Mr. C]

To whet your appetite for the NFL combine, here is another column from College Sports Journal (www.college-sports-journal.com) on the subject:


By David Coulson
Executive Editor
College Sports Journal

BOONE, N.C. — I'll never forget the first time I heard the name Brian Quick mentioned.

I was in the football office at Appalachian State's Owens Field House on national signing day in 2007 when I bumped into two Mountaineer assistants, Mark Spier and Dale Jones.

Coming off of back-to-back national championships, the two defensive assistants were beaming about the class of recruits that had been inked that day.

But there was one unknown that Spier — ASU's recruiting coordinator until recently taking the head coaching job at Western Carolina — couldn't keep from gushing about.

Speir couldn't say enough good things about Brian Quick, a 6-foot-4 basketball player who had waited until his senior year at Ridge View High School in Columbia, S.C. to begin playing organized football.

"You watch this kid," Spier said. "He is going to be a good one."

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/78-college-sports-journal/david-coulson/179-nfl-combine-quicks-success-not-a-surprise-to-some

[smallcollegefbfan]

I have infinitely more knowledge than him. The QB has progressed leaps and bounds since even 15 years ago. It isn't even up for debate. The players that are coming out of college are far more advanced. Especially the guys that are at the middle or towards the end of a draft. It isn't even close. Just because he gives himself a generic name and comes out with these remedial lists doesn't change the fact that he is just another App State homer with a worthless opinion.

I'm not an App State homer. You really need to chill with your name calling and I don't like touting my credentials but what makes you such an expert? Ever worked in the NFL or for an all-star game? How many GMs do you talk to? Were you a great player in college? How many Super Bowl rings or national titles have you won?

Not being a jerk here, I am trying to find out what makes you so smart on this. And I'm not against you. But to be honest you sound like a UTC homer who has no clue with everyone disagreeing with you and not one UTC fan backing you up.

Yes Coleman has talent but he did not play up to that talent. He has potential, which means he hasn't done it yet.

Every team I have talked to about Coleman, about 12 so far, have told me he has the physical tools but he had a bad year. They also agree with me that he is a free agent type player who will go in the 5th or 6th round because of his size, arm strength, and the poor QB class. NFL teams don't think much of the QB group after the top 3 and to be honest I must say when Jacory Harris, Patrick Witt, etc. are invited to the Combine it does not bode well for the position.

QBs with big arms get drawn up the board higher than they should just like 6'0 or taller corners with 4.4 or better speed and even a 6'7 or 6'8 tackle who can run a sub 5.1 or better because there are so few, let alone good ones, out there.

[UNHFan]

SS Jerron McMillian of Maine got his invite to the combine.

http://mainecampus.com/2012/01/27/football-standout-mcmillian-invited-to-nfl-combine/?ref=hp

Maine 2011 Squad was a few players from National Champs...gave Pitt fits!

[chattownmocs]

1992 NFL draft

1. David Klingler- put up monster numbers as a system QB in college. The NFL has learned it's lesson on QBs like this. Would have a lower grade than Weeden. May or may not be ahead of Coleman.

2. Tommy Maddox- Would have a decent draft grade in this draft. Probably not in the top 5. Had a good career at UCLA 33 tds 30 ints in 2 seasons. But probably wouldn't be among the top 5 QBs taken.

3. Matt Blundin- Big guy with a strong arm. Very efficient in his one season starting in college. Would get a high grade, would probably be the 3rd or 4th QB taken in this year's draft.

4. Had nice size and a decent arm. Completed over 50% of his passes only once in his college career. Not a very smart guy. Would go after BJ Coleman in this year's draft.

5. Craig Erickson- 6'2 200 lbs. Not great size. Decent stats from a winning program. Would probably not get drafted in this class.

6. Casey Weldon- A little bit ubndersized. Good College QB, would not be drafted.

7. Will Furrer- Free Agent in this year's draft

8. Chris Hakel- Probably wouldn't get drafted

9. Jeff Blake- Good College QB. Had a decent NFL career. Would definitely not be drafted today however.

10. Ricky Jones- not a chance

11. Kent Graham- no

12. Bucky Richardson- dream on Bucky

13. Mike Pawlaski- no

14. Brad Johnson- college backup. Had a nice career and nice size etc.

15. T.J. Rubley- not a prayer

16. Ty Detmer- was very small. Turned out to be better than anyone could have imagined. Would not be drafted.

17. Mark Barsotti- Not a prayer

18. Keithan Mccant- no

19. Cornelius Benton- You have got to be kidding me

20. Matt Rodgers- simply, no



20 QBs taken the best was probably Brad Johnson. Not a single great QB. The decent ones were taken after round 7. Maybe 5 Would be drafted today.

The QB position was a complete crapshoot 20 years ago.

[smallcollegefbfan]

1992 NFL draft

1. David Klingler- put up monster numbers as a system QB in college. The NFL has learned it's lesson on QBs like this. Would have a lower grade than Weeden. May or may not be ahead of Coleman.

2. Tommy Maddox- Would have a decent draft grade in this draft. Probably not in the top 5. Had a good career at UCLA 33 tds 30 ints in 2 seasons. But probably wouldn't be among the top 5 QBs taken.

3. Matt Blundin- Big guy with a strong arm. Very efficient in his one season starting in college. Would get a high grade, would probably be the 3rd or 4th QB taken in this year's draft.

4. Had nice size and a decent arm. Completed over 50% of his passes only once in his college career. Not a very smart guy. Would go after BJ Coleman in this year's draft.

5. Craig Erickson- 6'2 200 lbs. Not great size. Decent stats from a winning program. Would probably not get drafted in this class.

6. Casey Weldon- A little bit ubndersized. Good College QB, would not be drafted.

7. Will Furrer- Free Agent in this year's draft

8. Chris Hakel- Probably wouldn't get drafted

9. Jeff Blake- Good College QB. Had a decent NFL career. Would definitely not be drafted today however.

10. Ricky Jones- not a chance

11. Kent Graham- no

12. Bucky Richardson- dream on Bucky

13. Mike Pawlaski- no

14. Brad Johnson- college backup. Had a nice career and nice size etc.

15. T.J. Rubley- not a prayer

16. Ty Detmer- was very small. Turned out to be better than anyone could have imagined. Would not be drafted.

17. Mark Barsotti- Not a prayer

18. Keithan Mccant- no

19. Cornelius Benton- You have got to be kidding me

20. Matt Rodgers- simply, no



20 QBs taken the best was probably Brad Johnson. Not a single great QB. The decent ones were taken after round 7. Maybe 5 Would be drafted today.

The QB position was a complete crapshoot 20 years ago.

Scouting was more a crapshoot back then. It is changed a lot. QB play in the NFL was up 15 years ago compared to today. The only reason numbers are as good as they have been are the fact that some teams throw the ball that much more. The league has evolved from a running league to a passing league. Teams are definitely throwing the ball a lot more than they would have in previous years.

I'll first say I was not a huge Devlin fan. I had him rated as late round guy who I thought could be a #3 or practice squad type guy and I see Coleman was better but I don't see Coleman as a definite star. And the only reason just about every draft website has him as a top 10 QB is because of the high grades the NFL scouting services gave him in the spring. His senior year did not warrant a draftable grade but in his defense while I was ready to really drop him if he didn't do well at the Shrine.. he played very well and made me believe he should definitely be drafted. But don't be mistaken, a bad performance there and I think he would have fallen just like Devlin did last year.

And as far as QBs. You said 20 taken in that year. Do you know what the average is now? It's like 14 or 15. So yes the QB position is down compared to where it use to be. Not nearly as many pro style QBs and with the position changing I think it will change in the NFL to become what guys like Cam Newton are doing.

[chattownmocs]

QB play in the NFL was up 15 years ago compared to today

Not sure if serious. Brett Favre and Elway were the best QBs then. They weren't close to *** efficient as QBs are today. Look at QB rating, look at completion percentage. Look at how productive these offenses are. Some is because of the rules, most is because of the advancement of the position. Favre arguably played at a higher level his last year in Green Bay and his first year in Minnesota than he did in his MVP seasons. Peyton Manning was playing the QB position at as high a level as it had ever been played earlier in the decade, now we have 5 guys playing at that level. As far as depth goes sure, there are probably only about 20 guys in the NFL that are good enough to start, but there have never been anymore than that. The worst starters have always not really been good enough.

And the only reason just about every draft website has him as a top 10 QB is because of the high grades the NFL scouting services gave him in the spring. His senior year did not warrant a draftable grade but in his defense while I was ready to really drop him if he didn't do well at the Shrine..

Patently false. His draft stock was as high going into the senior bowl as it was going into his senior season. Leaving the senior bowl it was the highest it has ever been. Noone really cares type of numbers he put up as a senior. What they are about is size, Arm strength, intangibles, intelligence, and whether the flaws in his mechanics can be fixed. That is why he is going to get drafted. What he does this weekend will solidify him as at worst the 7th QB.

And as far as QBs. You said 20 taken in that year. Do you know what the average is now? It's like 14 or 15. So yes the QB position is down compared to where it use to be.

For a so called expert your logic is flawed. The fact that 20 mediocre QBs were taken speaks more to the quality of the QB that was in the league than the QBs being taken. More teams needed QBs.

[alvinkayak6]

The coach comment was in jest and in reference to this...http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7375538/yale-bulldogs-coach-tom-williams-resigns-due-rhodes-scholarship-fib

Witt struck me as one of the worst quarterbacks Lehigh faced all year. He threw countless passes into the turf at the feet of receivers. 12 of 31 for 120 yards with 2 picks, 1 TD, and 4 sacks are pretty humble numbers for any QB, let alone a potential invite to the combine. Maybe he was nervous with talk of a couple NFL scouts in attendance.

Witt may have a stronger arm than Lum, which I didn't notice, but is nowhere near as accurate (65.9% against far better teams vs 62.0%). From seeing Skelton and Rudolph play against a similar Lehigh D in past years, Witt performed nowhere near their level.

He has the branding of Nebraska and Yale regardless of whether or not he would be more likely to be President as opposed to NFL MVP.

[PaladinFan]

I'm not an App State homer. You really need to chill with your name calling and I don't like touting my credentials but what makes you such an expert? Ever worked in the NFL or for an all-star game? How many GMs do you talk to? Were you a great player in college? How many Super Bowl rings or national titles have you won?

Not being a jerk here, I am trying to find out what makes you so smart on this. And I'm not against you. But to be honest you sound like a UTC homer who has no clue with everyone disagreeing with you and not one UTC fan backing you up.

Yes Coleman has talent but he did not play up to that talent. He has potential, which means he hasn't done it yet.

Every team I have talked to about Coleman, about 12 so far, have told me he has the physical tools but he had a bad year. They also agree with me that he is a free agent type player who will go in the 5th or 6th round because of his size, arm strength, and the poor QB class. NFL teams don't think much of the QB group after the top 3 and to be honest I must say when Jacory Harris, Patrick Witt, etc. are invited to the Combine it does not bode well for the position.

QBs with big arms get drawn up the board higher than they should just like 6'0 or taller corners with 4.4 or better speed and even a 6'7 or 6'8 tackle who can run a sub 5.1 or better because there are so few, let alone good ones, out there.

A question that has been rolling in my head, and you seem to be the man to ask...

Is there any discussion at all of Chris Forcier? I can understand Forcier had significant playing time in one season out of five, which I know hurts his stock. This season, running a pro-style offense, he lead the nation in passer efficiency and was a first team all conference quarterback. To me, he's got size and speed to be of interest, and his numbers suggest that when he throws the ball his teammates tend to catch it (a skill often overlooked, I think).

I have seen him listed as a WR. Suprising, to me. He's got the size and speed to play the position, I think, but as best I can tell, he's never played a snap at the position in college. I know its not unheard of to go after college QBs to play receiver, but is that the only position he gets a look for in the NFL? Does he get a look at all?

[PaladinFan]

QB play in the NFL was up 15 years ago compared to today

Not sure if serious. Brett Favre and Elway were the best QBs then. They weren't close to *** efficient as QBs are today. Look at QB rating, look at completion percentage. Look at how productive these offenses are. Some is because of the rules, most is because of the advancement of the position. Favre arguably played at a higher level his last year in Green Bay and his first year in Minnesota than he did in his MVP seasons. Peyton Manning was playing the QB position at as high a level as it had ever been played earlier in the decade, now we have 5 guys playing at that level. As far as depth goes sure, there are probably only about 20 guys in the NFL that are good enough to start, but there have never been anymore than that. The worst starters have always not really been good enough.

And the only reason just about every draft website has him as a top 10 QB is because of the high grades the NFL scouting services gave him in the spring. His senior year did not warrant a draftable grade but in his defense while I was ready to really drop him if he didn't do well at the Shrine..

Patently false. His draft stock was as high going into the senior bowl as it was going into his senior season. Leaving the senior bowl it was the highest it has ever been. Noone really cares type of numbers he put up as a senior. What they are about is size, Arm strength, intangibles, intelligence, and whether the flaws in his mechanics can be fixed. That is why he is going to get drafted. What he does this weekend will solidify him as at worst the 7th QB.

And as far as QBs. You said 20 taken in that year. Do you know what the average is now? It's like 14 or 15. So yes the QB position is down compared to where it use to be.

For a so called expert your logic is flawed. The fact that 20 mediocre QBs were taken speaks more to the quality of the QB that was in the league than the QBs being taken. More teams needed QBs.

I think it's somewhat relative. There aren't but two or three "great" defenses left in college football. Even in the NFL the best teams give up a staggering amount of yardage. From my general observations, today's NFL has some of the weakest defenses I've ever seen. I think much of that has to do with the advent of the spread offense.

It is really a circular argument. Do quarterbacks have better numbers because the defenses are weaker? Or are defenses weaker because the quarterback play is better?

[Mr. C]

Another thread highjacked by Chattownmocs. There are other FCS players than the mediocre B.J. Coleman that are involved in the NFL combine.

[boonedocks]

I think it's somewhat relative. There aren't but two or three "great" defenses left in college football. Even in the NFL the best teams give up a staggering amount of yardage. From my general observations, today's NFL has some of the weakest defenses I've ever seen. I think much of that has to do with the advent of the spread offense.

It is really a circular argument. Do quarterbacks have better numbers because the defenses are weaker? Or are defenses weaker because the quarterback play is better?

I think a lot of it has to do with changes in the rules as well. 10 years ago, you could be a lot more physical in the secondary. The NFL has adopted rules and made rule changes that benefit the offenses. Particularly the passing game. That has made a big difference in yardage/scoring/passing stats etc. Teams pass more now, and the way offenses are designed helps take advantage of that.

I think it is circular in that regard as well. Pass more because its easier than it used to be. By passing more, you get better at it, etc.

[Mr. C]

1992 NFL draft

1. David Klingler- put up monster numbers as a system QB in college. The NFL has learned it's lesson on QBs like this. Would have a lower grade than Weeden. May or may not be ahead of Coleman.

2. Tommy Maddox- Would have a decent draft grade in this draft. Probably not in the top 5. Had a good career at UCLA 33 tds 30 ints in 2 seasons. But probably wouldn't be among the top 5 QBs taken.

3. Matt Blundin- Big guy with a strong arm. Very efficient in his one season starting in college. Would get a high grade, would probably be the 3rd or 4th QB taken in this year's draft.

4. Had nice size and a decent arm. Completed over 50% of his passes only once in his college career. Not a very smart guy. Would go after BJ Coleman in this year's draft.

5. Craig Erickson- 6'2 200 lbs. Not great size. Decent stats from a winning program. Would probably not get drafted in this class.

6. Casey Weldon- A little bit ubndersized. Good College QB, would not be drafted.

7. Will Furrer- Free Agent in this year's draft

8. Chris Hakel- Probably wouldn't get drafted

9. Jeff Blake- Good College QB. Had a decent NFL career. Would definitely not be drafted today however.

10. Ricky Jones- not a chance

11. Kent Graham- no

12. Bucky Richardson- dream on Bucky

13. Mike Pawlaski- no

14. Brad Johnson- college backup. Had a nice career and nice size etc.

15. T.J. Rubley- not a prayer

16. Ty Detmer- was very small. Turned out to be better than anyone could have imagined. Would not be drafted.

17. Mark Barsotti- Not a prayer

18. Keithan Mccant- no

19. Cornelius Benton- You have got to be kidding me

20. Matt Rodgers- simply, no



20 QBs taken the best was probably Brad Johnson. Not a single great QB. The decent ones were taken after round 7. Maybe 5 Would be drafted today.

The QB position was a complete crapshoot 20 years ago.

I wasn't just referring the players DRAFTED 20 years ago. Maybe 1992 was just a bad draft class, some years are. I was referring to the quarterbacks that were in the league 20 years (and 30 years ago and 40 years ago), not the rookies. And if you want to go further back, one of the greatest decades for quarterback play in the NFL was the 1960s. Guys like Sonny Jurgensen, Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Daryl Lamonica, Len Dawson, Roman Gabriel, John Brodie, John Hadl, Jack Kemp etc. would feast on the modern passing rules.

[smallcollegefbfan]

QB play in the NFL was up 15 years ago compared to today

Not sure if serious. Brett Favre and Elway were the best QBs then. They weren't close to *** efficient as QBs are today. Look at QB rating, look at completion percentage. Look at how productive these offenses are. Some is because of the rules, most is because of the advancement of the position. Favre arguably played at a higher level his last year in Green Bay and his first year in Minnesota than he did in his MVP seasons. Peyton Manning was playing the QB position at as high a level as it had ever been played earlier in the decade, now we have 5 guys playing at that level. As far as depth goes sure, there are probably only about 20 guys in the NFL that are good enough to start, but there have never been anymore than that. The worst starters have always not really been good enough.

And the only reason just about every draft website has him as a top 10 QB is because of the high grades the NFL scouting services gave him in the spring. His senior year did not warrant a draftable grade but in his defense while I was ready to really drop him if he didn't do well at the Shrine..

Patently false. His draft stock was as high going into the senior bowl as it was going into his senior season. Leaving the senior bowl it was the highest it has ever been. Noone really cares type of numbers he put up as a senior. What they are about is size, Arm strength, intangibles, intelligence, and whether the flaws in his mechanics can be fixed. That is why he is going to get drafted. What he does this weekend will solidify him as at worst the 7th QB.

And as far as QBs. You said 20 taken in that year. Do you know what the average is now? It's like 14 or 15. So yes the QB position is down compared to where it use to be.

For a so called expert your logic is flawed. The fact that 20 mediocre QBs were taken speaks more to the quality of the QB that was in the league than the QBs being taken. More teams needed QBs.

Go print out the ratings for the 2013 NFL Draft on every website right now. Then go print them out in July and see how much they have changed. What I'm saying is that the NFL scouting services, not websites but the services NFL teams ACTUALLY PAY for, gave Coleman a 5th and 4th round grade LAST SPRING! The NFL Draft websites saw this and quickly moved him into their top 10 QBs. So yes he has been there since last summer. What I'm telling you is that none of them moved him during the season because they didn't actually watch him play for the most part. Most of them kept him where they had him and waited to see him in the postseason. He played well at the Shrine Game so nobody dropped him like they did Devlin last year. Devlin was rated even higher heading into the season than Coleman was and you see how far he dropped.

Maybe you didn't know that is how the system worked but it is.

Yes the NFL is a QB starving league right now and to be honest if there were 20 QBs worth taking they would take them. To be honest only about 8-9 a year have been but teams take about 15 because they continue to reach. I think 12 were taken last year. That is how bad the QBs are that they took 12 and yet about 8 or 9 were only good enough to get drafted.

[blueballs]

Another thread highjacked by Chattownmocs. There are other FCS players than the mediocre B.J. Coleman that are involved in the NFL combine.

Quite true Mr. C...

You know, I saw Coleman 3 times against GSU and he never impressed me. Among the non-option QB's in the SoCon during that period I would take Edwards, Forcier, Pressley, and Riddle over him without hesitation and would rank him alongside Taliaferro from Samford and the coach's son from Furman that graduated in 2010 (whose name escapes me).

The guy never made a big play that I saw, never won a big game, and never led a team to either a winning record or a playoff berth. I think unspectacularly mediocre to slightly below average would sum it up nicely.

[PaladinFan]

Quite true Mr. C...

You know, I saw Coleman 3 times against GSU and he never impressed me. Among the non-option QB's in the SoCon during that period I would take Edwards, Forcier, Pressley, and Riddle over him without hesitation and would rank him alongside Taliaferro from Samford and the coach's son from Furman that graduated in 2010 (whose name escapes me).

The guy never made a big play that I saw, never won a big game, and never led a team to either a winning record or a playoff berth. I think unspectacularly mediocre to slightly below average would sum it up nicely.

Jordan Sorrells. An example of a three star SoCon player that didn't really live up to the hype.

[Mr. C]

Go print out the ratings for the 2013 NFL Draft on every website right now. Then go print them out in July and see how much they have changed. What I'm saying is that the NFL scouting services, not websites but the services NFL teams ACTUALLY PAY for, gave Coleman a 5th and 4th round grade LAST SPRING! The NFL Draft websites saw this and quickly moved him into their top 10 QBs. So yes he has been there since last summer. What I'm telling you is that none of them moved him during the season because they didn't actually watch him play for the most part. Most of them kept him where they had him and waited to see him in the postseason. He played well at the Shrine Game so nobody dropped him like they did Devlin last year. Devlin was rated even higher heading into the season than Coleman was and you see how far he dropped.

Maybe you didn't know that is how the system worked but it is.

Yes the NFL is a QB starving league right now and to be honest if there were 20 QBs worth taking they would take them. To be honest only about 8-9 a year have been but teams take about 15 because they continue to reach. I think 12 were taken last year. That is how bad the QBs are that they took 12 and yet about 8 or 9 were only good enough to get drafted.

The fact that Tim Tebow has a starting job as a QB in the NFL right now speaks volumes on what has happened to the position.

[chattownmocs]

Quite true Mr. C...

You know, I saw Coleman 3 times against GSU and he never impressed me. Among the non-option QB's in the SoCon during that period I would take Edwards, Forcier, Pressley, and Riddle over him without hesitation and would rank him alongside Taliaferro from Samford and the coach's son from Furman that graduated in 2010 (whose name escapes me).

The guy never made a big play that I saw, never won a big game, and never led a team to either a winning record. I think unspectacularly mediocre to slightly below average would sum it up nicely.



lol

[chattownmocs]

The fact that Tim Tebow has a starting job as a QB in the NFL right now speaks volumes on what has happened to the position.

I've seen alot of dumb arguments on here, but the idea that the QB position is regressing takes the cake. It is just absolutely assinine.

[LakesBison]

NDSU's Paul Cornick OT & Matt Veldman will be at combine.

why wasnt DJ, Boyer , Evans invited?

[chattownmocs]

Go print out the ratings for the 2013 NFL Draft on every website right now. Then go print them out in July and see how much they have changed. What I'm saying is that the NFL scouting services, not websites but the services NFL teams ACTUALLY PAY for, gave Coleman a 5th and 4th round grade LAST SPRING! The NFL Draft websites saw this and quickly moved him into their top 10 QBs. So yes he has been there since last summer. What I'm telling you is that none of them moved him during the season because they didn't actually watch him play for the most part. Most of them kept him where they had him and waited to see him in the postseason. He played well at the Shrine Game so nobody dropped him like they did Devlin last year. Devlin was rated even higher heading into the season than Coleman was and you see how far he dropped.

Maybe you didn't know that is how the system worked but it is.

Yes the NFL is a QB starving league right now and to be honest if there were 20 QBs worth taking they would take them. To be honest only about 8-9 a year have been but teams take about 15 because they continue to reach. I think 12 were taken last year. That is how bad the QBs are that they took 12 and yet about 8 or 9 were only good enough to get drafted.

Scouts aren't going to change their opinion on BJ Coleman because he didn't play at a high enough level in the SOCON. They would change their grade on him if he showed that he didn't have the skill set that they previously thought. BJ Coleman (or any otehr QB at any level, except maybe tebow) has ever vbeen judged on their college football performance. It is all about how their skill sets translate to the NFL. Whether they have the talent etc. to play at the next level.

[smallcollegefbfan]

NDSU's Paul Cornick OT & Matt Veldman will be at combine.

why wasnt DJ, Boyer , Evans invited?

Evans is small and Boyer is tight in the hips so a lot of teams have written him off.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Scouts aren't going to change their opinion on BJ Coleman because he didn't play at a high enough level in the SOCON. They would change their grade on him if he showed that he didn't have the skill set that they previously thought. BJ Coleman (or any otehr QB at any level, except maybe tebow) has ever vbeen judged on their college football performance. It is all about how their skill sets translate to the NFL. Whether they have the talent etc. to play at the next level.

Obviously. That is what I said. He has size, a solid arm, etc. and that is why he is getting looks. It is not because he lit up the league, won big games, or was a great player. He has the tools the NFL is looking for so they are going to draft him and see if they can develop him.

And that's not true about the SoCon statement. They certainly do. Josh Norman was a 3rd-4th round grade from teams I talked to during the fall and he entered the season as a 7th-PFA type guy. If he can upgrade his stock in the Big South then a player can certainly do so from a tougher Southern Conference.

[Mr. C]

I've seen alot of dumb arguments on here, but the idea that the QB position is regressing takes the cake. It is just absolutely assinine.

The only dumb arguments on here are the ones made by you. You might want to learn to listen to people who are actually knowledgeable about subjects you know nothing about. You constantly argue with people who have forgotten more about football than you will ever know. Why don't you do us all a favor and disappear again?

[Mr. C]

I've seen alot of dumb arguments on here, but the idea that the QB position is regressing takes the cake. It is just absolutely assinine.

The only dumb arguments on here are the ones made by you. You might want to learn to listen to people who are actually knowledgeable about subjects you know nothing about. You constantly argue with people who have forgotten more about football than you will ever know. Why don't you do us all a favor and disappear again?

[Mr. C]

Here is the latest College Sports Journal column (www.college-sports-journal.com) from Josh Buchanan, wrapping up the winners and losers from the NFL combine. It also lists Buchanan's top-100 draftable FCS players and where they might find themselves.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/89-college-sports-journal/josh-buchanan/183-nfl-combine-recap-presbyterians-bethel-among-biggest-risers

[Mr. C]

Here is the latest College Sports Journal column (www.college-sports-journal.com) from Josh Buchanan, wrapping up the winners and losers from the NFL combine. It also lists Buchanan's top-100 draftable FCS players and where they might find themselves.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/89-college-sports-journal/josh-buchanan/183-nfl-combine-recap-presbyterians-bethel-among-biggest-risers