Phils Trade Valdez

[ngineer]

Wilson Valdez, the very versatile infielder and pitcher extraordinare, was traded to the Reds for a LH relief pitcher named Horst. While I know "it starts with pitching" I hope Amaro has something else cooking, because the Phils' bench/offense needs an upgrade for this year rather than just hoping all the 'walking wounded' from last year (Polanco,Rollins, Utley and Howard) will all come back 100%. Report noted Phils only have 38 on the 40 man roster at the moment, so I'm thinking something else will be happening, but trading away Valdez is troubling to me.

[PaladinFan]

I saw this come across the news wire a few days ago and it was a bit of a head scratcher.

This probably does not mean anything in the "something else will happen" category, other than it may mean they give Galvis a shot to compete with Michael Martinez for the reserve infielder role (or, with Howard's absence, let them both start the season on the ML roster). I looked at the Phillies major league roster, and the move makes sense if you consider Mayberry, Wigginton, Thome, and Schnider already have roster spots.

Granted, anything can happen, but this move strikes me as the Phillies having three or four reserve middle infielders (Galvis, Martinez, Valdez, Orr) and are still trying to bolster their left handed pitching (seems every deal they've made this offseason has returned them a LHP).

[PaladinFan]

I was wrong. Philadelphia signs Juan Pierre to a minor league contract. Philly has been handing out a lot of deals to some aging vets.

Perhaps the hardest I've laughed during a baseball broadcast dealt with Juan Pierre. Back when he played in the NL, the Braves announcers used to (late in the games) discuss the strength of the opposing outfielder's arms should a play at the plate be necessary. Don Sutton commented that Juan Pierre "couldn't throw out Long John Silver."

The idea of having such a bad arm that you couldn't gun down a one legged pirate just struck me funny.

[ngineer]

Yes, Pierre still shows he has some speed, which the Phils lack a bit and still a decent bat. But you are right that his arm could use a transplant.

[asumike83]

Can't knock the Pierre signing one bit. A low-risk minor league contract to a guy who hit .279 as a full-time starter last season and is only two years removed from a campaign with 68 stolen bases.

[PaladinFan]

Can't knock the Pierre signing one bit. A low-risk minor league contract to a guy who hit .279 as a full-time starter last season and is only two years removed from a campaign with 68 stolen bases.

No knocking at all. Pierre's a low risk minor league signing who, while not nearly the base stealer he was, still can provide some bench depth in a pinch.

Philly is up against the luxury tax, and is trying to avoid not going over (though Hunter Pence's arbitration may put them there anyway). The Phillies have a good roster as constructed, but I can see value in giving low cost deals to guys like this. Keeps them under the luxury tax, and also helps hold some spots in the minor league system until some of their talent can makes its way up.

[Ivytalk]

And they still need another big right-handed bat. I thought that was a principal objective this off-season.

[ngineer]

No knocking at all. Pierre's a low risk minor league signing who, while not nearly the base stealer he was, still can provide some bench depth in a pinch.

Philly is up against the luxury tax, and is trying to avoid not going over (though Hunter Pence's arbitration may put them there anyway). The Phillies have a good roster as constructed, but I can see value in giving low cost deals to guys like this. Keeps them under the luxury tax, and also helps hold some spots in the minor league system until some of their talent can makes its way up.

Phils avoided arbitration yesterday agreeing to $10.5M. I'm somewhat confused, as I thought the reports last year when the Phils traded for Pence was that he had two more years on his contract? Regardless, Amaro is definitely playing with the luxury tax borderline. I like the moves so far and I think they're about done. The two major RH bats will be Pence, Mayberry and Victorino (Switch hitter). Depending on how Utley comes through spring training, Chollie will have some interesting decisions on his batting lineup as to where Chase goes with the ol' "left-right-left" debate.

[ngineer]

I see the Phils' batting lineup Q's to be the main story at spring training. Assuming Howard returns by sometime in May:

Rollins
Polanco
Utley
Pence
Howard
Victorino
Mayberry
Ruiz

A lot of different possibilities,though with Victorino and Rollins be switchhitters. I assume Wiggington will be the primary 1B until Howard returns, and will be down around 6th or 7th.

[PaladinFan]

Phils avoided arbitration yesterday agreeing to $10.5M. I'm somewhat confused, as I thought the reports last year when the Phils traded for Pence was that he had two more years on his contract? Regardless, Amaro is definitely playing with the luxury tax borderline. I like the moves so far and I think they're about done. The two major RH bats will be Pence, Mayberry and Victorino (Switch hitter). Depending on how Utley comes through spring training, Chollie will have some interesting decisions on his batting lineup as to where Chase goes with the ol' "left-right-left" debate.

Once drafted, a team has your rights for six years. To simplify the rule (it gets complicated) a player may file for arbitration with three years of major league service. In those cases, the player will submit some number, and the team will submit some number. If the two sides don't work it out, it goes to a hearing before an arbiter, who decides the salary for the year. Teams and players both try to avoid such things as it is generally not good practice for a player and the team he works for to go into it over money in front of a third party.

While I don't know Pence's particular situation, the Astros would have owned his rights for six years. When he was traded, the Phillies then owned his rights for the remainder of that period. As he has at least three years of ML service, he qualifies for arbitration. So, in Pence's case, he can play for no one but Philadelphia, but the Phillies and Pence had to come to an agreement as to what his 2012 salary would be. If they couldn't, it went to arbitration and someone else would decide what the Phillies will pay him.

Some teams, Tampa Bay being one off the top of my head, will extend a player and buy out his arbitration years early on. They did that with Evan Longoria -- simply hedged their bets he would be successful, and paid him less than he would have made going to arbitration every year. The Giants have done completely the opposite with Tim Lincecum. I don't think Lincecum has played on anything other than one year deals.

*note, I've followed baseball a really long time, and a lot of this is really confusing. I think you have to have a PhD in this stuff to understand it, and I didn't even begin to cover "Super 2s" :)

[PhoenixSupreme]

Who's gonna get all those W's in extra-inning games now that Valdez is gone?

[PaladinFan]

Who's gonna get all those W's in extra-inning games now that Valdez is gone?

I'd never seen a statistic on it, but I would be shocked if most (if not all) major leaguers were pitchers at some point in their career. Many would have been the best athlete for 100 miles in any direction, so you'd better believe their coaches would have put them on the mound once or twice. It really isn't all that suprising when a position player who can already throw the ball upwards of 90 mph gets on the mound and does just that.

[PhoenixSupreme]

I'd never seen a statistic on it, but I would be shocked if most (if not all) major leaguers were pitchers at some point in their career. Many would have been the best athlete for 100 miles in any direction, so you'd better believe their coaches would have put them on the mound once or twice. It really isn't all that suprising when a position player who can already throw the ball upwards of 90 mph gets on the mound and does just that.

it's interesting that the reverse has occurred occasionally as well. The closer for the Cubs, Carlos Marmol, was scouted as and was initially in the farm system as a catcher before making the jump to pitcher.

[PaladinFan]

it's interesting that the reverse has occurred occasionally as well. The closer for the Cubs, Carlos Marmol, was scouted as and was initially in the farm system as a catcher before making the jump to pitcher.

Quite true. Jason Motte with the Cardinals was a converted catcher (though he has more of the catcher look than Marmol does).

At the end of the day, most major leaguers can really let the ball fly. Particularly true for those positions that necessarily require strong arms (Right, third, short, and catcher), where many major leagues can throw up in the low to mid 90s.

[ngineer]

Once drafted, a team has your rights for six years. To simplify the rule (it gets complicated) a player may file for arbitration with three years of major league service. In those cases, the player will submit some number, and the team will submit some number. If the two sides don't work it out, it goes to a hearing before an arbiter, who decides the salary for the year. Teams and players both try to avoid such things as it is generally not good practice for a player and the team he works for to go into it over money in front of a third party.

While I don't know Pence's particular situation, the Astros would have owned his rights for six years. When he was traded, the Phillies then owned his rights for the remainder of that period. As he has at least three years of ML service, he qualifies for arbitration. So, in Pence's case, he can play for no one but Philadelphia, but the Phillies and Pence had to come to an agreement as to what his 2012 salary would be. If they couldn't, it went to arbitration and someone else would decide what the Phillies will pay him.

Some teams, Tampa Bay being one off the top of my head, will extend a player and buy out his arbitration years early on. They did that with Evan Longoria -- simply hedged their bets he would be successful, and paid him less than he would have made going to arbitration every year. The Giants have done completely the opposite with Tim Lincecum. I don't think Lincecum has played on anything other than one year deals.

*note, I've followed baseball a really long time, and a lot of this is really confusing. I think you have to have a PhD in this stuff to understand it, and I didn't even begin to cover "Super 2s" :)

Thanks for the explanation. It sets my mind at ease, then, as I thought going to arbitration meant his "last year". I agree the Phils will likely want to do something long-term with him, but that is not as urgent at Hamels at the moment.

[PaladinFan]

Thanks for the explanation. It sets my mind at ease, then, as I thought going to arbitration meant his "last year". I agree the Phils will likely want to do something long-term with him, but that is not as urgent at Hamels at the moment.

I'm a big fan of MLBtraderumors.com. Not only is it a quick clearing house for baseball related information, but they also provide a laymen's glossary to some of the baseball financial terminology (which, admittedly, can be confusing). Here's the link to "arbitration." http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/arbitration.html

You see arbitration not only in the context of the "younger" guys, like Pence, but teams have the option of offering arbitration to departing free agents. That becomes particularly interesting when a guy qualifies as a Type "A" or "B", where if the original team offers arbitration to the free agent, and he signs with another team, the original team is awarded a draft pick of the signing team. This is why Philadelphia will surrender their first round draft pick to Boston for signing Papelbon.

The hearings are ususally the first week of February. In the entire universe of major league players, there's only a handful that appear to be heading to a hearing. Most are those where the players and teams are far apart. For instance, what the Red Sox think David Ortiz is worth is about $6 million different than what David Ortiz thinks he is worth.