Baseball's sacred numbers

[AppGuy04]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/listranker?id=494

[Gil Dobie]

At least I matched with Number 1 :)

[89Hen]

My top three as far as sacred to baseball would be...

1. Williams .400
2. DiMaggio 56
3. Rose 4,256

The rest aren't nearly in this class IMO because they are either unknown by the casual fan or unattainable in the case of Ripken's number. The DiMaggio one to me is the most ridiculous though. Who really cares if you get one hit in a game? I'd take total hits or average any day of the week. :twocents:

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The rest aren't nearly in this class IMO because they are either unknown by the casual fan or unattainable in the case of Ripken's number.

I think the Ripken consecutive game streak is more sacred because it will never be surpassed. The "unattainable" label you have given it just gives testament to how truly amazing it was.

[kardplayer]

I think the Ripken consecutive game streak is more sacred because it will never be surpassed. The "unattainable" label you have given it just gives testament to how truly amazing it was.


I have to agree here - Ripken's record is special because he did what no other player could or seemingly wanted to do - play every day.

There's a big part of me that believes that this is the main reason the O's said they would refuse to use replacement players if owners had chosen to go in that direction (I know the owner was also a labor lawyer, but I think that was his public reason).

Looking at it from that way, Ripken's streak saved baseball from the embarrassment that replacement players bring.

[AppGuy04]

My rankings:

1. Dimaggio
2. Williams
3. Ripken
4. Rose
5. Ryan

[blur2005]

Ted Williams hitting .406 has to be number one in terms of the most sacred numbers. As some of you said on this thread, no one will pass Ripken's consecutive games streak, but I'm almost just as confident no one will hit .400 again. Hitters like Williams, who had both power and consistency, just don't exist in today's game, except for maybe Albert Pujols (he's only going to strike out like 40 times this year at his current rate), and he won't hit .400. Tony Gwynn was probably the last player capable, and he managed .394, which was incredible. DiMaggio's streak is also probably unbeatable for similar reasons to what I gave for why no one will hit .400 again, but really, we should already know which of the top two in SportsNation (1. DiMaggio's streak, 2. Williams hitting over .400) is really the more important one: DiMaggio was voted MVP in 1941 when he got a hit 56 games in a row, while Williams batted .406 and finished second in the voting. As stated at the beginning, I think Williams' number is more sacred.

[TheValleyRaider]

The only thing about comparing .400 to 56 is that, like the article says, only one of them is actually a record. I know about comparing the marks across the ages and things. I just think that 56 is a tangible record that anyone can see and follow and track, much like the home runs. When it's a home run, you know it, just like another day with a basehit. DiMaggio also ended up batting .408 during the streak, so it's hardly just one dribbler a day. It'll be interesting to see if either mark can be touched, but .400 seems more accessible to me than 56, although both require a day-in day-out consistancy that 61 doesn't quite call for. :twocents:

[ngineer]

Williams .406, to me is #1. But one of my favorites is Hack Wilson's 190 RBI's in 1930. Many, including Pujols right now, make runs, but no one in 76 years has come really close. Also, the last Triple Crown in the NL was in the 1930's as well. The AL was in '67. Power and average--a rare combination.

[blur2005]

But one of my favorites is Hack Wilson's 190 RBI's in 1930.
That was on the list, but it's 191 as of about four years ago when statisticians discovered that he actually had one more RBI than was previously counted.

[Gil Dobie]

Here is one that was not mentioned, Ken Griffey Jr & Luis Gonzalez are the only recent non-suspected of steroids or non-steroid players to approach 61 home runs. Pujols could make that happen this year.

[AppGuy04]

They said last night, he was on pace for 80 and 203

[89Hen]

I just think that 56 is a tangible record that anyone can see and follow and track, much like the home runs. When it's a home run, you know it, just like another day with a basehit. DiMaggio also ended up batting .408 during the streak, so it's hardly just one dribbler a day. It'll be interesting to see if either mark can be touched, but .400 seems more accessible to me than 56, although both require a day-in day-out consistancy that 61 doesn't quite call for. :twocents:
:confused: The fact that DiMaggio hit .408 during the streak makes Williams number the more impressive one IMO. DiMaggio did it for 56 games, Williams did it for 143 games. DiMaggio's average was .357 for the year.

[foghorn]

I was not in high school yet when Maris hit #61 and broke the 'magic' Babe Ruth barrier of 60 home runs in a season. That, without a doubt, was THE most important record at the time. There was more controversy over that than anything else because Maris did it in 162 games as opposed to the Babe's 154; therefore the controversial *!
In retrospect, I'm more P.O.'d at Maguire than Bonds for that 'spinach' usage. I can still see the Maris family greeting Maguire when he hit #62 after he rounded the bases. That f'n phony! : smh :

[TheValleyRaider]

:confused: The fact that DiMaggio hit .408 during the streak makes Williams number the more impressive one IMO. DiMaggio did it for 56 games, Williams did it for 143 games. DiMaggio's average was .357 for the year.

And how many times did Williams go 0-fer during the course of the season, yet still wind up hitting .406? DiMaggio had a much lower margin for error, and one of those 0-something days meant no streak and no record. I'm not trying to take away from his accomplishment, only responding to the "one hit a game" comment you made. If you're hot enough to collect at least a hit a day in over 3 months of baseball, you're going to get more than just the one.

Besides, the question is which record will people really care about. Tracking someone gathering hits for a streak is more likely to grab attention than having to calculate the number everytime something happens. The simplicity of the streak (is it a hit, or not? Okay, another hit, another game in the streak) makes it more likely to gather attention in the way the home run chases did.

[89Hen]

32 out of 56 were one hit games, but that's not the point. Don't forget that Williams came into the final day (doubleheader) batting .399955 or .400 and given the option of sitting he instead played, so to say that DiMaggio had less room for error is not accurate. Imagine having FIVE months of record setting hitting come down to one day. Cripes 1 for 4 in each game would have put him down to .398 (he went 6-8 on the day). He also led the league in home runs (37), base on balls (147), runs (135), slugging average (.735), and on base percentage (.551). It was the single best year of baseball in history and baseball is a game about long seasons.

The question is which is more sacred. I take that to mean the most important to the game, not most popular with the fans to track. If we went with most popular, no doubt it would have to currently be Hank Aaron and 755 and before that Roger Maris and 61. Nothing captures the fans more than a HR chase.

[HiHiYikas]

The thing about sacred numbers is that they only become sacred when they're held by legendary players. In many cases, it's virtually impossible for a player to break a significant record without becoming legendary in the process. There are examples to the contrary, though. Nobody cares about the NFL or NBA ironman records (Jim Marshall, 270 games, AC Green, 1170 games), but the MLB ironman title has been held by two of baseball's most legendary players, so it gets lots of attention.

Some of my favorite sacred numbers in baseball:

58 - total pitches thrown by Boston Brave Red Barrett in a one-hour, fifteen-minute complete game shutout on August 10, 1944. 2 hits, no walks. (If Randy Johnson had done this, it would be the greatest thing ever)

4 - number of times Ty Cobb and Honus Wagner stole second, third, and home in the same inning (Cobb stole home 54 times.)

309 - career triples, Sam Crawford.

7 - Most World Series' won in a decade (Yankees, 1949-1958)

749 - Career complete games, Cy Young (about 110 more than second place)

110 - career shutouts by Walter Johnson (Clemens only needs 65 more to catch him)

46 - career inside-the-park home runs by Ty Cobb. One of Ruth's 60 was an inside-the-parker. Ruth is still the all-time single-season leader in combined inside-the-park and out-of-the-park homeruns. Or something like that.

24 - consecutive wins by Carl Hubbell, 1936-1937

[Gil Dobie]

There was more controversy over that than anything else because Maris did it in 162 games as opposed to the Babe's 154; therefore the controversial *!

Maris hit his in 162 game season is the controversy.
He actually hit 61 home runs in a 151 game span.
#1 in Game 11, and 61 in game 163.

***Maris still holds the American League Record with 61***

[ngineer]

32 out of 56 were one hit games, but that's not the point. Don't forget that Williams came into the final day (doubleheader) batting .399955 or .400 and given the option of sitting he instead played, so to say that DiMaggio had less room for error is not accurate. Imagine having FIVE months of record setting hitting come down to one day. Cripes 1 for 4 in each game would have put him down to .398 (he went 6-8 on the day). He also led the league in home runs (37), base on balls (147), runs (135), slugging average (.735), and on base percentage (.551). It was the single best year of baseball in history and baseball is a game about long seasons.

The question is which is more sacred. I take that to mean the most important to the game, not most popular with the fans to track. If we went with most popular, no doubt it would have to currently be Hank Aaron and 755 and before that Roger Maris and 61. Nothing captures the fans more than a HR chase.

Going from memory here, but I recall reading that when Joe D's streak ended (on a day he hit a HR that was just foul), he then proceeded to embark on a 30 game hitting streak after that--but for the foul HR, it would have been 86 games...:rotateh:

[JoltinJoe]

DiMag also holds the minor league record for hitting streak. He hit in 62 games while playing for the San Francisco Seals in the Pacific Coast League.

Here's some information my dad told me about DiMaggio's hitting streak. Prior to 1941, no one really paid attention to hitting streaks and few people knew who held the record (Wee Willie Keeler had hit in 44 straight games). DiMag actually in that sense invented the hitting streak.

When DiMag started his hitting streak, no one really was paying much attention. But as statisticians began realizing DiMag was amassing an impressive hitting streak, many of them actually had to dig through the old baseball records to discover what the record was. Soon everyone knew that DiMag's target was 44 games.

The thing about a hitting streak that captures the public's imagination is that it is easy to follow and it's all or nothing every night. You can chase a home run record all year but all the drama arises in September. My dad told me that his father, an Italian immigrant who had absolutely no interest in baseball, would wake him up at night to tell him that the radio broadcast from New York (they lived in coal-mining territory in northeastern Pennsylvania) had just delivered the news that the great DiMag had extended his streak.

DiMag's hitting streak also took on mythical proportions because it was a diversion for a nation enjoying its last summer free from the great conflict in Europe. At that time, we were an anxious nation which understood that our involvement in the great war was all but inevitable.

Like almost all Italian boys his age, my dad loved DiMaggio because he was a beloved American hero of Italian descent. No Italian-American had ever reached some proportions. To this day, if you meet an American of Italian descent, he's likely to be a Yankee fan because his father was a Yankee fan and a fan of DiMaggio's.

I can't tell you how happy my dad was when one of coaches starting calling me "JoltinJoe." He was a friend of my dad's, and knew how much of a fan of DiMag my dad was.