NDSU vs. GSU- Let's talk FOOTBALL

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

I thought we were here to talk about FOOTBALL. Not about meth, waffle house, some random fish meal, past championships (that goes for both teams, btw..), etc.

Let's talk about FOOTBALL.

Saturday we have a dandy of a football game to watch, gentleman. And as a fan, I still don't know all that much about our opponent. Through 172 pages, I still don't have any information that is relevant about NDSU.

So I will ask.

Who are your star players?

Who should I watch for on Saturday?

Where are the big match ups going to be?

What type of offense do y'all run? Pass vs. Run ratio? Formations? Short pass vs. Long pass ratio? How often do you employ screens, Play action, or option plays? On 3rd and 5 is your coach more likely to run the ball or pass it?

On Defense, what is your base formation? How often do you blitz/how aggressive is the defense? How do you feel about playing man-to-man, assignment based defense for most of the game?

How young is your team? I ask because Georgia Southern is overwhelmingly a very young team.

Is there anything else that any NDSU fans would like to add?

-----------------------------------------

Now, about Georgia Southern. (I apologize if this is repeat information. I'm sure that a lot of you already know this stuff but here it is again.)


This is the 2nd year for Head Coach Jeff Monken. Monken came from Georgia Tech where he was an assistant to Paul Johnson. Monken was on the Georgia Southern staff under Paul Johnson and has won two National Championships at Georgia Southern as an assistant coach. Last year, he led our team to the semi-finals where we fell to Delaware in the ugliest football game I've ever seen. We had like 28 fumbles or something like that.


On offense we run the spread option. Our base play is the triple option. Our base formation is the flexbone. In a nutshell: 1st option- handoff to the fullback (aka the B-back), 2nd option- QB keeps, 3rd option- pitch to one of the A-backs (the backs who line up in the slot).

That's our base play and what the rest of the offense is built around. However, a lot of plays we run will not be "the triple option" play. The play might start off with the similiar pre-snap motion from the A-back but end up being a designed fullback dive, a double option, the rocket sweep toss (my favorite play), a QB sneak, a passing play, etc.

We had trouble moving the ball up the middle for most of the season so Monken decided to change it up a bit. Before the Bama game he moved Robert Brown from B-back (FB) to A-back (slot) and put Dominique Swope in as the primary B-back. This worked out better than expected. Swope ran all over Bama and has continued to run over everyone ever since. Against Old Dominion, Swope (who is a freshman, btw) had 255 yards on 31 carries. Brown has been surprisingly good as the pitch man on the edge.

Other offensive weapons to watch for are JJ Wilcox. He is one of our A-backs and is very talented. He can lay down a sick block and run the ball very effectively.

Also watch out for senior QB Jaybo Shaw. Jaybo came with Monken from Georgia Tech. He is our field general. He reminds me of Tebow- not an incredible QB but is THE leader and makes plays. Lately Jaybo has been on fire. Last game he completed all but one pass.

We have a stable of backs aside from Swope, Wilcox, and Brown. It is a common thing for us to have 3 or 4 different players with a rushing TD in a given game.

We will control the clock.


On Defense:

We run a 4-3 as our base. What we do completely depends on who we are playing. It's generally a bend but do not break defense. We play fairly conservatively. The idea is to keep the ball in front of you. We have been inconsistent on defense this whole year, especially later on. In part, this is due to a few of our star defensive players being injured. Notably is safety Derek Heyden being out with a broken neck. You will see him on the sideline in the halo carrying the black flag.

Our defensive line is anchored by Brent Russell. It will take two of your monster o-lineman to stop him. He always gets double teamed. Bama had to double team him the entire game.

We have a lock down corner with Laron Scott. He is as good as any in the FCS. We will likely match him up with your best WR and let them battle it out.

Also, Monken just moved our backup QB and backup RB Jerrick McKinnon to DB. We all were wondering why but last game against Maine he had two interceptions. The kid can just flat out play genius football. He is everywhere.



On special teams we have Adrian Mora. He never missed an extra point in his life until 2 games ago. Our kick returner is Laron Scott. He has taken a few to the house this year including a beauty against Bama for 92 yards IIRC.



The keys to the game for us:

- Minimizing turnovers.

- Controlling the clock. (which comes back to not turning the ball over and letting the offense just keep burning time off the clock)

- Not giving up big plays on defense.

- Getting a few stops on defense.

- Score early and often.


If we don't fumble then our offense will burn time off of the clock and keep NDSU's offense off of the field. When NDSU does take the field on offense, we can't let them score every time. Otherwise it will be a shootout like the ODU game was. We can't afford a shootout against NDSU- defensively they are too good.

To beat us, NDSU will have to play a near perfect game on defense and try to control the clock.



I think this is going to be the game of the year honestly. Here's to a good game.

[blueballs]

A couple of minor adds... the offensive changes came prior to the Wofford game, and including moving William Maxwell to center and inserting RFr Trevor McBurnette at guard along with starting Swope. This changed really opened up the belly play and made the offensive seriously dangerous. Since halftime of the Wofford game GSU's offense has been just sick.

GSU's defense has gotten a bad rap but only three teams have really had a lot of success against them: Chattanooga, Alabama and ODU. In the Chatty game GSU knocked Chatty's starter out in the first half and Chatty brought in the backup and ran a read option look out of the gun that GSU had not practiced for and it confused the heck out of them. Chatty rushed for over 200 yards in the second half and almost pulled the upset. Against Bama it is self explanatory... bigger, stronger, better, deeper... a mismatch. ODU was a bad matchup with a spread formation and a hot QB. However, GSU made enough stops to win.

NDSU is big on offense... frankly I'm more worried about the matchup against NDSU's offense than their defense. I'm worried that NDSU will line up in two tights and use that big o-line and just run off tackle ala Bama.

The old saying is "styles make fights" and this looks like a pretty good matchup style wise.

[FIDO-GATA]

I appreciate the time it took to type all that, so here's a bump.

[Eaglesrus]

A non-minor note by any measure; word is that Derek is out of the halo! Derek, you remain in our thoughts and prayers.

[Hammerhead]

Here's something quick to get you started.

I'm sure thers will add to the list of star players especially on the defense, but I'd start with:
Jensen (QB)
McNorton and Ojuri share the running back duties.
Smith (WR) if he's healthy enough to play. I don't know if he'll be doing any punt or kick returns if he's still banged up.
Holloway (WR)
Willams (cornerback) has several picks and a few touchdowns this year. He also does some kick returning.
Heagle (Safety) usually has some good tackles.

We are also a young team. Not including redshirts, we only have 8 juniors and 18 seniors on the roster compared to 28 sophomores and 30 freshman (not counting redshirts). 4 out of the 7 star players I listed above (including the QB) are just sophomores.

I would guess that 3rd and 5 is most often a pass play with a short route to Smith. It's a west coast offense for the most part although we have been know to simply run the ball and chew up 10 minutes off the clock on a single drive. Jensen is also a capable runner for QB sneaks, draw plays or rolling out to make a pass. The offensive line is pretty agile for their size. The defense doesn't do a ton of blitzing. The front 4 can usually provide enough pressure on their own.

[Thunderstruck]

We run a power offense. Power- fullback or H back kick out block, opposite guard pulling into the hole. We will be in a singleback or I-back 80% of the time. Holloway (WR) is our big play guy with Smith (WR, baby welker) as more of our possession guy. We also have a 6-7 TE who is healthy for the first time in his career.
Our Defense is the Tampa 2. 4-3 with rotating about 8-9 guys in the front 7. Walter Payton finalist Chris Lum (QB) was 25-52 with 288 yards, 0 tds, 2 ints. Well below his averages and looked scared most of the game. Shakir Bell (RB) was held to just 81 yards.
Special Teams we have a good kicker. Return wise, punt or kickoff, we have 3 guys who can take it to the house anytime they touch the ball.

[HandoEX]

My take on NDSU offense...

QB: Brock Jensen is an accurate, smart kid that only has 3 interceptions on the year. He is tough and can gain yards on the ground as well as through the air.

RB: DJ McNorton and Sam Ojuri are two excellent backs, each with 1000 yards on the year. DJ is a senior and a slasher. He was fighting injuries earlier in the year, but is 100% and playing like it now. Sam is hard nosed and fights for extra yardage, but his speed is underrated in the open field.

WR: We are short here. Warren Holloway is the star senior that runs pretty clean routes and is excellent at going after the deep ball. RB convert Ryan Smith is our Wes Welker. He is shifty in space and has incredibly sure hands. Behind them are walk-ons and a semi full of injured players.

TE: Matt Veldman is 6'7" and can get open any time he wants. Garrett Bruhn is a stud blocker and snags a few balls as well. Vaadeland and Nelson are pair of sophomore TEs that see the field regularly.

T: Our RT, Cornick is a consensus AA and our left tackle, Turner is an athletic beast that started every game but one (injury) since he arrived on campus last year.

G: Richard and Gimmestad are big and strong. Richard is about as mean a football player as I've seen. Gimmestad has been dinged up a bit so Joe Lund or Ty Beckius each have tons of quality experience at his spot.

C: Joe Lund is an athletic center that plays a lot of guard. If he slides over, sophomore Jesse Hintz is just as good and is back after recovering from nagging injuries earlier in the year.

FB: Andrew Grothman is a fundamental wonder. He's strong, athletic, and hits like a freight train.

[HandoEX]

Defense...

S: Daniel Eaves is a 3 year starter that will miss this game. John Pike is a senior that plays in our nickel packages and he'll step in. The Bison get Colton Heagle back for GSU, and he is needed as one of our best run stoppers on defense. He's a beast.

CB: Marcus Williams is a shutdown, ball hawking all american. Christian Dudzik is a better run stopper from the othe CB spot, imo.

OLB: The Bison rotate Chad Willson, Brandon Jemison, Carlton Littlejohn, and Travis Beck. All four have started and Willson is the star of the bunch. He's a blue collar tough guy. Jemison, Littlejohn, and Beck all fly to the ball and rely on their athleticism.

ILB: Preston Evans is a four year starter and his backup, Grant Olson, has played a ton in his two years on campus.

DE: Coulter Boyer is all conference and a stud. The surprise of the team, imo, is Kyle Emanuel, a rS converted LB. He is apparently already the strongest kid on the team. Behind them are two seniors with starting experience and a super athletic sophomore, Cole Jirik, that I expect to be next year's Coulter Boyer.

DT: Ryan Drevlow and Leevon Perry are both sophomore studs. Justin Juckem is a huge NG that sees a lot of snaps.

[HandoEX]

Special Teams...

PK: Ryan Jastram is onee of the best I've seen at this level. Two missed FGs on the season and multiple made kicks from 45+. He has a leg and his kickoffs make it to the goal line.

P: Our punter, Matt Voigtlander, averaged almost 10 yards per carry as a RB his first three years at NDSU. He took over punting this year and has been a pleasant surprise.

KR: Marcus Williams is our best. He has incredible speed and vision on returns. Ryan Smith and DJ McNorton are offensive stars that also return a ton of kicks.

PR: Ryan Smith had his redshirt pulled at Kansas last year just to return punts and he is electric in this role. The best in the MVFC.

[Go Bison]

I love this type of analysis. HandoEx and others did a good job on the NDSU side. I don't have too much to add other than the few GSU games I have watched on ESPN3.com that Swope is an amazing back. He is only a freshman? Wow.

I see a close game decided by a FG or TD. GSU will get their yards and points, but I think the game will be decided on how NDSU's offense does against GSU's defense. NDSU can also control the clock with long sustained drives also. This is the biggest game ever in the state of ND. Best of luck to GSU and let the best team win.

[The Brief]

Blueandwhitefightfight, we do NOT, and I repeat do NOT run the Spread Option. We may use the shotgun about 5-8 times a game, but that is it. We are under the Center over 90% of the time.

[eaglewraith]

Blueandwhitefightfight, we do NOT, and I repeat do NOT run the Spread Option. We may use the shotgun about 5-8 times a game, but that is it. We are under the Center over 90% of the time.

PJ himself has referred to it as the Spread Option.

The base flexbone formation is called Spread.

[ChiefGSU275]

Shotgun =/= spread.

It's a spread because we line up with a receiver near each sideline SPREADING the defense. Occasionally, we'll line them up tight, but our goal is to spread the defense, get a numbers mismatch, and beat the other team with angles.

[sav eagle34]

NDSU is big on offense... frankly I'm more worried about the matchup against NDSU's offense than their defense. I'm worried that NDSU will line up in two tights and use that big o-line and just run off tackle ala Bama.

The old saying is "styles make fights" and this looks like a pretty good matchup style wise.


I've had the same worries. In a game that could have precious few possessions, this could be scary for us, especially if we have a turnover. Contrary to the last 2 weeks, I don't expect jensen to pick us apart but instead be calculated in where they take their chances. I don't think it would be a stretch to say this game could have fewer than 30 pass plays. They like to run a lot of unbalanced heavy sets and that worries me. If we dont get penetration from the inside guys they could eat up some yards and then seal us on the weakside for a big gainer. It wouldn't be a bad time for Brent or any of the inside guys to have the game of their life. The determining factors will certainly be any turnovers, special teams swings, and/or field position. I really hope for a clean game for both teams, that would make for an epic all time finish.

[Eaglegus2]

Has to be the best analysis I have read for a game. This is how a thread should read. Thank you to everyone. It is going to be a classic game.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Blueandwhitefightfight, we do NOT, and I repeat do NOT run the Spread Option. We may use the shotgun about 5-8 times a game, but that is it. We are under the Center over 90% of the time.

From the front cover of the playbook

"GEORGIA SOUTHERN SPREAD OPTION"

That's just what PJ and CJM call it. I think it's due to the fact that the flex is actually spread out most of the time compared to going in flex-tight or wishbone-tight (which we have before).

Call it what you want, I was really just trying to clarify for the NDSU guys that the triple option is not actually the name of our offense; the triple option is just the base play of our offense.

[eaglemachine]

I love this type of analysis. HandoEx and others did a good job on the NDSU side. I don't have too much to add other than the few GSU games I have watched on ESPN3.com that Swope is an amazing back. He is only a freshman? Wow.

I see a close game decided by a FG or TD. GSU will get their yards and points, but I think the game will be decided on how NDSU's offense does against GSU's defense. NDSU can also control the clock with long sustained drives also. This is the biggest game ever in the state of ND. Best of luck to GSU and let the best team win.

GSU actually found Swope while on a recruiting visit to pick up another b back from the same high school that Swope was behind in the depth chart. The other guy signed with us too and is taking a redshirt year this year. Can't wait to see both of them in the backfield next year.

[The Brief]

If to be considered a "Spread" Team is line the recievers out wide, then every single team that doesn't run double tight is a "Spread" Team as well. And to my knowledge, there aren't many. But do you actually have a copy of the playbook? I'm in the Coaching Program here, and would love to see it.

Apologies if I sounded hostile, that's what I get for not doing a little bit of research first.

[Bison06]

Question for GSU fans. When a team has flat out beaten the Triple Option, what is a common element to the teams that beat you? D-line penetration, avoiding cut blocks, luck? :)

[The Brief]

Question for GSU fans. When a team has flat out beaten the Triple Option, what is a common element to the teams that beat you? D-line penetration, avoiding cut blocks, luck? :)

Covering the Pitch-man and forcing Jaybo to run the ball. He's not very fast and he has no problem going to the ground before getting hit. App State could tell you this.

[gsueagle2424]

Question for GSU fans. When a team has flat out beaten the Triple Option, what is a common element to the teams that beat you? D-line penetration, avoiding cut blocks, luck? :)

Penetration is usually key but it will take penetration from your, tackle (dive), linebacker (QB) and CB (pitch man) to successfully stop it behind the line.

[Bison06]

Covering the Pitch-man and forcing Jaybo to run the ball. He's not very fast and he has no problem going to the ground before getting hit. App State could tell you this.

I think you are being sarcastic as I have heard that GSU's offense has changed in the past year to the exact opposite of what you are describing. Getting him to pitch it would actually be a benefit to us from what I understand due to him being a dynamic runner.

[KJ Eagle]

I think you are being sarcastic as I have heard that GSU's offense has changed in the past year to the exact opposite of what you are describing. Getting him to pitch it would actually be a benefit to us from what I understand due to him being a dynamic runner.

you heard wrong. Jaybo is not a dynamic runner at all. Very tough and makes great decisions though. He is an excellent field general and will make a great coach. But he is not going to blaze past anyone. Now our backups on the other hand.....they can flat out fly!!!!

[The Brief]

you heard wrong. Jaybo is not a dynamic runner at all. Very tough and makes great decisions though. He is an excellent field general and will make a great coach. But he is not going to blaze past anyone. Now our backups on the other hand.....they can flat out fly!!!!

Yeah, Ezayi Youyoute is the dynamic runner. He's a Freshman, just like Swope. Two two are gonna do some damage next year.

And no, not sarcastic at all. Just look up our game film from App State.
Jaybo Shaw - 18 rush, 37 yards, 2.1 average.

[Bison06]

you heard wrong. Jaybo is not a dynamic runner at all. Very tough and makes great decisions though. He is an excellent field general and will make a great coach. But he is not going to blaze past anyone. Now our backups on the other hand.....they can flat out fly!!!!

Ok, so penetration from our D-line, when possible a QB keeper is better than allowing him to pitch to your back. Sounds so easy on paper doesn't it.

[sav eagle34]

Question for GSU fans. When a team has flat out beaten the Triple Option, what is a common element to the teams that beat you? D-line penetration, avoiding cut blocks, luck? :)

Delaware played with 2 DT's in the 3 technique last year, clogging up the dive. They had the ability at LB that allowed them to keep the counter covered as this is our response to losing the dive and midline. App did something similar this year but they did it from the 3-4, essentially having all 3 down lineman within the 7's. Vitually all teams that have success against the triple look to take away the first option, the dive and midline. I suspect that with NDSU being a tampa 2 defense and having depth on the line they will offer something similar forcing us to the corner. There is where the gamesmanship will begin. Teams who have confidence in their safties can allow their corners to cheat to the pitchman. Most teams aren't willing to take that gamble. Some who are good enough find out how much havoc that can wreak on us. Our battles against Delaware and McNeese come to mind for teams who were effective in stringing out the play to the corner and then nailing the pitchman as we take the 3rd option. ODU & Maine were nowhere near close to accomplishing this. Their biggest faults were trying to avoid blocks in the secondary rather than filling the alley block and forcing the pithman to run the hump. Not many defenses teach this anymore so it is foreign to some kids. You can't avoid the block and beat the option. The play will be by you before you do, regardless of whether the saftey or the corner is responsible for the pitch man. Another key is the playside DE putting a hat on the QB each and every play. Got to let him know your there, because he's being optioned, you've got to close down quick and tight.

[EmeraldCityBison]

The Bison have and will line up in a 3-4 defensive front at times. Anyone see this ability as an advantage either way?

[sav eagle34]

The Bison have and will line up in a 3-4 defensive front at times. Anyone see this ability as an advantage either way?


If you are comfortable in the 3-4 and run it tomorrow, I really do see that as an advantage. It takes some pressure of the nose because he will always have playside help. If he plays as a 3 tech in the 4-3 he's constantly getting chipped by the playside guard and has to hold his ground which is tough with the angles we'll take. In a 3-4 he's over the nose and will have an end who can crash the dive when he gets the double. App St's defensive back coach used to be our d-back coach before we got away from the option. He's there now and they picked up the 3-4 when he arrived. He knows our offense well and I doubt it's a coincidence that they moved to that alignment when we went back to the triple. Another plus, is the difficulty for the QB to work the optioned man. In a 4-3 that is a DE with his hand on the ground. In a 3-4 you are optioning an OLB in a 2 point stance, to me, it's much easier to keep contain that way. I was under the impression you guys were base 4-3 cover 2. If NDSU shows up in a 3-4 that will be one more thing for us to worry about. Certainly tough for our coaches early on as we don't have much film on you guys playing a similar offense. It's going to be a blast watching all this playing out.

[Grizzlies82]

Our battles against Delaware and McNeese come to mind for teams who were effective in stringing out the play to the corner and then nailing the pitchman as we take the 3rd option... You can't avoid the block and beat the option. The play will be by you before you do, regardless of whether the saftey or the corner is responsible for the pitch man. Another key is the playside DE putting a hat on the QB each and every play. Got to let him know your there, because he's being optioned, you've got to close down quick and tight.

From observing UM playing against it, I fully agree with your points. 1) Eliminate the dive. 2) CRUSH the QB on every play. 3) Get enough bodies out on the edge to account for both your blocker, and someone standing to make the tackle.

It requires extreme discipline from a defense throughout an entire game. That is a tall order. This is why the offense works so well. I don't see NDSU (or anyone else) shutting down Georgia Southern completely. The only way to beat these Eagles is to limit them on offense to a few scores. The Bison won't win this one with 17 or 20 points, though they're capable to win if their offense is clicking.

[CropDuster]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the coaches adding in the 'gun was somewhat of a response to the 3-4. We also seem to move from our base spread set to the close, trips, or TE set more often against a 3 man front. These are just my observations from watching the games the last two seasons, I can't offer up the technical reasons for why or if they're even true. I believe both Maine and ODU tried a three man front at different points in the game, and Wofford runs it, so it isn't some magic pill.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Quick question for the NDSU guys..

I'm watching the SHSU vs. Montana game. SHSU's speed is lighting up the big boys from Montana. Montana has looked good all year until now. How do you feel about our speed vs. your size? Do you think you can keep up?

[straightshooter]

Quick question for the NDSU guys..

I'm watching the SHSU vs. Montana game. SHSU's speed is lighting up the big boys from Montana. Montana has looked good all year until now. How do you feel about our speed vs. your size? Do you think you can keep up?

Montana is fast against teams they play in their conference that have similar "big" lines of scrimmage, big LB, etc. The teams they've played in the playoffs are similar to them in size. SHSU is not. There is a 43 lb per person difference in the weight of the Montana OL and the SHSU DL. You may see much of the same in Fargo tomorrow. NDSU will unquestionably outweigh GSU by a bunch. Every team does, so that's nothing new.

[Twentysix]

Quick question for the NDSU guys..

I'm watching the SHSU vs. Montana game. SHSU's speed is lighting up the big boys from Montana. Montana has looked good all year until now. How do you feel about our speed vs. your size? Do you think you can keep up?

NDSU is faster than montana.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

NDSU is faster than montana.

Is that going to be fast enough though?

[FargoBison]

Quick question for the NDSU guys..

I'm watching the SHSU vs. Montana game. SHSU's speed is lighting up the big boys from Montana. Montana has looked good all year until now. How do you feel about our speed vs. your size? Do you think you can keep up?

Not exactly sure I'd call our defense big...Ever since the spread option came into being popular we've gone with smaller more athletic defenders and more a deeper rotation.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Not exactly sure I'd call our defense big...Ever since the spread option came into being popular we've gone with smaller more athletic defenders and more a deeper rotation.


Have you played any teams who use the option as a good chunk of their offense (i.e. Georgia Southern, Sam Houston St., The Citadel, Cal Poly, Wofford, etc.)??

[FargoBison]

Have you played any teams who use the option as a good chunk of their offense (i.e. Georgia Southern, Sam Houston St., The Citadel, Cal Poly, Wofford, etc.)??

The most was probably JMU. YSU kind of mixed it in sparingly. We haven't played Cal Poly for a few years and even then not sure I'd say their offense was primarily option.

SHSU ran a spread offense when we played them in 2009.

[SpiritCymbal]

The most was probably JMU. YSU kind of mixed it in sparingly. We haven't played Cal Poly for a few years and even then not sure I'd say their offense was primarily option.

SHSU ran a spread offense when we played them in 2009.

:SMILEY FACE:

[Twentysix]

Is that going to be fast enough though?

We will find out today.

[jhbeagle]

When GSU gets inside the 40 it becomes 4 down territory....typically a 3rd and 6 or 8 becomes a 4th and 2......alot of times the team goes for it.

[Apphole]

NDSU is faster than montana.

There is no speed in the FCS that matches what we see in the Southern Conference every week. I still think the Stink takes this game by 14+.

[straightshooter]

The most was probably JMU. YSU kind of mixed it in sparingly. We haven't played Cal Poly for a few years and even then not sure I'd say their offense was primarily option.

SHSU ran a spread offense when we played them in 2009.

I wouldn't call what I saw JMU run an option offense. You'll see true option football today.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

One obscure stat that may tell a tale. Bison opponents are scoring 2.6 ppg in the 3rd quarter. I isolate the 3rd quarter because there are many times the bison D gave up a late touchdown to a team they were beating because of a silly prevent formation. That stat tells me the Bison are good 2nd half adjustment makers. That will be key against an offense they haven't played before.