Charlie Manuel Watch, Part II

[Marcus Garvey]

For the record, I don't hate Charlie. I think he's a good baseball man who's achieved the "Peter Principal." Namely, he's been promoted one level above his competence.

When you considere Jim Leyland really wanted the Phillies job, and seeing what he's done so far in his first season in Detroit (who, BTW, aren't as talented as the Phillies), it makes Charlie recommending himself appear even more absurd.

My new date for Manuel: June 15.

[Ivytalk]

If the Phils had lost to the Mets today, my May 31 pick still had a shot!

[blukeys]

For the record, I don't hate Charlie. I think he's a good baseball man who's achieved the "Peter Principal." Namely, he's been promoted one level above his competence.

When you considere Jim Leyland really wanted the Phillies job, and seeing what he's done so far in his first season in Detroit (who, BTW, aren't as talented as the Phillies), it makes Charlie recommending himself appear even more absurd.

My new date for Manuel: June 15.


Yes the Phillies not taking Leyland ranks up there with the trading of all stars such as Fergusen Jenkins and Ryne Sandberg as the dumb bonehead move of that year.

My problem with the Phillies is that their pitching is suspect. If John Lieber were the 2nd and 3rd pitcher on the staff then this would be a decent staff. But John Lieber as your Number 1 guy is scary.

Their starting 8 is as good as there is in baseball but baseball is 90% pitching.

[ngineer]

Two nights in a row HE has blown a game. Friday night he and his coaches failed to appeal a runner not touching third base on the way back to second. He then promptly scored when the next batter singled.
Saturday night, he brings in Fultz from the pen who STRIKES OUT THE SIDE. The Phils then rally and score 2 runs in the bottom of the seventh to tie the game 6-6. Instead of Fultz pitching the 8th (pitcher was due up in the bottom of the 8th) he brings in Franklin who lets up back to back home runs. WTF! You mean to tell me a major league pitcher cannot pitch two innings in relief?!! He can do nothing but 'go by the book' or the 'lefty versus righty' percentages. Both games, the players played hard, came from behind, only to have boneheaded oversights and decisions. Don't get me started.....:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Marcus Garvey]

This is sick, but I'm sooooo pulling for the Brewers to sweep the Phils and hasten the arrival of Charlie's walking papers.

[blukeys]

This is sick, but I'm sooooo pulling for the Brewers to sweep the Phils and hasten the arrival of Charlie's walking papers.


Could we get Leyland to reconsider if Charlie goes???:rotateh: :rotateh:

The starting 8 for this team is exciting and there are some quality players coming off the bench.

I saw the game in person and the Brewers are not a real good team. If everyone hustled on the Phillies like Utley they would have another 10 wins as he got a hit today due to sheer hustle.

Some of my other complaints. What is it with pitchers who throw a wild pitch and then don't cover home with a runner on second (Rhodes). Why can't pitchers back up plays at third when balls are hit into the gap? (All the pitchers Brewers and Phillies)

I still say Lieber is not a legitimate stopper as a starter but I think that solid management can make this team a real force IF THEY PLAY SMART BASEBALL.

Maybe someone can tell Rollins to take a pitch in certain situations such as bases loaded and 2 runners put on base by a walk and hit batsmen. xidiotx

[ngineer]

Didn't get your wish. Ryan Howard pounded another opposite field homer today to lead the Phils to a 6-2 wn. Rowand made two fine catches in the outfield today, including one not far from where he ran into the centerfield fence two weeks ago.

[Ivytalk]

I f the Phils do anything this year, it will be in spite of Manuel, not because of him. The man is an idiot.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

How about the season Ryan Howard is having so far?

18 HR 47 RBI .304 avg.

Maybe the best 1B in the NL behind Pujols?

The most impressive stat, however - .323 vs. LHP :eek:

This was always the knock on him.

[GannonFan]

Howard's certainly exceeded even the most optimistic expectations for him. He's even more of a power guy than he showed in the minors (and he was really good there) and his ability to hit lefties has made him into a really feared hitter. It'll be tough to exceed let alone match what he did in May, but the guy is a flat out star and, barring the Phillies screwing it up, should be a star in Philly for years to come.

[Go...gate]

Mets will come back to the field and the Phils, Braves and Mets will be in a three-way race as the weather gets really hot. Mets simply don't have enough pitching either.

[foghorn]

Phillies' plus and minuses as I see 'em.
Plusses:1. Ryan Howard- superstar in making.
2. Chase Utley - best 2nd baseman in league.
3. Aaron Rowand- plays every game like it's his last.
4. Shane Victorino- Phils gotta find a way to play him more.
(Abreu trade?)
5. Brett Myers- Has arrived. Phils' Ace and stopper.
6. Jimmy Rollins- When he's hot, he's hot; when he's cold.......
7. Cole Hamels- Could be star if stays healthy.
8. Flash Gordon- Much better than anticipated.
Minuses:1. Uncle Chollie- just not smart enough.
2. Jon Lieber- has seen his better day.
3. Jimmy Rollins- He's really a plus player, but NOT a leadoff
hitter. Need someone who can take pitches and work the
pitcher; i.e. Rowand or Victorino.
4. Gavin Floyd- Tries to challenge hitters with his fast ball and
can't do it. Simply not fast enough for the Bigs. Great curve
but can't control it. Trade him now.
5. Geary and Franklin- Adios, please!

The rest of the active roster are about where they left off last year. No need to comment.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The fact is they need a good solid starter pitcher if they are going to be playing in October. If they could land a land a 17-10 3.7 type guy i think it would greatly increase their chances to overtake the Mets and the Braves. I think 95 wins is going to be the magical number to win the division. None of these clubs look like 100 win teams.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I agree with previous posters -

To be competitive come September the Phillies need another quality arm. With the emergence of Victorino as a guy with the ability to play everyday, they have to look to shop Burrell or Abreu. I will be very disappointed if this doesn't happen.

[Go...gate]

I think 95 wins is optimistic - 87 to 90 seems more like it.

[GannonFan]

Even 90 wins is optimistic - there's just not enough good starting pitching there. Leiber's now on the DL, Hamels doesn't come back until next week, Leidel is what he is - an innings eater and nothing more. After Meyers, there is no starting pitching. And to be banking on Wolf coming back in July as a savior after TJ surgery is just too optimistic. I see 85 wins and that's it. I know this past off-season wasn't filled with many good starters, but you have to find them somehow - shipping Burrell and Abreu out of town for pitching may have to happen.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

shipping Burrell and Abreu out of town for pitching may have to happen.

So who needs help in the outfield, but had solid pitching...

Oakland? Detroit? Any thoughts?

[Marcus Garvey]

How tradeable are Abreu and Burell? In order to unload Thome, the Phils had to eat most of contract. It turned out to be a good deal because overall, they're paying less for a 1B with overall better numbers than if they had stuck with Thome. Bobby and Pat are two highest paid members of the team. I doubt Oakland would want to take on their salaries.

The problem is the Phils have too many untradeable contracts: Abreu, Burell, Jon Lieber, Dave Bell and Mike Lieberthal. Who the hell is running this team? Isiah Thomas?

[foghorn]

It's been rumored that the Yanks want Abreu. The down side is the Yankees have their own pitching problems and don't have any pitchers commensurate with Abreu's worth.
So, how about the Yankees trade some young prospects to the Marlins for Willis (the Marlins are trying to drastically reduce their payroll), and then trade Dontrelle to the Phils for Abreu. :hurray:

[blukeys]

It's been rumored that the Yanks want Abreu. The down side is the Yankees have their own pitching problems and don't have any pitchers commensurate with Abreu's worth.
So, how about the Yankees trade some young prospects to the Marlins for Willis (the Marlins are trying to drastically reduce their payroll), and then trade Dontrelle to the Phils for Abreu. :hurray:


My view is that it will cost more than Abreu to get Dontrelle. I would take that trade tomorrow!!!:nod: :nod:

[SunCoastBlueHen]

How tradeable are Abreu and Burell? In order to unload Thome, the Phils had to eat most of contract. It turned out to be a good deal because overall, they're paying less for a 1B with overall better numbers than if they had stuck with Thome. Bobby and Pat are two highest paid members of the team. I doubt Oakland would want to take on their salaries.

The problem is the Phils have too many untradeable contracts: Abreu, Burell, Jon Lieber, Dave Bell and Mike Lieberthal. Who the hell is running this team? Isiah Thomas?

Good point, Marcus. Foghorn's scenario may be the only feasible one - a trade with or a three way involving a deep pockets team like the Yankees.

[GannonFan]

I'd pretty much trade Abreu, Burrell, and anybody else not named Utley, Howard, or Rowand to get Willis. I'd even throw Hamels in there as well as although he has great stuff, this guy is built like Eric Lindros and I don't think he'll ever be healthy. He's our version of Kerry Wood and/or Mark Prior - great on paper, but built like paper as well.

[foghorn]

I'd pretty much trade Abreu, Burrell, and anybody else not named Utley, Howard, or Rowand to get Willis. I'd even throw Hamels in there as well as although he has great stuff, this guy is built like Eric Lindros and I don't think he'll ever be healthy. He's our version of Kerry Wood and/or Mark Prior - great on paper, but built like paper as well.

Too much up side with Hamels; lefty with a mean breaking ball. Throw in Floyd instead and it's a done deal. :nod:

[MR. CHICKEN]

DON'T NEED NO FREAKIN' TRADES....PUT DALLAS IN DUH DUGOUT...AWK!

[ngineer]

My view is that it will cost more than Abreu to get Dontrelle. I would take that trade tomorrow!!!:nod: :nod:

Agree there. I like Abreu, but this is a business and they should move him while they can get something of worth. Victorino has to get in the lineup. Actually, I'd rather trade Burrell, but I think he is less marketable.

[GannonFan]

I don't like Abreu, but I'd keep him if I had to. The problem is, after Howard and Utley (both of whom I'm not trading) there really isn't another position player of worth to trade so Abreu is the natural, and only choice. The other problem is, there aren't going to be any teams that will trade a quality starting pitcher without getting some pitchers (and young pitchers) in return. So to get someone decent, you're talking about trading Abreu and then throw into the mix Hamels (I know he has upside, but I don't think he'll ever be healthy enough to get there), Floyd, Madsen, Leiber - hey, pretty much anyone except for Meyers. We'll get to see this summer if Gillick has some ability and room to operate if he's able to pull off a decent trade for a decent starting pitcher - without one, the Phils are doomed yet again.

Hey, on the bright side, the Phillies are now 96 losses away (not counting the Brown Stockings years - they weren't the Phillies) from being the first professional franchise in any sport anywhere in the world to lose 10,000 games (not counting post-season, which isn't all that hard to do anyway). Sometime next year the big party starts. :hurray:

[Marcus Garvey]

Hey, on the bright side, the Phillies are now 96 losses away (not counting the Brown Stockings years - they weren't the Phillies) from being the first professional franchise in any sport anywhere in the world to lose 10,000 games (not counting post-season, which isn't all that hard to do anyway). Sometime next year the big party starts. :hurray:

I think it's mind-boggling that the Athletics won something like 9 pennants and 5 or 6 World Series in Philadelphia, yet they leave town and we're stuck with the damn Phillies!

Did the Cardinals leave St. Louis? The Red Sox Boston? WTF!!!!

[ngineer]

I don't like Abreu, but I'd keep him if I had to. The problem is, after Howard and Utley (both of whom I'm not trading) there really isn't another position player of worth to trade so Abreu is the natural, and only choice. The other problem is, there aren't going to be any teams that will trade a quality starting pitcher without getting some pitchers (and young pitchers) in return. So to get someone decent, you're talking about trading Abreu and then throw into the mix Hamels (I know he has upside, but I don't think he'll ever be healthy enough to get there), Floyd, Madsen, Leiber - hey, pretty much anyone except for Meyers. We'll get to see this summer if Gillick has some ability and room to operate if he's able to pull off a decent trade for a decent starting pitcher - without one, the Phils are doomed yet again.

Hey, on the bright side, the Phillies are now 96 losses away (not counting the Brown Stockings years - they weren't the Phillies) from being the first professional franchise in any sport anywhere in the world to lose 10,000 games (not counting post-season, which isn't all that hard to do anyway). Sometime next year the big party starts. :hurray:

ALMOST as impressive as getting 10,000 posts!!:D

[MR. CHICKEN]

DALLAS GREEN....AS MGR. ...AN' EVEN ABREU WILL RUN INTA DUH FENCE....ALOT!.............................BURRELL WOOD HAVE LIKE 10 MO' DINGERS BAH NOW........OR HE'D BE PICKIN' PINE NEEDLES...AT READIN'......LEIBERTHAL....WOULD LOOK LIKE UH PTL CLUB MIRACLE...BEHIND DUH PLATE.........GET MAH DRIFT?.......:thumbsup:.....BRAWK!

[GannonFan]

DALLAS GREEN....AS MGR. ...AN' EVEN ABREU WILL RUN INTA DUH FENCE....ALOT!.............................BURRELL WOOD HAVE LIKE 10 MO' DINGERS BAH NOW........OR HE'D BE PICKIN' PINE NEEDLES...AT READIN'......LEIBERTHAL....WOULD LOOK LIKE UH PTL CLUB MIRACLE...BEHIND DUH PLATE.........GET MAH DRIFT?.......:thumbsup:.....BRAWK!

Nah, Dallas Green couldn't get through to guys like this today - they're all (most of them) overlysensitive wusses. Remember when Green criticized Rolen and he sunk into a depressive funk because somebody criticized him? Burrell and Abreu would be the same way - their egos are way too delicate for someone to question so we're stuck with happy go lucky Charlie Manuel because otherwise our wusses would get too bummed from being criticized. Give me a team with a bunch of Utleys, Howards, and Rowands and you have a team. There are way too many Abreus, Leiberthals, and Burrells on this team for my liking. Oh, and we don't have the starting pitching that you need to get at least 90 wins so it doesn't matter who's coaching this team.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Too much up side with Hamels; lefty with a mean breaking ball. Throw in Floyd instead and it's a done deal. :nod:

Interesting that Hamels claims he was never hurt and was upset about being put on the DL. Sounds like it may have just been precautionary.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060602/SPORTS01/606020357/1002/SPORTS

[Ivytalk]

Should we start a new thread called Pat Gillick watch? He did the Thome-Rowand trade, which appears to have been good for both parties. What else has he done? The pitching staff is as mediocre as ever; the Phils still have the worst RISP average in the league; and Abraham Nunez has subsituted for Tomas Perez as Bench Stiff of the Year.:rolleyes:

[Marcus Garvey]

Should we start a new thread called Pat Gillick watch? He did the Thome-Rowand trade, which appears to have been good for both parties. What else has he done? The pitching staff is as mediocre as ever; the Phils still have the worst RISP average in the league; and Abraham Nunez has subsituted for Tomas Perez as Bench Stiff of the Year.:rolleyes:

Pat Gillick hasn't done anything worth complaining about. Believe it or not, but the Ed Wade move that pissed me off the most was trading Ricky Ledee to the Giants for jack ***** (aka Felix Rodriguez)! Ledee was the best bench player they'd had since Ricky Jordan, and I wanted to see him hang around a long time like Greg Gross.

I predict Gillick's stewardship to be short lived. 2-3 years tops. I believe he was brought in to groom Reuben Amaro Jr. for the GM job.

[GannonFan]

Should we start a new thread called Pat Gillick watch? He did the Thome-Rowand trade, which appears to have been good for both parties. What else has he done? The pitching staff is as mediocre as ever; the Phils still have the worst RISP average in the league; and Abraham Nunez has subsituted for Tomas Perez as Bench Stiff of the Year.:rolleyes:

Nowhere near enough time to tell. The Rowand trade was good for the Phils (Thome can't DH here), and he didn't hesitate on bringing Hamels up as soon as possible. As for the pitching, it wasn't a great free agent market for starters last year so I'm not blaming Gillick too much. I would've like to see a way to trade Abreu and a bunch of something else for a starter but that's not always easy. I don't know if the Red Sox would've been interested in Abreu when they shipped Arroyo to Cincinnati but that would've been a nice pickup for the Phils. He still gets a pass from me for this year but next year will be a big test - he needs to get pitching and he needs to adress the manager.

[ngineer]

Pat Gillick hasn't done anything worth complaining about. Believe it or not, but the Ed Wade move that pissed me off the most was trading Ricky Ledee to the Giants for jack ***** (aka Felix Rodriguez)! Ledee was the best bench player they'd had since Ricky Jordan, and I wanted to see him hang around a long time like Greg Gross.

I predict Gillick's stewardship to be short lived. 2-3 years tops. I believe he was brought in to groom Reuben Amaro Jr. for the GM job.

Absolutely agree with this point, but I do think the move to get Gordon is looking very good--problem is being able to get to Gordon. The starting pitiching is what sucks right now. Except for Meyers, the starters are mediocre at best. If the Phils are going to challenge, then they have to make a trade for a proven starter. Rumors say the ChiSox want Rowand back and are dangling Garland. I'd rather see the Phils move Abreu or Burrell and use Victorino in the outfield.

[LeopardFan04]

I hope they don't get rid of Rowand...he's played well and has obviously become a fast fan favorite...I agree that Abreu or Burrell to a lesser extent should be moved in exchange for some pitching...I think it'll depend how in it the Phils are as the next month or so moves on...

[MR. CHICKEN]

ABREU'S..GOTTA GO......HIS D...OUT DERE IN RIGHT..IS SUSPECT....IN LA..HE STOPPED SHORT UH STEP IN FOUL TERRITORY...AN' MISSED DUH CATCH........HE COMES IN ON LINERS..DAT ARE GOIN' OVERAH HIS NOGGIN'.....WON'T EVEN MUFF-DIVE FO' UH SINKIN' LINER.........STOPS SHORT UH STEP ON UH LOTTA POP-UPS...BOBBY SAYS..."FO' WHOOO..FO' WHAT?"..........BRAWK!...SEND HIS SALARY TA NEW YORK..FO' UH BAT BOY...OR......EXTRA LUMBERAH..OR AH NEW ROSIN BAG!.........#53...FO' AN OUTFIELDER?..................AWK!

[ngineer]

ABREU'S..GOTTA GO......HIS D...OUT DERE IN RIGHT..IS SUSPECT....IN LA..HE STOPPED SHORT UH STEP IN FOUL TERRITORY...AN' MISSED DUH CATCH........HE COMES IN ON LINERS..DAT ARE GOIN' OVERAH HIS NOGGIN'.....WON'T EVEN MUFF-DIVE FO' UH SINKIN' LINER.........STOPS SHORT UH STEP ON UH LOTTA POP-UPS...BOBBY SAYS..."FO' WHOOO..FO' WHAT?"..........BRAWK!...SEND HIS SALARY TA NEW YORK..FO' UH BAT BOY...OR......EXTRA LUMBERAH..OR AH NEW ROSIN BAG!.........#53...FO' AN OUTFIELDER?..................AWK!

Agree with your crow--but we need arms, not another outfielder.

[LeopardFan04]

I agree...I think Victorino steps right in as an everyday player...and Roberson is a good option off of the bench...good win tonight...

[Ivytalk]

Well, the Phils came crashing to earth against the Nats last night. They left their offense in Arizona, and Eudie Brito (who will never make anyone forget Steve Carlton or, for that matter, Randy Lerch) didn't make it through the 5th. And don't even get me started on Wayne Franklin, who gave up yet another dinger.:bang: :nonono2:

So when is the trade deadline?

[ngineer]

Well, the Phils came crashing to earth against the Nats last night. They left their offense in Arizona, and Eudie Brito (who will never make anyone forget Steve Carlton or, for that matter, Randy Lerch) didn't make it through the 5th. And don't even get me started on Wayne Franklin, who gave up yet another dinger.:bang: :nonono2:

So when is the trade deadline?

July 31. Still a little for a lot of teams to figure out if they're 'buyers' or 'sellers'. Although I think we've seen enough of the Phils to know that starting pitching is the achilles heel. They aint going to make the playoffs with the rotation they have, and I doubt Wolf will be back in time enough for them to determine 'how far back' he's come.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Agree with your crow--but we need arms, not another outfielder.

MEANT TA SAY PITCHER.....BUT WAS UNDERAH DUH INFLUENCE....MUCH LIKE NOW....xprost2x....AWK!

[Ivytalk]

These guys just can't keep any momentum. Last night, they had a stirring comeback with a 5-run 7th, highlighted by Utley and Burrell dingers, only to surrender the tying run quickly and lose in extra innings. And the Mets just keep on winning. Losses in June mean just as much as losses in September. :mad:

[GannonFan]

Alright, I've officially crossed over now - I can't stand this team one more minute. What a ridiculous excuse of effort put on last night. It's bad enough they were already 7.5 behind the Mets, but then they go out and put in a second straight stinker - heck, I thought 5 runs on 3 errors in one inning to blow open a tied game the night before was bad enough. Let's review last night:

- Phils give up 2 runs in the top of the first...there's some momentum
- Meyers strikes out the first two guys in the 3rd(?), then gives up 2 hits, then gets an easy ground ball out to 3rd which is promptly booted (yet again) by David Bell (since this guy barely hits his weight, and now apparently can't field any better than my two-year old, can someone remind me again why he's still on this team? The Phils don't have a decent defensive 3rd baseman anywhere in the minors? Heck, he doesn't have to hit - Bell doesn't anyway) - and then Meyers, who has looked peeved before when he gets no support, promptly walks in a run with the next batter before striking out the 3rd guy to strike out the side (1 run later).
- In the bottom of the inning, Howard gets on 2nd base - a deep fly ball to right center and Beltran makes a good play on it - Howard for some reason decides to tag up late and make for 3rd. Even with the relay throw getting away from the Mets, they still have ample time to pick it up and run down Howard, who's now stranded between 2nd and 3rd, thus ending another inning.
- In the next inning Rowand gets turned around and can't make an over-the-shoulder basket catch, letting Chavez leg out a triple. The next play is a single to rightfield - Bobby Abreu, in his infinite wisdom, fields the hit and somehow thinks he can gun down the speedy Chavez who is basically walking home - the throw gets away from the catcher (oh yeah, Chavez was safe, what a shocker) and the baserunner takes second on what should've been a routine RBI single. Of course, with Bobby, nothing is routine.
- Speaking of Bobby, he of the Golden Glove (apparently those have no value whatsoever anymore), the next play has him tracking down a fly ball to right that somehow bounces off of his glove (I'm convinced he took his eye off of it to make sure he didn't run into the fence - wouldn't want to mess up that pretty mug, eh Bobby?). We learn how he won that Golden Glove last year as somehow the official scorer gives out a triple on what was a routine fly ball to right and Bobby is thankfully not charged with an error.
- The Phils actually post 3 recorded errors, and god knows how many other errors that were magically wiped away by the official scorer.

They now sit 8.5 out of first, will be 9.5 after today, and are as dead as could be. They still have the Yanks and Red Sox and Toronto coming up so I'm sure they can make that Met lead even more substantial. As it stands, the Phils have two defensively bad corner outfielders, a gaping hole at 3rd base, and are still in need of at least 2 quality starting pitchers. I predict they scuff along the rest of the year, and then come on strong in the last few weeks to finish in the high 80's for wins, of course well out of playoff contention, and we enter the off season with the "we were in it right to the end" bs that the Phils have become masters of. Firing Charlie Manuel would be a start, but I'm not sure anybody could do anything with the heartless bunch of bums that are wearing Phillies uniforms these days. Just pure and simple brutal. Boooooooooooooooo.

[Ivytalk]

Alright, I've officially crossed over now - I can't stand this team one more minute. What a ridiculous excuse of effort put on last night. It's bad enough they were already 7.5 behind the Mets, but then they go out and put in a second straight stinker - heck, I thought 5 runs on 3 errors in one inning to blow open a tied game the night before was bad enough. Let's review last night:

- Phils give up 2 runs in the top of the first...there's some momentum
- Meyers strikes out the first two guys in the 3rd(?), then gives up 2 hits, then gets an easy ground ball out to 3rd which is promptly booted (yet again) by David Bell (since this guy barely hits his weight, and now apparently can't field any better than my two-year old, can someone remind me again why he's still on this team? The Phils don't have a decent defensive 3rd baseman anywhere in the minors? Heck, he doesn't have to hit - Bell doesn't anyway) - and then Meyers, who has looked peeved before when he gets no support, promptly walks in a run with the next batter before striking out the 3rd guy to strike out the side (1 run later).
- In the bottom of the inning, Howard gets on 2nd base - a deep fly ball to right center and Beltran makes a good play on it - Howard for some reason decides to tag up late and make for 3rd. Even with the relay throw getting away from the Mets, they still have ample time to pick it up and run down Howard, who's now stranded between 2nd and 3rd, thus ending another inning.
- In the next inning Rowand gets turned around and can't make an over-the-shoulder basket catch, letting Chavez leg out a triple. The next play is a single to rightfield - Bobby Abreu, in his infinite wisdom, fields the hit and somehow thinks he can gun down the speedy Chavez who is basically walking home - the throw gets away from the catcher (oh yeah, Chavez was safe, what a shocker) and the baserunner takes second on what should've been a routine RBI single. Of course, with Bobby, nothing is routine.
- Speaking of Bobby, he of the Golden Glove (apparently those have no value whatsoever anymore), the next play has him tracking down a fly ball to right that somehow bounces off of his glove (I'm convinced he took his eye off of it to make sure he didn't run into the fence - wouldn't want to mess up that pretty mug, eh Bobby?). We learn how he won that Golden Glove last year as somehow the official scorer gives out a triple on what was a routine fly ball to right and Bobby is thankfully not charged with an error.
- The Phils actually post 3 recorded errors, and god knows how many other errors that were magically wiped away by the official scorer.

They now sit 8.5 out of first, will be 9.5 after today, and are as dead as could be. They still have the Yanks and Red Sox and Toronto coming up so I'm sure they can make that Met lead even more substantial. As it stands, the Phils have two defensively bad corner outfielders, a gaping hole at 3rd base, and are still in need of at least 2 quality starting pitchers. I predict they scuff along the rest of the year, and then come on strong in the last few weeks to finish in the high 80's for wins, of course well out of playoff contention, and we enter the off season with the "we were in it right to the end" bs that the Phils have become masters of. Firing Charlie Manuel would be a start, but I'm not sure anybody could do anything with the heartless bunch of bums that are wearing Phillies uniforms these days. Just pure and simple brutal. Boooooooooooooooo.
C'mon, GannonFan, tell us what you really think! BTW, I agree with you.: smh :

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Alright, I've officially crossed over now - I can't stand this team one more minute. What a ridiculous excuse of effort put on last night. It's bad enough they were already 7.5 behind the Mets, but then they go out and put in a second straight stinker - heck, I thought 5 runs on 3 errors in one inning to blow open a tied game the night before was bad enough. Let's review last night:

- Phils give up 2 runs in the top of the first...there's some momentum
- Meyers strikes out the first two guys in the 3rd(?), then gives up 2 hits, then gets an easy ground ball out to 3rd which is promptly booted (yet again) by David Bell (since this guy barely hits his weight, and now apparently can't field any better than my two-year old, can someone remind me again why he's still on this team? The Phils don't have a decent defensive 3rd baseman anywhere in the minors? Heck, he doesn't have to hit - Bell doesn't anyway) - and then Meyers, who has looked peeved before when he gets no support, promptly walks in a run with the next batter before striking out the 3rd guy to strike out the side (1 run later).
- In the bottom of the inning, Howard gets on 2nd base - a deep fly ball to right center and Beltran makes a good play on it - Howard for some reason decides to tag up late and make for 3rd. Even with the relay throw getting away from the Mets, they still have ample time to pick it up and run down Howard, who's now stranded between 2nd and 3rd, thus ending another inning.
- In the next inning Rowand gets turned around and can't make an over-the-shoulder basket catch, letting Chavez leg out a triple. The next play is a single to rightfield - Bobby Abreu, in his infinite wisdom, fields the hit and somehow thinks he can gun down the speedy Chavez who is basically walking home - the throw gets away from the catcher (oh yeah, Chavez was safe, what a shocker) and the baserunner takes second on what should've been a routine RBI single. Of course, with Bobby, nothing is routine.
- Speaking of Bobby, he of the Golden Glove (apparently those have no value whatsoever anymore), the next play has him tracking down a fly ball to right that somehow bounces off of his glove (I'm convinced he took his eye off of it to make sure he didn't run into the fence - wouldn't want to mess up that pretty mug, eh Bobby?). We learn how he won that Golden Glove last year as somehow the official scorer gives out a triple on what was a routine fly ball to right and Bobby is thankfully not charged with an error.
- The Phils actually post 3 recorded errors, and god knows how many other errors that were magically wiped away by the official scorer.

They now sit 8.5 out of first, will be 9.5 after today, and are as dead as could be. They still have the Yanks and Red Sox and Toronto coming up so I'm sure they can make that Met lead even more substantial. As it stands, the Phils have two defensively bad corner outfielders, a gaping hole at 3rd base, and are still in need of at least 2 quality starting pitchers. I predict they scuff along the rest of the year, and then come on strong in the last few weeks to finish in the high 80's for wins, of course well out of playoff contention, and we enter the off season with the "we were in it right to the end" bs that the Phils have become masters of. Firing Charlie Manuel would be a start, but I'm not sure anybody could do anything with the heartless bunch of bums that are wearing Phillies uniforms these days. Just pure and simple brutal. Boooooooooooooooo.

You kept the faith longer than I did. I officially gave up on this team last week when they dropped three of four to Washington. : smh :

[GannonFan]

I'm still booing.... bbbbbbooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

[ngineer]

I was so disgusted last night, I turned the game off in the third inning. Can't disagree with anything Gannon posted. The team is very close to swirling into the bottom of the commode. Yes, it's only mid-June. But they have no starters who can be relied upon to give them 5, let alone 6 or 7 innings. The fielding is horrific. I remindful of the late '60's when Dick Stuart played for the Phils and was annointed, "Dr. Strangeglove".
Gullick can't wait until mid-late July to make a trade, if they expect to compete the rest of this year. Bell is worthless. Phils would have loved to keep Polanco last year, but he was in demand in the trade for Uribe. No one wants Bell. I'd give Nunez a shot at being the everyday 3B. He's scuffling off the bench right now, but he played very well for St. Louis last year on an everyday basis when Rolen got hurt. They have to move Burrell or Abreu for a starter.
Oh, yes--and for salt in the wound, how about Padilla's 8 inning, 3 hitter last night for Texas?? Figured that to happen...

[MR. CHICKEN]

SWEPT AT HOME.......AW MAN!........: smh :......BRAWK!

[bluehenbillk]

GF, I'm with you, I'm off the Philly pro sports bandwagon altogether.

[GannonFan]

GF, I'm with you, I'm off the Philly pro sports bandwagon altogether.

Well, the Phillies have no shot, the Sixers are going to be terrible for years, and the Flyers never seem to get it right. I don't think the Eagles are winning the Super Bowl this year, but I think people are far too quick to write them off as they have, just based on last year (McNabb was hurt right away in game 1 and they lost countless starters during the year). I wouldn't be shocked if the Eagles go 11-5 this year - the NFC East isn't as good as people make it out to be. Washington still doesn't have a QB and Dallas has TO but they caught a lot of breaks last year to get where they got to and they still didn't make the playoffs. As for the Giants, I'm not convinced Eli won't blow up again in a big game. Sure the Eagles don't have impressive receivers, but they won quite a few division titles without any before so I don't see where that's a major problem. They've improved their lines, especially the defensive line, which was the major problem last year. I'm on record - 11-5 and maybe a division title depending on how things shake out - playoffs at the bare minimum.

[Go...gate]

We interrupt this program for the following bulletin:

LET'S GO METS!!!!!! :hurray: :hurray:

[LeopardFan04]

If they can't turn things around this weekend against Tampa Bay...well...then, I don't know...although I wouldn't mind seeing fellow Pard and Rays Joe Maddon see some good fortune...

[bluehenbillk]

Well, the Phillies have no shot, the Sixers are going to be terrible for years, and the Flyers never seem to get it right. I don't think the Eagles are winning the Super Bowl this year, but I think people are far too quick to write them off as they have, just based on last year (McNabb was hurt right away in game 1 and they lost countless starters during the year). I wouldn't be shocked if the Eagles go 11-5 this year - the NFC East isn't as good as people make it out to be. Washington still doesn't have a QB and Dallas has TO but they caught a lot of breaks last year to get where they got to and they still didn't make the playoffs. As for the Giants, I'm not convinced Eli won't blow up again in a big game. Sure the Eagles don't have impressive receivers, but they won quite a few division titles without any before so I don't see where that's a major problem. They've improved their lines, especially the defensive line, which was the major problem last year. I'm on record - 11-5 and maybe a division title depending on how things shake out - playoffs at the bare minimum.

The Eagles are somewhere between 7-9 & 9-7

[Ivytalk]

The Fartin' Phils are losing 10-4 to the woeful Devil Rays in the 9th. If the Phils get swept by those bozos, Manuel is gone by Monday.:mad: :nonono2:

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The Fartin' Phils are losing 10-4 to the woeful Devil Rays in the 9th. If the Phils get swept by those bozos, Manuel is gone by Monday.:mad: :nonono2:

I'm so frustrated with the Phils right now I find myself rooting for them to lose. Go Devil Rays!

[ngineer]

Yeah, I was outside trimming bushes tonight. came in when it got dark, a little after 9 p.m. Wife says,"Aren't the Phillies on?"
I stop and think, yeah, guess so. I'm feeling pretty good, sweatin' for trimming for an hour and half, my 'workout ' for the day. Grab a lemonade, sit down and turn on the tube and couldn't believe what I saw..The DEVIL RAYS??? What fans were left at the end were booing lustily. They're callling up a AA pitcher tomorrow..This could get real ugly...heads rolling, bodies leaving...a 'sea of blue' in the stands...I blame Gullick more than anyone...Not one move made to strengthen the starting pitching...They've given up 33 runs in the last 4 games...and I acknowledge some horrible fielding assisted in this fiasco...:bang:

[LeopardFan04]

:pumpuke: That is all.

And the pathetic thing is they're still only 4 out of the wild card...all these games they should be winning...:bawling:

[ngineer]

:pumpuke: That is all.

And the pathetic thing is they're still only 4 out of the wild card...all these games they should be winning...:bawling:

WOW! Hadn't even started think of that...wild cards in June. That is pathetic. And right now, that doesn't even excite me because even if they'd somehow stumble into the playoffs, they'd get clobbered. If the ship aint righted by July 1, I'd expect the front office to make use of that month to start revamping....

[Ivytalk]

...my family and I are going to tonight's game!:o :bang:

[ngineer]

...my family and I are going to tonight's game!:o :bang:

Hey, it's still a good time with the family, with all the other things to do besides watching the fiasco on the field...Like going to the amusment park and the ballgame being the sideshow or House of Horrors..:D

[Marcus Garvey]

Grab a lemonade, sit down and turn on the tube and couldn't believe what I saw..The DEVIL RAYS???

You should know better. If you're going to watch the Phillies, you must grab hard liquor! It's the only way to suffer through their pitiful performances!
xlolx xlolx xlolx

Next time, try a dry martini with Beefeater, 2 olives and a lemon twist!

[ngineer]

You should know better. If you're going to watch the Phillies, you must grab hard liquor! It's the only way to suffer through their pitiful performances!
xlolx xlolx xlolx

Next time, try a dry martini with Beefeater, 2 olives and a lemon twist!

Nah, when facing this shaat (that's a Cap'n term of art) I'll need my Jack Daniels No. 9...on the rocks with a twist.:thumbsup:

[LeopardFan04]

...my family and I are going to tonight's game!:o :bang:


Hope at least that you had a good time with the family...:)


I think Chuck gets fired within the next week...:bang:

[Ivytalk]

Hey, it's still a good time with the family, with all the other things to do besides watching the fiasco on the field...Like going to the amusment park and the ballgame being the sideshow or House of Horrors..:D


It was like watching a train wreck and knowing there was nothing you could do about it. Very pleasant evening with Mrs. Ivy and Ivyette, but there was zero baseball energy in the park. Even after back-to-back homers by "Honest Abe" Nunez and Sal Fasano, which was the highlight of the game, nobody got into it. Manuel got tossed by the 1B ump in the 8th, as we were on our way out. Mathieson, the rookie pitcher just brought up from Reading, did OK for 6 innings but got no support. Mark my words: a loss tomorrow is the end of the Manuel era.: smh :

[Marcus Garvey]

D - E - V - I - L - R- A -Y - S

Go Devil Rays!!!! (And take Manuel with you when you leave town!)

[ngineer]

D - E - V - I - L - R- A -Y - S

Go Devil Rays!!!! (And take Manuel with you when you leave town!)

A reprieve for Chollie---for another three game set, anyway. Yankees and Red Sox are up. Either the Phils will shock the socks off us, or this could be real ugly..

[ngineer]

It was like watching a train wreck and knowing there was nothing you could do about it. Very pleasant evening with Mrs. Ivy and Ivyette, but there was zero baseball energy in the park. Even after back-to-back homers by "Honest Abe" Nunez and Sal Fasano, which was the highlight of the game, nobody got into it. Manuel got tossed by the 1B ump in the 8th, as we were on our way out. Mathieson, the rookie pitcher just brought up from Reading, did OK for 6 innings but got no support. Mark my words: a loss tomorrow is the end of the Manuel era.: smh :

Yeah, I watched some of it..Real odd on the tossing of Lidle and Manuel. Nothing was going on to spark it that I could see. I thought I could hear the famous "E-A-G-L-E-S, Eagles!" chant in the background! Gotta be one of the earliest appearances for that chant at a Phils game.

[Ivytalk]

Yeah, I watched some of it..Real odd on the tossing of Lidle and Manuel. Nothing was going on to spark it that I could see. I thought I could hear the famous "E-A-G-L-E-S, Eagles!" chant in the background! Gotta be one of the earliest appearances for that chant at a Phils game.

As for the tossing, I couldn't understand it either. There was a close "out" call at first base that went against us, but nobody protested it. I figure that there was just some generalized yapping from the Phils' dugout that Lidle (who was shelled the night before) was in the middle of.

[GannonFan]

I thought I could hear the famous "E-A-G-L-E-S, Eagles!" chant in the background! Gotta be one of the earliest appearances for that chant at a Phils game.

Not at all - I've heard it on opening day before, and I wouldn't doubt that it happens in Clearwater during Exhibition Games but as I'm never there for exhibition games I can't be too sure. You can't get this close to 10,000 losses as a franchise and not have a whole heap of crappy years of baseball.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

This three game set with the Devil Rays was one of the rare opportunities I would have had to watch the Phillies on TV and I'm proud to say that I didn't tune in for a single pitch. I'm with GannonFan - BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Now - Go Yankees! (I never thought I would say that).

[GannonFan]

There you go - feel the boo! Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[MR. CHICKEN]

DALLAS IS ENROUTE....TA DUH DUGOUT......WILL FINISH OUT DUH SEASON........LOU PINELLA........GETS UH TURN NEXT YEAR....(PER DUH BIRD'S CRYSTAL CHANDELIER...AH MEAN BALL)......:nod:......BRAWK!

LITTLE SOMETHIN' TA EASE DUH BOBBY ABREU PAIN...AWK!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[ngineer]

Not at all - I've heard it on opening day before, and I wouldn't doubt that it happens in Clearwater during Exhibition Games but as I'm never there for exhibition games I can't be too sure. You can't get this close to 10,000 losses as a franchise and not have a whole heap of crappy years of baseball.

Now that you mention it, I seem to recall an opening day in recent times when that occured...GO Iggles!:D

[ngineer]

DALLAS IS ENROUTE....TA DUH DUGOUT......WILL FINISH OUT DUH SEASON........LOU PINELLA........GETS UH TURN NEXT YEAR....(PER DUH BIRD'S CRYSTAL CHANDELIER...AH MEAN BALL)......:nod:......BRAWK!

LITTLE SOMETHIN' TA EASE DUH BOBBY ABREU PAIN...AWK!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

He's your standard '3-hole hitter'...

[blukeys]

Nah, when facing this shaat (that's a Cap'n term of art) I'll need my Jack Daniels No. 9...on the rocks with a twist.:thumbsup:


As a JD drinker I am confused. What twist do you need? ON the rocks is perfect no twist needed.

Of course after watching the Phillies a double is called for.

Thank goodness the new park has multiple bars on the premises!!!!!!:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[LeopardFan04]

Plugged away and got a good win tonight...this team is so streaky...

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Plugged away and got a good win tonight...this team is so streaky...

I don't care if they win 10 in a row, I'm not watching them. They may lure some of the rest of you back with a small win streak, but I know this team too well. A streak of losing ten of twelve is always just around the corner...

[GannonFan]

Amen to that - they still have Manuel putting in the lineups, they still have David "Black Hole" Bell at 3rd, two clearly disinterested corner outfielders, and a guy who looks like he's straight out of a 70's porn movie catching. Not to mention they have one starting pitcher of note and then a bunch of slop after him. I'll watch Utley and Howard and Rowand and Meyers, but I can't get too excited about anything else. They'll win between 81 and 88 games and finish several games out of the postseason. But hey, at least September will be kept free of any real pennant chase and we can focus on more important things, like Blue Hen Football. ;)

[Marcus Garvey]

a guy who looks like he's straight out of a 70's porn movie catching.

Leave the mustache out of this!!!! Incidently, I couldn't find a good pic of Sal to link, otherwise I would have included one.

Have you guys seen this website?
http://www.philliesnation.com

You gotta love the fact that they have a "Steve Jeltz Award." Speaking of Jeltz, here's Joe Sportsfan's list of "worthless baseball cards:"
http://www.joesportsfan.com/CardCollection.html

Scroll down for Jeltz's. I only wish Steve had spent less time letting his "Soul Glo," and more time learning how to hit!

[Ivytalk]

Leave the mustache out of this!!!! Incidently, I couldn't find a good pic of Sal to link, otherwise I would have included one.

Have you guys seen this website?
http://www.philliesnation.com

You gotta love the fact that they have a "Steve Jeltz Award." Speaking of Jeltz, here's Joe Sportsfan's list of "worthless baseball cards:"http://www.joesportsfan.com/CardCollection.html

Scroll down for Jeltz's. I only wish Steve had spent less time letting his "Soul Glo," and more time learning how to hit!

What a great site! I'd forgotten all about the immortal Porfi Altamirano....
But Charlie still has to go, and sooner rather than later. Buy out his contract and let him retire to the Land of the Thundering Herd!:p

[ngineer]

I don't care if they win 10 in a row, I'm not watching them. They may lure some of the rest of you back with a small win streak, but I know this team too well. A streak of losing ten of twelve is always just around the corner...

I agree. Just enough to teaze one back in..It was excellently played game, though, by both teams.

[blukeys]

Amen to that - they still have Manuel putting in the lineups, they still have David "Black Hole" Bell at 3rd, two clearly disinterested corner outfielders, and a guy who looks like he's straight out of a 70's porn movie catching. Not to mention they have one starting pitcher of note and then a bunch of slop after him. I'll watch Utley and Howard and Rowand and Meyers, but I can't get too excited about anything else. They'll win between 81 and 88 games and finish several games out of the postseason. But hey, at least September will be kept free of any real pennant chase and we can focus on more important things, like Blue Hen Football. ;)

Precisely the reason you should not desert the Figthin's. They give enough entertainment till September when the real season starts. No one has to stay up late watching playoff games from the West. No confusion on what to do on weekends. No having to tape a baseball game while you're at a Hen's game and your house needs work and the leaves need to be raked.

Ryan Howard has 2 home runs tonite one a monster to right.

[MR. CHICKEN]

RYAN AN' CHASE..........DAT WHY AH WATCH............RAWK!

[blukeys]

RYAN AN' CHASE..........DAT WHY AH WATCH............RAWK!


If there is a better right side infield combo, I'd love to see it!!!

[blukeys]

Ryan Howard 7 RBI's tonite so far.

[GannonFan]

And there is David "Can't Field to Save my Life" Bell coughing up an easy first out to open the 8th that led to the Yankees putting 4 on the scoreboard and erasing a two run Phillies lead. He can't hit, he obviously can't field - there really isn't much else to the game, so why is he even out there? I'd bite the bullet and put Nunez (who can't hit either) in there and at least see an upgrade in fielding. Bell's a butcher at 3rd.

[Ivytalk]

Not to mention the ineffective middle relief and the "destructo" performance by the 8th-inning "setup man," Arthur "What Happened to My Fastball?" Rhodes.:mad:

Manuel is as predictable as the sunrise when it comes to his pitching rotation. He should have known about Rhodes's awful career numbers against the Yankees. The Phils should have won last night. They wasted that awesome performance by Howard.: smh :

[Ivytalk]

How bad can it get? The Friggins get shut out by Jaret Wright --JARET FUGGIN' WRIGHT -- and waste a fine quality start by Hamels.
Take them out and shoot them! Oh, and June 30 is a nice round number to let the Head Hayseed have his walkin' papers. Disgusting!:mad: :mad: :nonono2: : smh :

[SunCoastBlueHen]

How bad can it get? The Friggins get shut out by Jaret Wright --JARET FUGGIN' WRIGHT -- and waste a fine quality start by Hamels.
Take them out and shoot them! Oh, and June 30 is a nice round number to let the Head Hayseed have his walkin' papers. Disgusting!:mad: :mad: :nonono2: : smh :

Not surprising at all! Thanks for keeping me posted on the outcome as I have vowed not to directly follow any Phillies game (I will, however, check the box score in the morning to see how Howard, Utley and Rowand did).

[ngineer]

Precisely the reason you should not desert the Figthin's. They give enough entertainment till September when the real season starts. No one has to stay up late watching playoff games from the West. No confusion on what to do on weekends. No having to tape a baseball game while you're at a Hen's game and your house needs work and the leaves need to be raked.

Ryan Howard has 2 home runs tonite one a monster to right.

Good point. "The Phillies take the stress out of watching baseball--You know they're not going anywhere, so just enjoy the younguns"

I heard they painted an "H" on the seat in the third deck where Howard hit the ball last night. Which reminded me that the Phillies had previously said they were going to still comemorate Stargell's blast as they had the The Vet with the gold star with the black "S", but I haven't been able to pick it out. Is it somewhere out there in the right field stands??

[GannonFan]

Good point. "The Phillies take the stress out of watching baseball--You know they're not going anywhere, so just enjoy the younguns"

I heard they painted an "H" on the seat in the third deck where Howard hit the ball last night. Which reminded me that the Phillies had previously said they were going to still comemorate Stargell's blast as they had the The Vet with the gold star with the black "S", but I haven't been able to pick it out. Is it somewhere out there in the right field stands??

It makes you wonder - how could they properly commemorate Starge's blast when it happened in an entirely different ballpark? How do you tell where it would've landed when it wasn't even hit in the stadium. Hopefully, that was just another lame Phillies idea that never was followed up on.

[ngineer]

It makes you wonder - how could they properly commemorate Starge's blast when it happened in an entirely different ballpark? How do you tell where it would've landed when it wasn't even hit in the stadium. Hopefully, that was just another lame Phillies idea that never was followed up on.

I just figured they'd take the measurement to the old gold star at the Vet and transfer that to the same location at CBP. Likely in the third deck, too.
Actually, it was longer than that because the ball went through the tunnel they marked with the star and traveled out of the stadium..:rotateh:

[LeopardFan04]

The bases, plate, and mound (along with the goalposts) are marked off in the parking lot where the Vet stood...is it possible that it's out there in the spot where it was?

[ngineer]

The bases, plate, and mound (along with the goalposts) are marked off in the parking lot where the Vet stood...is it possible that it's out there in the spot where it was?

Hadn't thought about it in that context. My recollection was they were going to mark IN the new stadium as if Stargell had hit it at CBP. I normally don't park in the lot where the old stadium used to be. I do know they erected a brick wall and plaque about the Vet along Pattison Avenue, but I've not walked down that way to read it. I'll try to remember to look around down there on my next trip.

[ngineer]

Well, they did it again today. Came roaring back from a 6-1 deficit to tie in the 9th on Utley's home run, (while blowing numerous opportunities to grab the win wit RISPs left on the pond--Burrell--AGAIN!) Then we get to the 12th inning and the Phils grab the lead in the top, only to give it away in the bottom. Victorino bobbles single to left allowing Crisp to score from second to tie. Brings up 'Big Papi' Ortiz and you guessed it..smash into the left center gap scoring runner from second. That's how it's done Pat!..
Camera showed Manuel just go over and sit on the bench, head bowed and shaking...I do think the end is near, but this was not Manuel's fault--the players don't know how to win. When the big play is needed, the big hit required they downright choke.

[Ivytalk]

Stop the bleeding! The yawning vortex of futility that is Phillies baseball is getting deeper by the minute. A 7-4 loss in an afternoon game at Baltimore that wasn't as close as the score indicated, and a 5-1 deficit in the nightcap. Putrescence! Excrement! Fire Manuel now!!!: smh : :nonono2: :mad:

[LeopardFan04]

9-3, bottom 5...horrible...I'll so desperate to watch sports...I now have on the NBA draft! :rotateh:

[MR. CHICKEN]

IS DAT DALLAS....(DUH GREAT WHITE LIGHT)....COMIN' THRU DUH TUNNELL?......SEE YA CHARLIE!

[MR. CHICKEN]

12-4......SEEN 'NUFF?..................AWK!

[ngineer]

IS DAT DALLAS....(DUH GREAT WHITE LIGHT)....COMIN' THRU DUH TUNNELL?......SEE YA CHARLIE!

Don't think you'll see your white knight there squawk box. Dallas is beyond is time. He's a pretty arrogant self-important personality that will not fly. Everybody loved Larry Bowa's gung-ho, kick-ass mentality and we saw how far that got the team and Bowa... I agree Manuel has to go and they blew it in not getting Leyland, but I'm not sure whose available out there. Maybe they need to go in an unconventional direction--Larry Anderson 'come on down'---at least we'd have some laughs and could understand what the manager was saying.:D

[GannonFan]

I agree Manuel has to go and they blew it in not getting Leyland,

I agree on Leyland full-heartedly - best manager in baseball today and we only brought him in for a courtesy interview after he made it be known publicly that he was very interested in the Phillies job. But of course, Ed Wade in his infinite wisdom, felt that bringing in Jim Thome's preferred choice of manager was more important and that's why were stuck with Manuel right now. Look what Leyland has done in Detroit with a previously unknown pitching staff - would've loved to see that happen in Philly but that train has left. I wouldn't mind bringing in Pinella, dumping Burrell, Bell, and Abreu, and just starting over from there. One day we'll be done with all of Wade's sins, just not anytime soon though. :(

[Marcus Garvey]

I got 20 bucks that says the next manager that Dave Montgomery lets Gillick hire is a $@^#ing Penn grad!!!!!
What's Doug Glanville doing?
I swear, the "gold old boy" network in the front office is killing them!

[Ivytalk]

That Bernero kid who's getting a start in Toronto wasn't even good enough to stick with the KC Royals.

The Phils will lose at least 2 of 3 in Toronto and will return home to a sea of empty seats for the upcoming Pittsburgh and San Diego series.

I will go to church on Sunday, light a candle, and pray that Manuel gets the boot at the All-Star break!

[blukeys]

Don't think you'll see your white knight there squawk box. Dallas is beyond is time.


Dallas enjoys his Saturdays at the Tub too much in September and October to back to the dugout!!!!!!!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[GannonFan]

Dallas enjoys his Saturdays at the Tub too much in September and October to back to the dugout!!!!!!!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Agreed - Dallas Green only moonlights for the Phillies now just to pass the time until Delaware football season comes around - you have to say, it's a great gig, I mean, when are the Phillies playing meaningful baseball in September and October anyway? It's been a long time since 1993 and luckily for Dallas, the Hens have had some great years since then. ;)

[SunCoastBlueHen]

That Bernero kid who's getting a start in Toronto wasn't even good enough to stick with the KC Royals.

The Phils will lose at least 2 of 3 in Toronto and will return home to a sea of empty seats for the upcoming Pittsburgh and San Diego series.

I will go to church on Sunday, light a candle, and pray that Manuel gets the boot at the All-Star break!

He's doing well so far. 8 runs and 3 HR after two innings of work. Go Phillies!

[ngineer]

He's doing well so far. 8 runs and 3 HR after two innings of work. Go Phillies!


I turned it off. I couldn't stand to watch. Hey, what are they doing with Burrell? Hasn't played for a few days now. There were rumors today of a trade, but nothing posted on the internet. I hope they can move him for something decent. He's lost his 'mojo' in Philly. Looked like a lost puppy at the plate in Boston.

[ngineer]

The Phils have kept up the momentum losing to Toronto 5-2. They have now gone 4-17 over te last three weeks...Lidle did his usual--5 great innings then fell apart. What the hell is wrong with him? Must be a mental block about entering the sixth inning?

[blukeys]

The Phils have kept up the momentum losing to Toronto 5-2. They have now gone 4-17 over te last three weeks...Lidle did his usual--5 great innings then fell apart. What the hell is wrong with him? Must be a mental block about entering the sixth inning?


The Phillies have terrible starters. If pitching is 90% of baseball then the Phils are 90% DEAD!!!!

Jon Lieber is a great guy to have as your 3rd or 4th starter but as YOUR ACE?????????????xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

What has Lidle EVER DONE to inspire confidence? He is a stopgap pitcher. In the 60's and 70's he would never had made it out of the minors but the pitching pool is so watered down that he is considered a major leaguer.

For God's Sakes give me Ron Schueler over Lidle or two thirds of the current staff!!!!!!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod:

[Ivytalk]

The Phillies are the worst team in baseball right now. Manuel is spouting inanities like "we'd better start winning some games." Well, DUH!!! Start by throwing that sorry SOS out.

[ngineer]

The Phillies have terrible starters. If pitching is 90% of baseball then the Phils are 90% DEAD!!!!

Jon Lieber is a great guy to have as your 3rd or 4th starter but as YOUR ACE?????????????xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

What has Lidle EVER DONE to inspire confidence? He is a stopgap pitcher. In the 60's and 70's he would never had made it out of the minors but the pitching pool is so watered down that he is considered a major leaguer.

For God's Sakes give me Ron Schueler over Lidle or two thirds of the current staff!!!!!!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod:

Wow, there's a 'blast from the past.' No question that due to expansion, most teams staffs are filled with arms that never would have seen the light of day in 'bigs' back in the 60's and 70's. I'm reading the biography of Roberto Clemente and am constantly reminded of the difference in quality, especially in the pitching back then in terms of depth.

[ngineer]

Sounds like there are a number of trade discussions occuring with the Tigers and Rangers, but the names their interested in are Abreu and Delucci. Left-handed bats wanted. Burrell has become a head case, and Manuel acknowledged as much yesterday. Burrell finally saw action for the first time in 5 games--and as a DH. Said he needed a mental break. Hell it's only end of June/early July--AND IT"S BASEBALL!!! If he needs a mental break from playing a game, then he shouldn't be in the game!xidiotx

[blukeys]

Sounds like there are a number of trade discussions occuring with the Tigers and Rangers, but the names their interested in are Abreu and Delucci. Left-handed bats wanted. Burrell has become a head case, and Manuel acknowledged as much yesterday. Burrell finally saw action for the first time in 5 games--and as a DH. Said he needed a mental break. Hell it's only end of June/early July--AND IT"S BASEBALL!!! If he needs a mental break from playing a game, then he shouldn't be in the game!xidiotx

Mr. Clutch (Burell) finally got a hit with 2 outs and runners in scoring position, His first since April 29th.

How about trading Burell for Leyland!!!!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Ivytalk]

Sounds like there are a number of trade discussions occuring with the Tigers and Rangers, but the names their interested in are Abreu and Delucci. Left-handed bats wanted. Burrell has become a head case, and Manuel acknowledged as much yesterday. Burrell finally saw action for the first time in 5 games--and as a DH. Said he needed a mental break. Hell it's only end of June/early July--AND IT"S BASEBALL!!! If he needs a mental break from playing a game, then he shouldn't be in the game!xidiotx

It would be nice to pry loose one of those bright young Tiger pitchers, but I'm not sure that's in the cards.

[ngineer]

Holy Cow, it's July and Charlie is still here, and the Phils just won their second straight in the bottom of the ninth. I'm going down Thursday with my daughter--it's Lady's Night--so we'll have a good time regardless of what occurs on the field...:nod:

[Marcus Garvey]

It would be nice to pry loose one of those bright young Tiger pitchers, but I'm not sure that's in the cards.


The Tigers would be complete morons to trade away any player of value for Abreu. Last I checked, they've got the best record in the A.L. without him. While he'd be a nice addition, it shouldn't be at the expense of their current lineup.

Should the Tigers trade for him, I think it would be the Baseball equivalent of the Theo Ratliff, Toni Kukoc, Nazr Mohammed, and Pepe Sanchez for Dikembe Motumbo in 2001. The Sixers went from being the best team in the league, to one that struggled to finish the rest of the season above .500!

[GannonFan]

Should the Tigers trade for him, I think it would be the Baseball equivalent of the Theo Ratliff, Toni Kukoc, Nazr Mohammed, and Pepe Sanchez for Dikembe Motumbo in 2001. The Sixers went from being the best team in the league, to one that struggled to finish the rest of the season above .500!

Let's not get crazy here with the analogy - Ratliff was injured and specualtion was that he wouldn't even be available for the playoffs when that trade went down. Nazr was a rookie or close to it at that point and certainly not a major contributor, and Pepe was simply there to make the Sixers look nice to the local fanbase. The Sixers did manage to win the Eastern Conference that year and were the only team to take a game from the Lakers so I don't think you can say it was a horrible trade - just a trade for the very short term. If you were going to bring up lopsided trades I would've thought you'd bring up the 5 for 1 trade when the Phillies got Von Hayes - heck, we're still reeling from that trade as Julio Franco is still playing going on 24 years after that trade.

[Marcus Garvey]

Let's not get crazy here with the analogy - Ratliff was injured and specualtion was that he wouldn't even be available for the playoffs when that trade went down. Nazr was a rookie or close to it at that point and certainly not a major contributor, and Pepe was simply there to make the Sixers look nice to the local fanbase. The Sixers did manage to win the Eastern Conference that year and were the only team to take a game from the Lakers so I don't think you can say it was a horrible trade - just a trade for the very short term. If you were going to bring up lopsided trades I would've thought you'd bring up the 5 for 1 trade when the Phillies got Von Hayes - heck, we're still reeling from that trade as Julio Franco is still playing going on 24 years after that trade.

They went 14-12 after the Mutumbo trade. Hell, Mutumbo played worse than an injured Ratliff. Before the trade, they were 42-14, with a 6 game winning streak, including a win over said Lakers. They traded him after only 1 full season with the team!
Conclusion: 2nd worst trade ever! (76ers edition).
This is why I'd rather watch the Suns. The Sickers are the only Philly team I've abandonded since leaving PA.

As for the Von Hayes analogy... The Phillies were already a team in decline before the Hayes trade. The core of those '76-'81 teams was half gone, the rest getting old. The Tigers are a young team on the rise, like the '01 Sixers.

[GannonFan]

They went 14-12 after the Mutumbo trade. Hell, Mutumbo played worse than an injured Ratliff. Before the trade, they were 42-14, with a 6 game winning streak, including a win over said Lakers. They traded him after only 1 full season with the team!
Conclusion: 2nd worst trade ever! (76ers edition).
This is why I'd rather watch the Suns. The Sickers are the only Philly team I've abandonded since leaving PA.



2nd worst ever? You give the Sixers too much credit. The Sixers did manage to trade Wilt Chamberlain away for nobody in the late 60's, traded the #1 pick in the draft (Brad Daugherty) for Roy Hinson and cash, traded Moses Malone for Jeff Ruland, and traded Barkely for Hornacek (I know there were others in those trades but those were the players of note, before and after the trades). I liked Ratliff too, but since that trade he's played all of two full seasons, the other seasons seeing plenty of playing time lost to injury. His ppg and rpg peaked out with that season with the Sixers, and he's a marginal player at best now. In actuality, the Sixers may have gotten rid of Ratliff at exactly the right time - his stock was never going to be as high as it was then. And like I said, the Sixers didn't exactly suffer that season after the trade - sure the win-loss in the regular season wasn't great afterwards, but winning 3 straight playoff series can cure a lot of ills. Besides, I think the Sixers took advantage of a very clear window of opportunity - the East was never as weak as they were that year and the Sixers, with a decent but not great team, took advantage of that window. Hard to see them as a team on the rise though, even then.

[blukeys]

Holy Cow, it's July and Charlie is still here, and the Phils just won their second straight in the bottom of the ninth. I'm going down Thursday with my daughter--it's Lady's Night--so we'll have a good time regardless of what occurs on the field...:nod:


Not to mention the fact that the place has 4 bars where you can go if things get too bad or too boring!!!!!xlolx xlolx :nod:

Best of luck to you and your daughter. Sounds like a great night for "Daddy's Girl" :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[Ivytalk]

That creative genius Charlie Manuel brings out that worthless POS Arthur Rhodes into a tie game in the 9th. Two out of 3 reach base. Then he brings in Flash Gordon, who serves up a high slider to Khalil "I'm black, really I am" Greene for a 3-run bomb. The Phils got only one run out of a bases-loaded, no-out 8th inning. The Phils' flailing bats air-conditioned the stadium on a muggy night.:nonono2:

But, hey, ngineer, I hope you and your daughter have a great time tomorrow night!:cool:

[blukeys]

That creative genius Charlie Manuel brings out that worthless POS Arthur Rhodes into a tie game in the 9th. Two out of 3 reach base. Then he brings in Flash Gordon, who serves up a high slider to Khalil "I'm black, really I am" Greene for a 3-run bomb. The Phils got only one run out of a bases-loaded, no-out 8th inning. The Phils' flailing bats air-conditioned the stadium on a muggy night.:nonono2:

But, hey, ngineer, I hope you and your daughter have a great time tomorrow night!:cool:


Yes even the legendary Danny Ozark handled the bullpen of Gene Garber and Tug McGraw better than Manuel. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

I'm still waiting to see his genius hitting philosophies help Rollins, Bell, Bureell, etc.

Let's see Lieber is the pitching ace and no one knows how to take a pitch other than Abreu. Do the Phils even have a manager??????????????

[ngineer]

I got home from a zoning hearing tonight. Phils were trailing 3-1 on the ride,but by the time I hit the garage it's 3-3! I rush in to see the last inning. Can't believe Rhodes is in. Pitching change-Ok-I'll quickly go get out of my 'monkey suit' and hustle back. I'm back in under 2 minutes and it's 6-3!!!:bang: WTFH??!! (I find out). Then I watch the 'highlights' and see how the Phils loaded the bases and only go one run...They were touted as an 'offensive' monster this year...well, they're virtually last in batting. With all of the strikeouts, why hasn't there been some calls for Milt Thompson's scalp--isn't he the hitting coach?
Still looking forward to my visit tomorrow with my daughter. Thanks for the nice comments. I taught her how to keep score from the time she was 5, so we'll chart the game. Since she got married, these times we get together seem even more precious...:nod:

[Marcus Garvey]

With all of the strikeouts, why hasn't there been some calls for Milt Thompson's scalp--isn't he the hitting coach?

Sheeeooot... I forgot he was their hitting coach. I guess Juan Samuel was too busy this season. But if Thompson is their hitting coach, then I guess the team's bats this season have been a microcosm of Milt's career:

Milt Thomspon: Baseball-Reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thompmi02.shtml)

[blukeys]

I got home from a zoning hearing tonight. Phils were trailing 3-1 on the ride,but by the time I hit the garage it's 3-3! I rush in to see the last inning. Can't believe Rhodes is in. Pitching change-Ok-I'll quickly go get out of my 'monkey suit' and hustle back. I'm back in under 2 minutes and it's 6-3!!!:bang: WTFH??!! (I find out). Then I watch the 'highlights' and see how the Phils loaded the bases and only go one run...They were touted as an 'offensive' monster this year...well, they're virtually last in batting. With all of the strikeouts, why hasn't there been some calls for Milt Thompson's scalp--isn't he the hitting coach?
Still looking forward to my visit tomorrow with my daughter. Thanks for the nice comments. I taught her how to keep score from the time she was 5, so we'll chart the game. Since she got married, these times we get together seem even more precious...:nod:

Milt Thompson is the hitting coach!!!!!!!!!:eek::bawling:

I didn't know that and that explains a lot. Such as why our leadoff hitter is immune from taking a pitch. Why our cleanup hitter (Burell) still hasn't learned the strike zone.

For the record I thought Mauel was supposed to be a great hitting instructor!!!!!!!@

ngineer spend the night connecting with daughter No.1!!!

The Phils will never deliver for any of us this year,

She will instead fondly remeber the night as the time "My Dad loved me so much he took me to watch a bunch of losers" xlolx xlolx

Women see these things this way. You might as well use it to your advantage!!!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[bluehenbillk]

It doesn't matter when, there is zero chance that Charlie is the manager in '07 & whoever replaces him this year will only be interim. Gillick will put his stamp on the new skipper.

[ngineer]

Milt Thompson is the hitting coach!!!!!!!!!:eek::bawling:

I didn't know that and that explains a lot. Such as why our leadoff hitter is immune from taking a pitch. Why our cleanup hitter (Burell) still hasn't learned the strike zone.

For the record I thought Mauel was supposed to be a great hitting instructor!!!!!!!@

ngineer spend the night connecting with daughter No.1!!!

The Phils will never deliver for any of us this year,

She will instead fondly remeber the night as the time "My Dad loved me so much he took me to watch a bunch of losers" xlolx xlolx

Women see these things this way. You might as well use it to your advantage!!!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

The Phillies game was an 'afterthought'. We had planned to go to Philly to see the Wyeth Exhibit at the Art Museum. Since our tickets are for the 2p.m. admission, and we'd be out by 4 or so, SHE suggested going to a game, if the Phils were home, and so they are, and so we go...;)

[blukeys]

The Phillies game was an 'afterthought'. We had planned to go to Philly to see the Wyeth Exhibit at the Art Museum. Since our tickets are for the 2p.m. admission, and we'd be out by 4 or so, SHE suggested going to a game, if the Phils were home, and so they are, and so we go...;)


Very good exhibit. I also took my date to Longwood after the Wyeth exhibit. Since I am not married to her I had to work harder!!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

However Longwood should always work for any guy wanting to get Lucky!!!!!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Very good exhibit. I also took my date to Longwood after the Wyeth exhibit. Since I am not married to her I had to work harder!!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

However Longwood should always work for any guy wanting to get Lucky!!!!!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:


Longwood and the Wyeth exhibit helped me land my wife. :nod: She called me a helpless barbarian until I showed her my artistic side. :)

By the way, for the holiday enthusiasts, ain't nothing better than Longwood at Christmas time. Then dinner at the Mendenhall Inn afterwards.

[blukeys]

Longwood and the Wyeth exhibit helped me land my wife. :nod: She called me a helpless barbarian until I showed her my artistic side. :)

By the way, for the holiday enthusiasts, ain't nothing better than Longwood at Christmas time. Then dinner at the Mendenhall Inn afterwards.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Guaranteed getting into the pants of any prospective female!!!!!! I love the Mendenhall Inn
!!!!!

You are at 2nd base with just the Menu!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I guess it is no secret why you have 4 daughters alreadyxlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Don't let any of your girls go north to see Longwood or the Mendenhall Inn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[Ivytalk]

Another blown lead, another lost game, another lost series. I predict a 72-90 season. Will somebody please fire that hayseed yokel inbred jerkov?: smh :

[bluehenbillk]

Mendenhall Inn, fine choice work & live very close to it. I reccomend the jumbo shrimp stuffed with crab meat.....delicious.

[ngineer]

We had an excellent day in Philly, even with the Phillies daily debacle. Wyeth exhibit is excellent. One of my favorite artists.
It was Ladies Night at Citizens Bank. Daughter got her drinks half-price, a Phillies logo painted on her hand, and an entire night just bonding with dear old dad. We took turns keeping the scorecard, which allowed me to run for the snacks.
Saw the end tonight, too, after mowing the lawn...This is turning ugly. There is no juice in this team. Billy Wagner was quoted the other day saying the Phillies have just as much talent (positionally) as the Mets, but there are no leaders on the team..Burrell, Abreu, Bell have to go in order to upgrade the starting pitching. Also need a catcher. Start the renovation now.

[Marcus Garvey]

In the field, they need (in order of importance):
Starting Catcher: Wish they hadn't traded away Jonny Estrada
Third Baseman: Placido Polanco, where are you????
Right Fielder: Actually, Victorino could probably start here everyday
Left Fielder: Bobby Abreu is a natural DH.

Starting pitching cannot be shored up to save this season. It's that simple. If I'm Gillick, I would start planning for '07 right now. I would not make any trades before the deadline unless they'll help the team next year and in the future. Unfortunately, Burrell, Liberthall and Bell are all nearly "untradeable."

Incidently, they need to ban the f'ing "No Trade Clause!" WTF!!! If a player is eligible for free agency at the end of his contract, and said contract is guarenteed, then why the hell does one need a no trade clause!!!!! :bang:

[Ivytalk]

So last night Ian Snell joined the William Van Landingham Society, composed of mediocre (or worse) pitchers who beat the Phillies regularly but hardly anybody else. Other members: Bill Faul (Cubs), Bill Stoneman (Expos), Clay Kirby (Padres), etc. But I'm showing my age...

Who will join me in my vow not to attend another Phillies game until Charlie Manuel is fired? It's become so bad that "Grand Master Hick" has asked all of greater Philly to pray for the team! Swayt Jayzus! Dave Montgomery, blow it out yer azz!:mad: :nonono2:

[Marcus Garvey]

So last night Ian Snell joined the William Van Landingham Society, composed of mediocre (or worse) pitchers who beat the Phillies regularly but hardly anybody else. Other members: Bill Faul (Cubs), Bill Stoneman (Expos), Clay Kirby (Padres), etc. But I'm showing my age...
:

Can we add Bob Tewksbury (Cards) to that list?

[Ivytalk]

Can we add Bob Tewksbury (Cards) to that list?

Sure. And Steve Trachsel (Mets), at least until recently.

[ngineer]

In the field, they need (in order of importance):
Starting Catcher: Wish they hadn't traded away Jonny Estrada
Third Baseman: Placido Polanco, where are you????
Right Fielder: Actually, Victorino could probably start here everyday
Left Fielder: Bobby Abreu is a natural DH.

Starting pitching cannot be shored up to save this season. It's that simple. If I'm Gillick, I would start planning for '07 right now. I would not make any trades before the deadline unless they'll help the team next year and in the future. Unfortunately, Burrell, Liberthall and Bell are all nearly "untradeable."
Incidently, they need to ban the f'ing "No Trade Clause!" WTF!!! If a player is eligible for free agency at the end of his contract, and said contract is guarenteed, then why the hell does one need a no trade clause!!!!! :bang:

That's why we don't have Polanco. He would have been a natural fit over there, but Detroit didn't want Bell in the Urbina trade, and for good reason. Agreed on Victorino, too. Your're right, Gullick has to be thinking 2007 right now and build for that. Lou Pinella in the wings???:smiley_wi

[Ivytalk]

Well, we've reached the All-Star break of this sorry season. Will Gillick pull the trigger? Every Manuel post-game press conference proves that the man has lost control and doesn't deserve the job. The fact that the Phils finally won a series -- against the hapless Pittsburgh Pirates -- shouldn't serve as a "stay of execution."

[Marcus Garvey]

I'm almost to the point where I'm ready to say f%$# it! Keep Manuel for the rest of this season. I figure it'll be easier to fire him on Oct. 2 and find a quality manager to take over than to do it now. If you fire him now, the likelyhood of getting a decent guy seems unlikely.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I'm almost to the point where I'm ready to say f%$# it! Keep Manuel for the rest of this season. I figure it'll be easier to fire him on Oct. 2 and find a quality manager to take over than to do it now. If you fire him now, the likelyhood of getting a decent guy seems unlikely.

I agree with that 100%. We, as fans, are resigned to suffer through the rest of this season. There better damn well be a complete overhaul for next year though - starting with the manager!

[Ivytalk]

I'm almost to the point where I'm ready to say f%$# it! Keep Manuel for the rest of this season. I figure it'll be easier to fire him on Oct. 2 and find a quality manager to take over than to do it now. If you fire him now, the likelyhood of getting a decent guy seems unlikely.

Piniella is probably out tarpon fishing now anyway. Is Danny Ozark still alive? Maybe we could bring him back as an interim skipper. Even a dead Gene Mauch could do a better job!:p

[ngineer]

Piniella is probably out tarpon fishing now anyway. Is Danny Ozark still alive? Maybe we could bring him back as an interim skipper. Even a dead Gene Mauch could do a better job!:p

I bet the "Little General" is still kickin' dirt...:D

[Go...gate]

I think Mauch passed away last year.

[Marcus Garvey]

You know what's sad? That Charlie is actually worse than a good collection of stiffs who managed the Phillies:
John Felske
Lee ("F*** those f***in' fans) Elia
Nick Leyva

Incidently, can any of you old timers fill me on what happened to get Gene Mauch fired? From '62-'67 he always finished with a winning record and was .500 when he got canned. Hell, I think he's the "winningest" manager in Phillies history. Did it involve Dick Allen somehow?

[foghorn]

Piniella is probably out tarpon fishing now anyway. Is Danny Ozark still alive? Maybe we could bring him back as an interim skipper. Even a dead Gene Mauch could do a better job!:p

Poor Danny Ozark! The 'Wizard of Oze' will always be remembered for not substituting J. Martin for Greg Luzinski in left field in the last inning of the rainy night during the playoffs. Of course, as fate would have it, Greg botched a fly ball, and the Phils lost the playoffs. Once again, no World Series.:bang:
What fans forget, however, is that during Danny's years as skipper, the Phils had a combined record of .533, not bad in baseball parlance.
In '76 and '77, the Phils won 101 games! (holy *****:eek: ). In '78 they 'only' won 90. I say: "Bring back Danny"!:thumbsup:

[ngineer]

I think Mauch passed away last year.

I know, that's why I think he's still 'kickin' dirt':smiley_wi

[foghorn]

I think Mauch passed away last year.

Gene Mauch, although 'revered' by many, holds the dubious record of managing the most years in the Bigs without ever winning a pennant: smh : Would he do any better today than Bowa or uncle Charlie? I doubt it!:nonono2:

[ngineer]

Gene Mauch, although 'revered' by many, holds the dubious record of managing the most years in the Bigs without ever winning a pennant: smh : Would he do any better today than Bowa or uncle Charlie? I doubt it!:nonono2:

Agreed. Let's not forget the infamous "two-man rotation" during the historical choke of all chokes in 1964.

[Ivytalk]

Pat Gillick has made it official: the Phillies are sticking with "Ol' Numb-Nutz" through the end of the year.xcoffeex : smh :

[bluehenbillk]

No big news there, He doesn't wanna tag someone as "interim" & then bring in his guy next season.

[Marcus Garvey]

Pat Gillick has made it official: the Phillies are sticking with "Ol' Numb-Nutz" through the end of the year.xcoffeex : smh :

I can live with that. I've accepted that they're going to finish no better than 78-84, although I doubt they'll do that well.
Last night's game was painful. A great pitching performance wasted, yet again. After 8 innings all I could think was, "11 g0ddamn hits, and only one stinkin' run????"

[Ivytalk]

I can live with that. I've accepted that they're going to finish no better than 78-84, although I doubt they'll do that well.
Last night's game was painful. A great pitching performance wasted, yet again. After 8 innings all I could think was, "11 g0ddamn hits, and only one stinkin' run????"

One lousy run, scored on Lieberthal's infield out. I'll see your 78-84 and "raise" you to 75-87.

[Marcus Garvey]

One lousy run, scored on Lieberthal's infield out. I'll see your 78-84 and "raise" you to 75-87.
Hey, at least they're so much more "relaxed" then when they were playing for Bowa! :rolleyes:

[Ivytalk]

Hey, at least they're so much more "relaxed" then when they were playing for Bowa! :rolleyes:
If Burrell was any more relaxed, he'd be asleep!:p

[bluehenbillk]

Burrell is an irritating player & definitely one of the problems in the clubhouse, he needs to go.

[ngineer]

Another Fiasco--scored 8 runs tonight and still lost....Burrell sat. Dellucci had a couple hits. Hamels got burned on the long ball. They'll be lucky to win 75 games.
I have tickets for the Businessman's Special Thursday afternoon. I'm really debating on whether I should take most the day off and trapes down to the ball park...:(

[Marcus Garvey]

Another Fiasco--scored 8 runs tonight and still lost....Burrell sat. Dellucci had a couple hits. Hamels got burned on the long ball. They'll be lucky to win 75 games.
I have tickets for the Businessman's Special Thursday afternoon. I'm really debating on whether I should take most the day off and trapes down to the ball park...:(

Back in June, they played an afternoon game against the D'Backs on a Wed. I took most of that day off to drive up to Phoenix and see them. Well, they started to suck right after that road trip!

I WANT MY PTO HOURS BACK!!!! Do you hear me Dave Montgomery????? Dammit! I can't believe I wasted time off for those losers!

[ngineer]

Well, I've worked every night in the office this week, so I'm taking my dad to the game tomorrow. He coached high school baseball for about 25 years and just going to the ballpark is relaxing respite from the week. I don't expect any major traffic problems and doubt there will be a high level of excitement, so it will just be a nice relaxing day of playing hooky...:)

[ngineer]

Well, Lidle gave a great performance for he scouts in the stands today. 3-hitter (2 solo hrs in first two innings) and Utley two more hits--27 gamer going now. Hot as hell today with 'no air' moving. Announced crowd of 31,000 but looked about 10000 less to me..

[Go...gate]

I hope Gillick - and the Phils - know what they are doing. They unloaded salary but will ownership use the extra available $$ to get some talent or replenish the farm system?

[Marcus Garvey]

I hope Gillick - and the Phils - know what they are doing. They unloaded salary but will ownership use the extra available $$ to get some talent or replenish the farm system?

I think Gillick knows what he's doing. The question is, will ownership let him do it unfettered? Ever since the Carpenters sold the team, ownership has been the Phillies biggest liability. First Bill Giles, now Dave Montgomery. They need to let their baseball people run things and stay in the background.

[Ivytalk]

The Wilmington News Urinal reports that Pat Gillick announced that Manuel will have his job through the end of his contract in 2007, and Gillick also conceded that the Phils will not be playoff contenders in 2007.:bang: :bang: xidiotx xidiotx

When the Phils' attendance levels sink into the toilet for the rest of this year and next, maybe they'll see reason and give the Dumb Hayseed his walking papers.

[GannonFan]

Yeah, I saw that too and I can't understand it. If you're going to start rebuilding the team don't you want to do it with a guy who'll be there for the whole thing? Manuel's a nice guy and all but he's clearly not a good manager. Leaving him as a lame duck next year is just silly unless you don't feel you can get your guy this offseason. If a good coach is out there for the getting this winter I'd hope Gillick would backtrack from his comments and move Manuel out from the dugout. No problem leaving him in the organization until the end of his contract, but I'd move him in a hearbeat if you found the guy who could be a 5 year coach.

[bluehenbillk]

I give Gillick credit for saying it but the ticket sales department had to cringe when he said that. I wonder how this will affect the off-season managerial search.

[dbackjon]

I really wonder if Gillick means that, or is just saying it (like so many GM's do), and is working behind the scenes to convince Manuel to "retire" with a nice severance package at the end of the year.

[Marcus Garvey]

Charlie Manuel is the 2nd comming of Frank Luchesi.
Keep in mind, I think Charlie ought to be fired, but... I'll play Devil's Advocate for a second:
If the Phils aren't going to be contenders next year, then why not keep Charlie? He's under contract and they'll have to pay him regardless. The only reason to replace him is if someone really good is available, like Jim Leyland maybe!!!!! :eek: Wait, bad example.

[GannonFan]

Charlie Manuel is the 2nd comming of Frank Luchesi.
Keep in mind, I think Charlie ought to be fired, but... I'll play Devil's Advocate for a second:
If the Phils aren't going to be contenders next year, then why not keep Charlie? He's under contract and they'll have to pay him regardless. The only reason to replace him is if someone really good is available, like Jim Leyland maybe!!!!! :eek: Wait, bad example.

Remember when Leyland was practically breaking down the Phillies door to have a shot to manage this team and all he got was a courtesy interview by Wade to appease the fans and WIP - at least you don't need to wonder why Wade isn't here anymore.

[bluehenbillk]

The insanity that was Ed Wade has become even more evident when you look at all these contracts he handed out. How could the Phillies have 5 guys with no-trade clauses?

[GannonFan]

I agree - how did Cormier merit a no-trade clause? Heck, he's been on tons of teams over 14 years but with the Phillies he gets the no-trade bonus. I only hope we're nearing the end of Wade's insidious influence on this team - unbelievable.

[Ivytalk]

Charlie Manuel is the 2nd comming of Frank Luchesi.Keep in mind, I think Charlie ought to be fired, but... I'll play Devil's Advocate for a second:
If the Phils aren't going to be contenders next year, then why not keep Charlie? He's under contract and they'll have to pay him regardless. The only reason to replace him is if someone really good is available, like Jim Leyland maybe!!!!! :eek: Wait, bad example.

Or is it the third coming of Nick Leyva? The reincarnation of Bob Skinner?
The "hickification" of Lee Elia??:confused: :confused: :p

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Another solid outing by the Phils #1

Lieber 4.2IP 13H 9R 9ER 1BB 3SO 3HR

[GannonFan]

I guess any trade that could've been in the works for Leiber is pretty much out the window now, don't you think?

[AppGuy04]

Utley keeps the streak alive

[Ivytalk]

I guess any trade that could've been in the works for Leiber is pretty much out the window now, don't you think?

An absolutely brutal outing for the former Wilmington Blue Rock. He even gave up two RBI hits to the Marlins' pitcher.: smh :

[GannonFan]

An absolutely brutal outing for the former Wilmington Blue Rock. He even gave up two RBI hits to the Marlins' pitcher.: smh :

I think he's still a decent #3 pitcher on a staff (where they came up with this #1 thing I'll never know) but right now he's just pitching gawd awful. It wouldn't shock me if they come up with an injury with him and sit him down for awhile - he's truly brutal right now.

[Ivytalk]

Utley keeps the streak alive

Thank God for small favors!:nod: 32 straight and counting!!:rotateh:

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Thank God for small favors!:nod: 32 straight and counting!!:rotateh:

:hurray: :hurray: The only reason I was even following the game. :nod:

As bad as the Phillies are, I still enjoy rooting for Utley and Howard.

[AppGuy04]

They took Chase out as soon as he got the hit

[blukeys]

I think he's still a decent #3 pitcher on a staff (where they came up with this #1 thing I'll never know) but right now he's just pitching gawd awful. It wouldn't shock me if they come up with an injury with him and sit him down for awhile - he's truly brutal right now.

My guess is that the 2 good Septembers he had was the major part of it. But I agree Lieber as your #1 just demonstrates how bad your starting pitching is.

[GannonFan]

Rumor has it (from CNNSI) that the Phils had a trade finalized - Burrell to the O's for Rodrigo Lopez - and Burrell nixed it with his no trade clause. Damn Ed Wade is still haunting us.

[foghorn]

:hurray: :hurray: The only reason I was even following the game. :nod:

As bad as the Phillies are, I still enjoy rooting for Utley and Howard.

Same here, but I'd add Myers and Hamels to that list. These, and maybe Rollins, are the core of the Phillies' future. Utley reminds me , except for batting left, of Ryne Sandberg. I want Howard to hit 50 this year. He's got awesome power!:hurray:

[AppGuy04]

33 games

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The scary part is the Phils aren't playing bad ball right now, atleast for the horrendous NL. They stand at 50-55 with 2 months left which puts them a .5 game behind a 4 way tie for 3rd in the Wildcard race at 4 back. The Phils are also lucky to be in the worst division in the dreadful NL which will help here down the stretch. I'm not saying this team is going to make it but i think the shake up on the team the influx of young faces could be a positive. I've liked the way they've played the last 2 weeks when they really started to see some of these non'clubhouse guys were increasingly likely to be sent packing.

[AppGuy04]

The scary part is the Phils aren't playing bad ball right now, atleast for the horrendous NL. They stand at 50-55 with 2 months left which puts them a .5 game behind a 4 way tie for 3rd in the Wildcard race at 4 back. The Phils are also lucky to be in the worst division in the dreadful NL which will help here down the stretch. I'm not saying this team is going to make it but i think the shake up on the team the influx of young faces could be a positive. I've liked the way they've played the last 2 weeks when they really started to see some of these non'clubhouse guys were increasingly likely to be sent packing.

I'm sure Abreu wasn't the nicest guy the last few weeks and having him gone probably helps chemistry, and thats something that can not be underestimated

[Ivytalk]

Nice to see Mathieson get his first W last night, and Howard continues to pound the ball. And when was the last time that Rhodes had a 1-2-3 inning?

[bluehenbillk]

4-1 since the Abreu trade!!

[ngineer]

Utley's streak now at 34!! Phils pound Cards second night in a row, 16-8. Talk after the game was that Phils want to sign Dellucci to multi-year deal. I like him alot. Seems to fit in with the 'core'. Gotta get some reliable arms....

[Marcus Garvey]

I had to work late, so I missed most of the game. I got home in time to park my a$$ in front of the TV and see Utley's 1st hit!
You can't score that an error. It was a "mental" error on the part of the pitcher, but that was no throwing error.

[bluehenbillk]

There was no controversy as he got a hit his next time up to. 5-1 now since the Abreu trade. Stereotypical Bobby last night in the Bronx, 2 hits with the bases empty & then he comes up with them loaded & K's.

[Ivytalk]

Utley's streak now at 34!! Phils pound Cards second night in a row, 16-8. Talk after the game was that Phils want to sign Dellucci to multi-year deal. I like him alot. Seems to fit in with the 'core'. Gotta get some reliable arms....

Nice to see them get some runs for Myers for a change. The Phils are "only" 3.5 games out of the wild card lead now. They'll probably tease us again....: smh :

[GannonFan]

Nice to see them get some runs for Myers for a change. The Phils are "only" 3.5 games out of the wild card lead now. They'll probably tease us again....: smh :

Hey, I'm alright being teased with a team like this. With Abreu gone, and with Leiberthal looking a little chastened and now ready to accept a part time role, and with only malcontent Burrell still left, the team suddenly has fewer undesirables that were just tough to root for. Now, you have Utley and Howard leading the team, Dellucci will get an extended look now, as will Victorino, and the pitching can actually look decent on occassion. I like the way Myers looks, Hamels is just raw but he's got a lot of upside, heck, maybe Mathieson might end up being something. We'll see if Wolf can come back - no one's asking him to be a #1 starter, but a quality pitcher at the back of the rotation would help. Leiber just looks lost out there right now so no help there. I don't know, 5-1 since the Abreu trade in a league that other than the Mets and Cards (and the Cards are sleepwalking through the season) has no other good teams of note, the Phils compare pretty well and are actually a little rootable right now.

[89Hen]

Nice to see them get some runs for Myers for a change. The Phils are "only" 3.5 games out of the wild card lead now. They'll probably tease us again....: smh :
Of course. That's their modus operandi. Just when I think it's safe to stop paying attention to the Phils they get on ESPN with Utley's hitting streak and moving up in the WC standings. :bang: Watched the whole damn game last night and I don't even like baseball.

[AppGuy04]

This would be hilarious if the Phils won the wild card

[bluehenbillk]

They should take the "Major League" (the movie) approach & say that no one thinks they can win. I wonder who they have the lifesize figure of in the locker room where they take a piece of clothing away for every win.

[Ivytalk]

They should take the "Major League" (the movie) approach & say that no one thinks they can win. I wonder who they have the lifesize figure of in the locker room where they take a piece of clothing away for every win.

Sam Ryan??:nod: :nod:
Mrs. Dave Montgomery?:confused:
Cecily Tynan?:D :D :p

[ngineer]

I had to work late, so I missed most of the game. I got home in time to park my a$$ in front of the TV and see Utley's 1st hit!
You can't score that an error. It was a "mental" error on the part of the pitcher, but that was no throwing error.

Had he made an overt move to third base or the runner then an FC may have been appropriate, but that didn't happen and was more his momentum that took him in that direction. Plus Chase got a single in the 9th to eliminate any 'controversy'...:nod:

[ngineer]

They should take the "Major League" (the movie) approach & say that no one thinks they can win. I wonder who they have the lifesize figure of in the locker room where they take a piece of clothing away for every win.

Howabout "Jade" --the new babe sportscaster on NBC Channel 10--saw her at Eagles camp and she's got the rack for the poster...:thumbsup:

[AppGuy04]

Naw, it should be Bobby Abreu's wife

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Phils gotta avoid those nosedives they go on, lose 9 out or 10 ect. If they play slightly above .500 ball the rest of the way they have a very good shot at the wildcard. However based on history they'll win 9 out of the next 10 and then procede to lose 12 out of the next 15.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The Phils gotta avoid those nosedives they go on, lose 9 out or 10 ect. If they play slightly above .500 ball the rest of the way they have a very good shot at the wildcard. However based on history they'll win 9 out of the next 10 and then procede to lose 12 out of the next 15.

Exactly right! They are playing good ball right now and have lured suckers like me back into watching (they are winning again tonight). As much as I would like to believe otherwise, I'm sure another disgraceful losing streak in the near future is inevitable...

But Hamels is looking damn good tonight! Why must they tease us like this?

[foghorn]

Exactly right! They are playing good ball right now and have lured suckers like me back into watching (they are winning again tonight). As much as I would like to believe otherwise, I'm sure another disgraceful losing streak in the near future is inevitable..

Hey SonCoast, count me in as a sucker also. Don't know why, but I just love the young guys on this team. Right now, Hamels is blowing the Cardinals away! :hurray: But it ain't over yet; 2 more innings, Phils 4-1.

[blukeys]

Hey SonCoast, count me in as a sucker also. Don't know why, but I just love the young guys on this team. Right now, Hamels is blowing the Cardinals away! :hurray: But it ain't over yet; 2 more innings, Phils 4-1.


Count me in as a sucker but I'm OK with it. Utley and Howard are just fun to watch. Howard's Home runs remind me of Willie Stargell. I like what I've seen of Delucci so far and as far as I'm concerned Lieberthal is the Backup catcher. :thumbsup:

[ngineer]

This is getting unreal. 16 hits tonight. Hamel lights out. Chris Coste has to be on cloud 9. Cincinnati was losing tonight. If that holds, Phils only 2.5 out of wild card..I'm pathetic...hooked for 50 years on these guys...But the new 'core' is exciting. This is now Utley/Rollins/Howard's team. And I agree, Lieberthal is now the backup catcher.:rotateh:

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Huge win tonight!! Here's a very interesting stat, "Philadelphia is the only unbeaten NL team when leading after eight innings, going 46-0". That's pretty impressive but at the same time kind of sad considering they have so few come from behind wins.

[AppGuy04]

It's not 2.5 games out of the wild card

and Utley is at 35 games

This team looks very strong and I'm sure that clubhouse atmosphere now is the reason why, its probably likle playing in high school or college again for these guys

[SunCoastBlueHen]

It's not 2.5 games out of the wild card



The Phils are at 52-55 while Cincy and the D-Backs are both at 55-53. That's 2.5 games by my calculation. :confused:

[AppGuy04]

The Phils are at 52-55 while Cincy and the D-Backs are both at 55-53. That's 2.5 games by my calculation. :confused:

oops, that should be now, not "not"

[SunCoastBlueHen]

oops, that should be now, not "not"

:thumbsup:

[AppGuy04]

brain fart sometimes

btw, as a Braves fan who has all but given up on winning the WC, I'm gonna pull for my fellow NL ast compatriate, the Phils

[GannonFan]

Heard Jeff Brantley on WFAN yesterday on the way home - he actually blamed the fans in Philadelphia for the poor results of the team over the year - says that they keep getting good players in there who all of a sudden don't perform, and that it's the booing that wears them down.

Being a proud Philadelphia fan, I can't refute that enough. Brantley was here at the time when the Phils were so bad that they actually traded away Schilling (the year after getting rid of Rolen) for nothing because they didn't want to keep paying guys. And that's where all the mediocrity comes from - the Phillies management is just simply god-awful. Brantley may have heard boos due to his 5+ ERA and is almost .400 on base % for opposing batters as he tried to hang on at the end of his career. But booing has not caused the Phillies to be in just one post season for the past 22 years. Interesting that he said St. Louis was the ideal place to play because they love you there no matter what. One would think that if that was the case wouldn't St Louis have more than just 1 more WS ring than the Phillies over the same 26 year period? Typical nonsense from people (and people who sucked when they were here) that only know a small bit of information about Philly - urban legends continue apparently.

[GannonFan]

The Phils are now 6-1 without Abreu - who knows, purging the team of Abreu, Bell, and Lidle may have been like getting an albatross off the team's back. Plus Hamels is starting to come into his own - the kid has a ton of potential, no doubt. With him starting to look good and with Myers pitching well, having just one more pitcher start to pick it up would be huge - maybe Wolfie can be that guy (I have no hope for Leiber this year).

[Ivytalk]

Now it's on to Shea for the weekend to see what these guys are really made of!:nod:

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Heard Jeff Brantley on WFAN yesterday on the way home - he actually blamed the fans in Philadelphia for the poor results of the team over the year - says that they keep getting good players in there who all of a sudden don't perform, and that it's the booing that wears them down.

Being a proud Philadelphia fan, I can't refute that enough. Brantley was here at the time when the Phils were so bad that they actually traded away Schilling (the year after getting rid of Rolen) for nothing because they didn't want to keep paying guys. And that's where all the mediocrity comes from - the Phillies management is just simply god-awful. Brantley may have heard boos due to his 5+ ERA and is almost .400 on base % for opposing batters as he tried to hang on at the end of his career. But booing has not caused the Phillies to be in just one post season for the past 22 years. Interesting that he said St. Louis was the ideal place to play because they love you there no matter what. One would think that if that was the case wouldn't St Louis have more than just 1 more WS ring than the Phillies over the same 26 year period? Typical nonsense from people (and people who sucked when they were here) that only know a small bit of information about Philly - urban legends continue apparently.

Blaming the booing on the poor performance of the team may be a bit over the top, but at the same time I never liked the prevailing mentality of the Philly "fans" at professional sporting events. As a kid, my dad would take me to both Phillies and Orioles games and the atmosphere was night and day different. Mike Schmidt, arguably the best 3rd baseman of all time, would come to bat to a chorus of boos even though he may have been leading the NL in HR's and on his way to another gold glove year in the field. 90 miles south down I-95, Cal Ripken would receive a standing ovation every time he came to the plate even if he was hitting .220 at the time. If you were a MLB player, where would you rather play? Hell, I think Greg Luzinski might still be in therapy...

[AppGuy04]

The Phils are now 6-1 without Abreu - who knows, purging the team of Abreu, Bell, and Lidle may have been like getting an albatross off the team's back. Plus Hamels is starting to come into his own - the kid has a ton of potential, no doubt. With him starting to look good and with Myers pitching well, having just one more pitcher start to pick it up would be huge - maybe Wolfie can be that guy (I have no hope for Leiber this year).

Man, having those high priced guys in the clubhouse can be a cancer. I've said this before, but I'll say it again, don't underestimate what chemistry does for a ball club

[GannonFan]

Blaming the booing on the poor performance of the team may be a bit over the top, but at the same time I never liked the prevailing mentality of the Philly "fans" at professional sporting events. As a kid, my dad would take me to both Phillies and Orioles games and the atmosphere was night and day different. Mike Schmidt, arguably the best 3rd baseman of all time, would come to bat to a chorus of boos even though he may have been leading the NL in HR's and on his way to another gold glove year in the field. 90 miles south down I-95, Cal Ripken would receive a standing ovation every time he came to the plate even if he was hitting .220 at the time. If you were a MLB player, where would you rather play? Hell, I think Greg Luzinski might still be in therapy...

See, I think that's a little overstated - Schmidt was never booed like that - of course there's always a smattering of boos, but Schmidt was regularly cheered when he came up. Granted, he was probably booed incessantly during those disaster of playoff years that were '76, '77, and '78 when the Phils tanked in the playoffs, but other than that he was mostly cheered and rightfully so. And Baltimore's myth of always supporting their players is way overstated as well. Camden Yards sees a lot of empty seats anymore not that they don't win as much and there are plenty of boos there - maybe not for Cal, but they do boo much more than their rep says. I posted earlier that I was at Memorial Stadium for a game back in the early 80's and they booed the crap out of Jim Palmer (Hall of Famer btw) after a bad outing - if that happened in Philly it would be added to the lore of being bad fans - since it happened in Baltimore, it's just forgotten as fans don't boo in places other than Philly. Kinda like how the Cleveland Browns fans are great supporters of the team, but people tend to forget about the beer bottle incident when they covered the field in plastic beer bottles after a controversial ending of the game. The Browns' owner says after the game about how proud he was of the support and passion of the fans while if the same thing happened in Philly there would be editorials demanding that Philly forfeit all home games. Myths carry a lot more weight than facts do.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

See, I think that's a little overstated - Schmidt was never booed like that - of course there's always a smattering of boos, but Schmidt was regularly cheered when he came up. Granted, he was probably booed incessantly during those disaster of playoff years that were '76, '77, and '78 when the Phils tanked in the playoffs, but other than that he was mostly cheered and rightfully so. And Baltimore's myth of always supporting their players is way overstated as well. Camden Yards sees a lot of empty seats anymore not that they don't win as much and there are plenty of boos there - maybe not for Cal, but they do boo much more than their rep says. I posted earlier that I was at Memorial Stadium for a game back in the early 80's and they booed the crap out of Jim Palmer (Hall of Famer btw) after a bad outing - if that happened in Philly it would be added to the lore of being bad fans - since it happened in Baltimore, it's just forgotten as fans don't boo in places other than Philly. Kinda like how the Cleveland Browns fans are great supporters of the team, but people tend to forget about the beer bottle incident when they covered the field in plastic beer bottles after a controversial ending of the game. The Browns' owner says after the game about how proud he was of the support and passion of the fans while if the same thing happened in Philly there would be editorials demanding that Philly forfeit all home games. Myths carry a lot more weight than facts do.

As with most "myths", there is at least a modicum of truth to the rep given Philly fans. Given, it has been a few years since I regularly attended Philly and Baltimore sproting events, but my personal experience is that Baltimore fans, both football and baseball, produce a more enjoyable atmosphere to watch a game.

[GannonFan]

As with most "myths", there is at least a modicum of truth to the rep given Philly fans. Given, it has been a few years since I regularly attended Philly and Baltimore sproting events, but my personal experience is that Baltimore fans, both football and baseball, produce a more enjoyable atmosphere to watch a game.

Maybe you just had better seats? ;)

[Marcus Garvey]

Even in New York, the fans of Yankees, Mets, Giants and Jets all boo when their teams perform poorly. A-Rod has been getting booed regularly this season. In any town that cares about it's sports teams, you'll get booing from the hometown fans for lousy play.

Why does Philly seem to have a reputation for booing the home team? Simple: Historically, Philadelphia baseball and football teams suck balls! The Phillies have the most losses of any MLB team in history. The A's were god-awful more often than not for their last 20 years in Philly. The Eagles, historically, have been wretched.

With crappy teams, you'll get a lot of booing.

[foghorn]

Maybe you just had better seats? ;)

GF, I'm sure I'm just as avid a Phillies fan as you, and Mike Schmidt was indeed booed way too often. I remember he had the tag among the Philly faithless, that he couldn't hit in the clutch, and only hit home runs when the game was already decided. He would get cheered after a homer, but God forbid if he had an o-fer. Boos galore!
I distinctly remember when Ripkin was in a 0 for 35 slump. One night in his 1st at bat the O's fans gave him a standing ovation as a sign of true fan support. If that were Mike Schmidt in Philly, somebody would've thrown a handgrenade at him. :nono:
In Baltimore, when a fan passes in front of your seat he says 'excuse me'; in Philly he says ' get the f'ck out of my way'. Not knocking all Phillies' fans or I'd be knocking myself and gentlemen as yourself.
And the Eagles' fans got a horrible rap over the Santa/snowball incident. After all, most of us adults know that was not the real Santa out there, but just some drunk in costume.xcoffeex

[SunCoastBlueHen]

GF, I'm sure I'm just as avid a Phillies fan as you, and Mike Schmidt was indeed booed way to often. I remember he had the tag among the Philly faithless, that he couldn't hit in the clutch, and only hit home runs when the game was already decided. He would get cheered after a homer, but God forbid if he had an o-fer. Boos galore!
I distinctly remember when Ripkin was in a 0 for 35 slump. One night in his 1st at bat the O's fans gave him a standing ovation as a sign of true fan support. If that were Mike Schmidt in Philly, somebody would've thrown a handgrenade at him. :nono:
In Baltimore, when a fan passes in front of your seat he says 'excuse me'; in Philly he says ' get the f'ck out of my way'. Not knocking all Phillies' fans or I'd be knocking myself and gentlemen as yourself.
And the Eagles' fans got a horrible rap over the Santa/snowball incident. After all, most of us adults know that was not the real Santa out there, but just some drunk in costume.xcoffeex

Hey, Foggy! Sounds like you were at the same games I was. ;)

[foghorn]

Hey, Foggy! Sounds like you were at the same games I was. ;)
Mere coincidence! :smiley_wi

[GannonFan]

Truth be told, Cal should've sat down somewhere during that streak - it wasn't all good baseball in all those games. I'd boo him! ;)

Yes, the Santa thing was way overblown - if you're going to put a bad, pathetic looking Santa like that out there, you should boo. I remember being at an Eagles/Broncos Sunday night game at the Vet, and during halftime a "lucky" couple who won a Strawbridges contest got to get married, full bridal party and all, at the 50 yard line. When they were taking their places, they had the camera on the bride as she walked up and, well, she wasn't the slimmest of girls, which brought on a fair amount of comments from the crowd. And during the vows, right before the guy said "I do" there was the loudest pleas of "No, don't do it" from the crowd. At the moment he said "I do", I heard the loudest booing you could possibly imagine.

As for Schmidt, of course he got booed - he had a tough time dealing with the media and he came across poorly a lot of times. But with all those boos, he had a fair amount of cheers as well. I like to say that Philly is the worst place to play when you stink, and the best place to play when you win. Sitting in right field of Game 6 when they beat the Braves and won the pennant in '93 is still to this day my best sporting memory from attending games anywhere (although UD/Wofford was close).

[foghorn]

Any sick bastaard who gets married at a football game deserves to get booed. To be honest, however, I saw a Steelers/ Packers game at Three Rivers, and if I didn't know any better I would've sworn I was at the Vet; same stale beer smell, same rowdy fans, same cookie-cutter stadium.
Saw a Raven's game at their new stadium and did not witness the same in-your-face rowdiness. I really think the Baltimore fans are more contolled from a civility standpoint.
Hey, I'll take BlueHen fans as THE best anywhere! Much different atmosphere than at the pro venue.:thumbsup:

[GannonFan]

Hey, I'll take BlueHen fans as THE best anywhere! Much different atmosphere than at the pro venue.:thumbsup:

I agree, but let's not pretend that there aren't some obnoxious UD fans as well - I had to sit in front of people that were begging for Tubby to retire for years, and this was in the early 90's. Also had quite a few people around me cheer when Riccio went down last year and Carty stepped in for a few plays. UD fans are not completely free from idiotic behavior.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I agree, but let's not pretend that there aren't some obnoxious UD fans as well - I had to sit in front of people that were begging for Tubby to retire for years, and this was in the early 90's. Also had quite a few people around me cheer when Riccio went down last year and Carty stepped in for a few plays. UD fans are not completely free from idiotic behavior.

Well, Newark is only about 30 miles or so from South Philly. Some of that mentality has to bleed over. :D

[foghorn]

I agree, but let's not pretend that there aren't some obnoxious UD fans as well - I had to sit in front of people that were begging for Tubby to retire for years, and this was in the early 90's. Also had quite a few people around me cheer when Riccio went down last year and Carty stepped in for a few plays. UD fans are not completely free from idiotic behavior.

Not pretending there aren't obnoxious UD fans. Hell, I can name a couple who surf these boards. I'm saying overall, I much prefer the 'pomp and pageantry' of the college venue than the jailhouse 'in your face' rowdies at the Eagle's games. :nod:

[GannonFan]

Not pretending there aren't obnoxious UD fans. Hell, I can name a couple who surf these boards. I'm saying overall, I much prefer the 'pomp and pageantry' of the college venue than the jailhouse 'in your face' rowdies at the Eagle's games. :nod:

They are different, no doubt about it. I took my Dad to an Eagles/Skins game in a late November and we drove in late as we weren't going to tailgate. He was particularly amazed at the ragged parking, the drunk, face-painted denizens, and the smoke from countless grills wafting across the road making it difficult to see anything. Needless to say, the tailgating at UD takes on an entirely different aspect.

[bluehenbillk]

Let's just get this on the record, it IS OK to boo at a college football game.

The Phils will keep rolling as long as Utley's streak keeps going.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Just to give some testament to GF's earlier point, Philly fans may boo, but they are passionate! You don't see any 23 page threads about any other professional teams on here! By the way, Phils are up 1-0 in the third. If Wolfie can continue to pitch like his old self, the wildcard may be a real possibility!

Check that 1-1 in the third with Wolf in trouble.

Now 2-1 - F-um the Phillies suck! xlolx

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Alright. Phillies come back to win again! Dellucci and Howard both homer and I'm a fan again (but may hate them again tomorrow)! Utley's streak is done, but a win is a win!

[ngineer]

Mets fans showed lack of class tonight. Sure, they can cheer when the Mets stopped Utley in the 9th, but I think an opposing player with such an accomplishment would have gotten an appreciative hand on the way back to the dug out had that been in Philly, rather than jeers and fingers that I saw tonight. So glad Howard followed with a homer to seal the win!

[Marcus Garvey]

Mets fans showed lack of class tonight. Sure, they can cheer when the Mets stopped Utley in the 9th, but I think an opposing player with such an accomplishment would have gotten an appreciative hand on the way back to the dug out had that been in Philly, rather than jeers and fingers that I saw tonight. So glad Howard followed with a homer to seal the win!

You're being absolutely unreasonable about Mets fans I think. They've NEVER had any class, so any expectations of them showing Utley some appreciation are completely unfounded! :)

Seriously though. When the Mets suck, their fans are silent, suffering an inferiority complex toward Yankee fans. When the Mets are good, they just won't shut the f--- up! Remember the early 80's? You couldn't find an admitted Mets fan outside of the 5 Boroughs. But by '85, and espeicially '86, every a$$hole and his brother had a Mets cap!

[Ivytalk]

You're being absolutely unreasonable about Mets fans I think. They've NEVER had any class, so any expectations of them showing Utley some appreciation are completely unfounded! :)

Seriously though. When the Mets suck, their fans are silent, suffering an inferiority complex toward Yankee fans. When the Mets are good, they just won't shut the f--- up! Remember the early 80's? You couldn't find an admitted Mets fan outside of the 5 Boroughs. But by '85, and espeicially '86, every a$$hole and his brother had a Mets cap!

Comparable to Red Sox fans of today, at least since 2004. Mets fans are always azzholes when they come to Philly, and fistfights are inevitable.

Up yours, New York!:D

[blukeys]

You're being absolutely unreasonable about Mets fans I think. They've NEVER had any class, so any expectations of them showing Utley some appreciation are completely unfounded! :)




Agree completely MG. The next time Mets' fans show some class will be the first.

Utley's accomplishment ending in Boston or Baltimore would have gotten him a standing O. The crude, ignorant, obnoxious, and unsportsmanklike response ot the Met fans was just par for the course. :nod: :nod: :nod:

[Ivytalk]

The Phillies literally fumbled away the last two games of the Mets series. Can't they find a pitcher who can throw to first?:bang: And the offense disappeared as well. On to Atlanta, where they'd better do a pretty good General Sherman impression if they want to stay in the WC race.:cool:

[LacesOut]

I still can't believe they are still in the WC hunt. Dang, the National League STINKS!!!! LOL

[Go...gate]

You're being absolutely unreasonable about Mets fans I think. They've NEVER had any class, so any expectations of them showing Utley some appreciation are completely unfounded! :)

Seriously though. When the Mets suck, their fans are silent, suffering an inferiority complex toward Yankee fans. When the Mets are good, they just won't shut the f--- up! Remember the early 80's? You couldn't find an admitted Mets fan outside of the 5 Boroughs. But by '85, and espeicially '86, every a$$hole and his brother had a Mets cap!

Agreed that Mets fans should have given Utley a little love, but don't say we have no class. Mets fans (I have been one since the beginning) are every bit as loyal as Phillies fans and among the most loyal around. The azzholes who jumped on the bandwagon in the early-mid 80's were long gone by 1991, when the team collapsed again.

[ngineer]

Agreed that Mets fans should have given Utley a little love, but don't say we have no class. Mets fans (I have been one since the beginning) are every bit as loyal as Phillies fans and among the most loyal around. The azzholes who jumped on the bandwagon in the early-mid 80's were long gone by 1991, when the team collapsed again.

No disagreement that the Mets have a loyal following, as there are many around these parts. My 'irk' was the 'dissing' Utley got after his last out to end the streak. Regardless of adversary, he should have been given his due...:nod:

[Ivytalk]

The Phils got off to a good start in Atlanta today with a 9-6 win. Howard now with 39 dingers and 101 RBIs. Myers won with mediocre stuff.:nod:

[LeopardFan04]

A good win tonight...the Reds lost again, so the Phils are miraculously 2 1/2 games out of the wild card spot (although behind 4 teams)...It looks like the Dodgers are going to be the team to catch...but hopefully the Phils will do their part and keep winning...

[ngineer]

Pat Burrell let another on drop in front of him in left field. Looks like Rollins had a few words with him, too. Somebody's got to start giving that guy a kick in the ass and wake him up, since they're not able to move him...:mad:

[LeopardFan04]

Seriously...he also almost lost one in the lights...which would be more excusable if he didn't loaf around the rest of the time...oh well, I guess a win's a win...

[blukeys]

Seriously...he also almost lost one in the lights...which would be more excusable if he didn't loaf around the rest of the time...oh well, I guess a win's a win...


Burell is making Greg Luzinski look like a Gold Glove Left Fielder!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx

[GannonFan]

It's almost like Burrell is begging to be taken out of the lineup (although why he blocked a trade then to Baltimore is beyond me). He had that gaffe last night, and then was his miserable performance on Saturday - it was his call on the ball that dropped between him and Rollins in that big inning the Mets had that won the game, and then when he came up in the ninth with a guy on and him representing the go ahead run he watched two gorgeous pitches right down the middle, watched two balls, and then watched the 3rd strike - never once did the bat move. Clearly this guy is the last of the old guard that has to be purged - that triumverate of Abreu/Bell/Burrell was clearly sucking the morale of this team downward and Burrell's doing his best to pick up the slack now that the others have left.

[Ivytalk]

Pat Burrell let another on drop in front of him in left field. Looks like Rollins had a few words with him, too. Somebody's got to start giving that guy a kick in the ass and wake him up, since they're not able to move him...:mad:

The sad part is that most Phils fans still WANT to like Burrell. Even now, there are more cries of "Let's go, Pat" than boos. But his head isn't in the game. Dugout shots of him are pathetic. He has a perpetual "deer in the headlights" look.

[Marcus Garvey]

It's almost like Burrell is begging to be taken out of the lineup (although why he blocked a trade then to Baltimore is beyond me). He had that gaffe last night, and then was his miserable performance on Saturday - it was his call on the ball that dropped between him and Rollins in that big inning the Mets had that won the game, and then when he came up in the ninth with a guy on and him representing the go ahead run he watched two gorgeous pitches right down the middle, watched two balls, and then watched the 3rd strike - never once did the bat move. Clearly this guy is the last of the old guard that has to be purged - that triumverate of Abreu/Bell/Burrell was clearly sucking the morale of this team downward and Burrell's doing his best to pick up the slack now that the others have left.

He's pulling a "Vince Carter" and mailing it in. I think he blocked the Baltimore trade because their front office is even more f#@$ed up than Philly's. Peter Angelos is the 2nd worst owner in pro sports after the Bidwell family (AZ Cardinals). I think he's hoping for a better trade deal in the off-season.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

He's pulling a "Vince Carter" and mailing it in. I think he blocked the Baltimore trade because their front office is even more f#@$ed up than Philly's. Peter Angelos is the 2nd worst owner in pro sports after the Bidwell family (AZ Cardinals). I think he's hoping for a better trade deal in the off-season.

He better start producing, then. His stock has to be taking a nose-dive.

[Ivytalk]

He better start producing, then. His stock has to be taking a nose-dive.

Never mind the great play to nail Howard at third or Hudson's squeeze bunt. In my view, THE key play in the Phils' 3-1 loss tonight was when Burrell (pinch-hitting) stupidly swung at a 3-0 pitch from Hudson and grounded weakly to second...with a runner in scoring position and 2 out. Slow, rich and stupid is no way to go through life, son! (With apologies to Dean Wormer!)