Why move to I-A?

[AppGuy04]

App and Georgia Southern fans have long been talking about moving up to I-A. My question is why? Why go from being widely considered as a I-AA powerhouse to relative obscurity as a I-A team? Your thoughts?

[Maroons]

Maybe the Western Kentucky fans can help you with this one... doesn't make much sense to me.

I hear there is a "payday" for being part of a bowl conference... But I haven't seen anyone show me the black outside of the BCS conferences.

I hear there is more prestige... But those Sunbelt schools are as unremarkable as they ever were and the only reason I hear about the MAC is from ESPN's Bottom 10.

I hear it is a way to elevate all of the programs, especially basketball... but last year it was the MVC/Gateway schools were the cream of the "mid-major" crop.

I guess I hear a lot of crap but I'm yet to see truth in any of it.

[OL FU]

App and Georgia Southern fans have long been talking about moving up to I-A. My question is why? Why go from being widely considered as a I-AA powerhouse to relative obscurity as a I-A team? Your thoughts?

I think it's because they believe they are a powerhouse in relative obscurity. :nod:

Also, the fans look at what they believe to be "sister" schools (in ASU case ECU, NC State and GSU case, well there probably is not a good Georgia comparison, but I will say UGA) and don't understand why they cannot be at the same level.

I, unlike others, can understand their frustration with the issue. I don't necesarily agree, but I understand.

It is much easier when you support a small private school that understands it will not be Clemson and does not want to be Clemson:eyebrow:

[OL FU]

One other thing. I have never had a problem with fans who want to move to I-A. My opinion is always, if you decide to do it then best of luck.

What I absolutely hate (and have seen from some ASU and GSU fans but not much on this board) is when the fans trash the subclassification and conference they are in now in order to make the move up look better. :nono: That pisses me off:splat: :)

[doneagain]

I think there are several schools that could definitely be successful in a move up to 1A football. Based on success on the field and attendance average, there are a handful of schools that could move up and be competitve and would most likely be attractive candidates to join existing 1A conferences. As a fan of both 1A and 1AA, I see and appreciate the need for the separate classifications. I think the 1AA ranks a far superior in terms of post season play because you have an actual champion crowned on the field and not in the polls.

The schools that come to mind when I think of moving up to 1A from 1AA are Delaware, Montana, Southern, Appy State, GA Southern, Florida A&M, Tennessee St., NC A&T, Jackson St., Youngstown St., SC St., Alabama St., and maybe James Madison.

I think those schools have the fan following to be competitive in 1A. Several schools have made the jump from 1AA football and become successful rather quickly. UConn, Marshall, UCF, USF, UAB and Troy have all shown success on the field early and have been competitive in their respective conferences.

Do not look at the Sun Belt as a failure. They are a young conference and are still growing. Given time they too will be more successful.

Not all 1AA programs should move up. Some should move down to D2. But there are a few that could and maybe should consider making the jump.

[AppGuy04]

I think there are several schools that could definitely be successful in a move up to 1A football. Based on success on the field and attendance average, there are a handful of schools that could move up and be competitve and would most likely be attractive candidates to join existing 1A conferences. As a fan of both 1A and 1AA, I see and appreciate the need for the separate classifications. I think the 1AA ranks a far superior in terms of post season play because you have an actual champion crowned on the field and not in the polls.

The schools that come to mind when I think of moving up to 1A from 1AA are Delaware, Montana, Southern, Appy State, GA Southern, Florida A&M, Tennessee St., NC A&T, Jackson St., Youngstown St., SC St., Alabama St., and maybe James Madison.

I think those schools have the fan following to be competitive in 1A. Several schools have made the jump from 1AA football and become successful rather quickly. UConn, Marshall, UCF, USF, UAB and Troy have all shown success on the field early and have been competitive in their respective conferences.

Do not look at the Sun Belt as a failure. They are a young conference and are still growing. Given time they too will be more successful.

Not all 1AA programs should move up. Some should move down to D2. But there are a few that could and maybe should consider making the jump.

This is my point exactly, success at the I-AA level does not automatically mean success at the next level. As for the Sun Belt, can anyone name more than a couple teams from that conference off the top of their head?:confused:

[Maroons]

I think we have touched on a few of the things that ought to be considered before making this jump. I'll list those below and add a few more:

1) Paid Attendance - The old NCAA standard was a good thing. Programs ought to be able to demonstrate a substantial number of paid supporters.
2) Program Strength - If a school isn't consistently competeing with the best in I-AA, a transition to I-A would entail a long uphill battle.
3) Conference Home - The move should only be made with a deal with a destination conference in place. That security is critical. But the conference affiliation should also make sense with regional rivals.
4) Market Strength - The market in which a school resides should be considered. For instance, is it in a major city or close enough to feed off of the media support?
5) State Support - If public, is the state interested in supporting another I-A program, both in the legislature and with the fans?

Now, some case studies:
Marshall - The I-A move posterchild. Successful I-AA programs look at the Herd and wonder why they can't have the same. Looking at the above criteria, I can't think of one item they didn't have going for them. Huntington was theirs and the state was ready for an intrastate rivalry with WVU. There were also conferences willing to invite. However, how many I-AA programs have the kind of benefits Marshall got to enjoy before the move?
Middle Tennessee State - The Blue Raiders looked like an ideal candidate for the move (except for #3), but since leaving I-A their attendance has actually declined. All they have to look forward to every year is the hope that maybe they'll knock of Vanderbilt. If the Commodores will play them. Is that worth it? I hope they think so because I'm not sure what else they'll have. The SunBelt doesn't offer them any rivals.
UConn - Already an established school in the Big East with a nationwide following thanks to basketball, the Huskies could have moved up long ago. While they aren't exactly a threat for the Big East title, they made the move at the perfect time. With Miami, BC and VT moving out, the conference was primed to add programs. UConn is an exception, however. How many schools will have a national championship caliber baseketball program and a standing invitation to join a BCS conference?

As for your other examples... I haven't followed them. Someone else will have to consider. I'd be interested to hear how people think App State, GSU, Montana, etc. would measure up according to these criteria.

As for the SunBelt... it is celebrating it's 30th year and it is still a tenuous sprawl of schools nationwide. I fail to see the advantage of membership.

[AppGuy04]

1) Paid Attendance - The old NCAA standard was a good thing. Programs ought to be able to demonstrate a substantial number of paid supporters.
2) Program Strength - If a school isn't consistently competeing with the best in I-AA, a transition to I-A would entail a long uphill battle.
3) Conference Home - The move should only be made with a deal with a destination conference in place. That security is critical. But the conference affiliation should also make sense with regional rivals.
4) Market Strength - The market in which a school resides should be considered. For instance, is it in a major city or close enough to feed off of the media support?
5) State Support - If public, is the state interested in supporting another I-A program, both in the legislature and with the fans?

For App:

1)No problem there, ASU was #2 I believe in I-AA attendance last year at over 100% capacity.
2)No problem here, as we field good teams, and are the defending I-AA National Champions
3)The ACC is the closest conference, but won't happen. This really bothers me.
4)Boone is not exactly a major city, but is the only football school for quite a large area.
5)Boone is ASU, so I don't see a problem with the state supporting the transition.

#3 is the only concern in my book. We would have to move to a largely unknown and obscure conference with no rivals whatsoever.

[doneagain]

I am a hardcore college football fan, which is to say that I will watch any game on TV. I have actually attended D1, D2 and a 1AA games all in the same day in the past. It worked out time wise, and due to the fact that I had all 3 divisions nearby where I live.

Having said that, I can name every team in 1A and their conferences, so I am not the typical guy to ask if I can name the teams in the Sun Belt. My wife says I am too obsessesed with college football, so maybe I do need to get a life. I am fortunate enough to own my own small business and have employees run it for me, so I probably have a little more free time than the average person does. What I do in my free time is follow college football.

I am by no means an expert, but based on certain criteria there are teams that I believe could be successful at the next level. I think the most important thing you need to be successful at any level is fan support. The programs I mentioned earlier have that. Maybe some have no desire to move up, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some however, I believe should move up. If I had to pick 2 schools from the list, it would be Delaware and Montana. They would not have to compete with other 1A programs in their state, although there is strong support for their instate 1AA counterparts. Montana is in a location that makes them attractive to a conference such as the MWC or even the WAC. Delaware would be ideal for the MAC or CUSA.

How about this for a new 1A conference:

Appy St.
GA Southern
FAMU
Tenn St
NC A&T
Jackson St
SC St
Alabama St
James Madison

Honestly, that line-up looks more appealing to me than what the Sun Belt conference has.

[OL FU]

The question was why the fans want the move. It is all about perception. The perception maybe wrong but the fans believe they should be competing at a different level.

I have read, from ASU fans, Furman should not be our competition.

Realistic or unrealistic, fans have a tendancy to look at this issue with emotion and not facts.

[dbackjon]

The only school that currently plays I-AA football that I could see making sense to move to I-A is:

Youngstown State - if they got a MAC invite. This really is more predicated on the fact that the MAC is a natural geographic/profile fit for YSU in all sports. In all other sports, YSU competes in the Horizon, which is not a great fit for them.

[OL FU]

I am a hardcore college football fan, which is to say that I will watch any game on TV. I have actually attended D1, D2 and a 1AA games all in the same day in the past. It worked out time wise, and due to the fact that I had all 3 divisions nearby where I live.

Having said that, I can name every team in 1A and their conferences, so I am not the typical guy to ask if I can name the teams in the Sun Belt. My wife says I am too obsessesed with college football, so maybe I do need to get a life. I am fortunate enough to own my own small business and have employees run it for me, so I probably have a little more free time than the average person does. What I do in my free time is follow college football.

I am by no means an expert, but based on certain criteria there are teams that I believe could be successful at the next level. I think the most important thing you need to be successful at any level is fan support. The programs I mentioned earlier have that. Maybe some have no desire to move up, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some however, I believe should move up. If I had to pick 2 schools from the list, it would be Delaware and Montana. They would not have to compete with other 1A programs in their state, although there is strong support for their instate 1AA counterparts. Montana is in a location that makes them attractive to a conference such as the MWC or even the WAC. Delaware would be ideal for the MAC or CUSA.

How about this for a new 1A conference:

Appy St.
GA Southern
FAMU
Tenn St
NC A&T
Jackson St
SC St
Alabama StJames Madison

Honestly, that line-up looks more appealing to me than what the Sun Belt conference has.

I am curious. Aside from attendance why do you think they should move up? Didn't FAMU move up and move back down or is that someone else?

I understand the SWAC teams since they don't participate in the playoffs. But I am why you think the MEAC teams should move up.

[Maroons]

5)Boone is ASU, so I don't see a problem with the state supporting the transition

From what I know of Boone and ASU, everything you say sounds legit. But the state of North Carolina already has 4 I-A football programs. Would it really be feasible for a 5th?

Kentucky already seems saturated with 2 considering the lack of high school talent, major markets and conference opportunities.

[doneagain]

Some schools have obviously made a mistake by making the jump to 1A. The best example of that is Buffalo. Even with MAC affiliation, they have been horrible in football.

The UConn argumant is valid, but has some holes too. Temple is a national basketball program and was in the Big East, a BCS conference. Yet, they were the bottom feeders of the Big East. Temple was in a large media market, Philadelphia, but that is a pro-town.

Looking at WVU, they should not be successful in many rights. They are in a small state with a non-existant recruiting base by most standards. They have no real media market, as Morgantown is a small college town. They have limited funding, and their athletic department gets not state funding, as it is one of the only self-supporting athletic programs in BCS football. Yet, they have strong fan support, averageing over 50,000 fans per game and they have nationally ranked football and basketball programs.

If you have the fan support, you can build a winner.

Keep in mind too that maybe some of those programs that moved up felt they had no other choice. Maybe their goals are different than other schools concerning football. A local D2 school near my home recently started up a football program a couple of years ago. Their theory was that football was a way to generate publicity for the school and thus would help to increase enrollment. Maybe that is the ultimate goal behind some of these schools decisions. I can't say for sure that it is a result of that, but their reasons could be similar in nature.

[Maroons]

YSU makes perfect sense to me. I figure the only reason they aren't in the MAC already is because they don't want to go.

Montana makes sense also.

As for teams in the Southeast, I think you're on to something with starting a new conference if you wanted App State to go I-A. Mine would look something more like this:

GSU
ASU
EKU
MTSU
UT-Chattanooga
JMU
W&MU
Richmond
Furman
JSU
Samford
WCU

It'd be like a new SEC.

As for the HBCU's, I agree they could go I-A... but it just seems like they would excel by going I-A while forming a new HBCU conference. Those are the games that draw the rediculous attendance and fan support.

[AppGuy04]

From what I know of Boone and ASU, everything you say sounds legit. But the state of North Carolina already has 4 I-A football programs. Would it really be feasible for a 5th?

Kentucky already seems saturated with 2 considering the lack of high school talent, major markets and conference opportunities.

Seeing as only 2 of the 4 are state supported schools, it is rather feasible. Both Duke and Wake Forest are private.

[OL FU]

YSU makes perfect sense to me. I figure the only reason they aren't in the MAC already is because they don't want to go.

Montana makes sense also.

As for teams in the Southeast, I think you're on to something with starting a new conference if you wanted App State to go I-A. Mine would look something more like this:

GSU
ASU
EKU
MTSU
UT-Chattanooga
JMU
W&MU
Richmond
Furman
JSU
Samford
WCU

It'd be like a new SEC.

As for the HBCU's, I agree they could go I-A... but it just seems like they would excel by going I-A while forming a new HBCU conference. Those are the games that draw the rediculous attendance and fan support.

Thanks for the props, but unless I-AA (or whatever the new name is) disappears, to mis-quote Bob Dylan " FU ain't goin' nowhere":)

[dbackjon]

Montana would only make sense if they got an invite to the MWC. I don't see the WAC as a step up. Plus, would the state allow Montana to go I-A without MSU?

[doneagain]

Duke, Wake, NC St, UNC and ECU.

I am not saying they ALL should move up. I am saying that those would be candidates that have the support to make such a move. There is no guarantee that any would be successful, nor is there a guaratee that any would fail. Geographically speaking, those schools are within a reasonable distance of each other, as is evidenced by schools from the ACC, CUSA and SEC that play in conferences from those states.

My suggestion of those schools is based off of fan support shown over a period of time. Most of those schools have shown an ability to be competitive. Another important aspect that shouldn't be overlooked is the addition of the 12th game by 1A schools. Schools such as Buffalo are being paid as much as $750,000.00 for a one time appearance. The fees are going to continue to rise as schools compete for those one-and-done types of contracts. Rutgers and WVU were both screwed out of games for the upcoming season by Buffalo which backed out at the last minute to take larger paydays from schools like Auburn with deeper pockets. This is a great opportunity for smaller mid-major schools to make some quick money to help fund their programs or make major improvements to their facilities.

Another thing to consider is when the BCS contracts expire in 2010. The belief is that the Big East will split from its basketball only members and add at least one more school, if not more. Leading candidates are believed to be Memphis, UCF and to a lesser degree ECU. If the BE does take these schools or even just one more, then CUSA will thus have to bring in another school to fill its confernce holes, probably from the MAC or Sun Belt. Louisiana Tech might come back eastward for conference affiliation from its WAC membership, thus creating another huge series of ripples throughout 1A football. If a 1AA school with promise became available as a 1A school by 2010, they may be a prime target for a mid-major conference to take them in.

Yes, the Sun Belt has been around for 30 years, but not in its present football form. You have to look at what the Sun Belt has currently and consider how long those programs have been in 1A football. They will grow, but they need time.

[doneagain]

... from last year, I think you could see that the MWC is the most over-rated of the mid-majors. The WAC actually had a more solid top-half than did the MWC. If it were not for TCU, the MWC would have been a joke last year as no other team had more than 7 wins. However, the WAC has several solid teams. No, they do not have a dominant team like TCU, but overall they are better. Boise State may drop back some now, to play devil's advocate with Dan Hawkins leaving for Colorado, but Fresno State probably could hav beaten TCU last season. Yes TCU beat Oklahoma, but they also lost to SMU, and Oklahoma was a shell of its recent self last season when TCU upset them. They only real positive thing I can say about the MWC over the WAC is that the bottom teams may not be nearly as bad as the last place teams in the WAC... but that only means the overall MWC is mediocre. How anyone can view it as a step up from the WAC is amystery to me. No offense.

[AppGuy04]

AHHHH, forgot about EZU, but still, thats only 3 state supported football schools

[Canyoncat]

Montana would only make sense if they got an invite to the MWC. I don't see the WAC as a step up. Plus, would the state allow Montana to go I-A without MSU?

Montana does deserve a shot at I-A, however at this time I do not think we have the tax base to support such a move. Montana has a total population of under 1 million (899,000 I believe). Both UM's and MSU's athletic budgets are already pretty high, with the added costs of scholarships, new coaches and sports to comply with title 9, I don't think the state can afford it.

[doneagain]

... university if it wanted to move up. Especially because of another school in the state. Schools making moves happen all the time. If a state required one of its schools to move only if all schools could make the move, we would only have one class of schools across the country.

Youngstown should have moved up back when Marshall did. They still had Tressell and he would have made them a top player in the MAC along with Marshall, providing the MAC would have invited them to join along with Marshall.

Last year, the 12-team MAC invited Temple to join its conference, thus giving them 13 full members by 2007. They haven't made any references to inviting anyone else to go to 14, but before UCF and Marshall jumped ship to CUSA, they did have 14 members. So, one can safely assume they would look to get back to 14 members again if the right program came along and became available. Maybe Youngstown would be that ideal program. I honestly can't say that I have heard anything from YSU about a jump though.

[OL FU]

AHHHH, forgot about EZU, but still, thats only 3 state supported football schools

In the case of the BCS, does state support really matter. I think it is like I-AA, school support.

Southern Cal
Notre Dame
Miami.

[AppGuy04]

In the case of the BCS, does state support really matter. I think it is like I-AA, school support.

Southern Cal
Notre Dame
Miami.

If we are talking BCS, then Duke and Wake Forest both are going to have trouble fielding competitive teams b/c of academics

[OL FU]

If we are talking BCS, then Duke and Wake Forest both are going to have trouble fielding competitive teams b/c of academics


If ASU moved to I-A, I don't think Wake would be competition. Wake's problem I would think is student body size. What are they 4000 students. Correct me if I am wrong but they are really the only football program in ASU's general geographic area.

There benefit is being in the ACC which is the biggest difficulty ASU would have moving into I-A. The ACC is the only game around for bigtime I-A which leaves APP out.

[doneagain]

... I would Canyon. I am assuming that you are a Montana fan. If Montana jumped to 1A, there certainly are expense issues. Things like that certainly can't be overlooked. However, with conference affiliation, ideally the MWC, there would be additional outside funding coming in. The MWC recently teamed with Fox Sports I believe, or maybe it was CSTV (which was bought by CBS last year) to create it own TV channel solely covering MWC athletics. With the addition of the 5th BCS bowl this year and the requirements to make a BCS bowl as a mid-major have become easier to create better access to the BCS games, there will be more money flowing into the mid-major conferences. If the 5th BCS bowl would have been in place last season, TCU would have made it to one of the BCS slots, thus giving the MWC a BCS team 2 years in a row. With conference profit sharing from bowl revenues, Montana may not make a profit, but it could offset the expenses brought on by moving to 1A. Another option to consider is tuition waivers for ahtletes by the school. A lot of schools do this for their scholarship athletes to eliminate some of the financial burden from the athletic department. This could ease the transition to title 9 requirements.

[doneagain]

I am not saying any of these programs should expect to make a jump and compete for a national title right away. That wouldn't be logical. However, look at how UCF and Marshall did. They made the jump to a weaker conference initially that they could be competitve with in the MAC. They made themselves as attractive as they could in that situation and when CUSA came looking, they made the jump to that conference. Now, in 2010, both of those schools may be candidates to make another jump to maybe the Big East and BCS affiliation. There is no guarantee, obviously, but there never is in anything in life. Appy State may be better suited to 1AA. Maybe all the schools I mentioned are. However, some schools have a better chance than others at being successful if they made the jump, and that is really all I am trying to say. I just think it would be fun for the fans of not only those schools but for all of college football.

[dbackjon]

... from last year, I think you could see that the MWC is the most over-rated of the mid-majors. The WAC actually had a more solid top-half than did the MWC. If it were not for TCU, the MWC would have been a joke last year as no other team had more than 7 wins. However, the WAC has several solid teams. No, they do not have a dominant team like TCU, but overall they are better. Boise State may drop back some now, to play devil's advocate with Dan Hawkins leaving for Colorado, but Fresno State probably could hav beaten TCU last season. Yes TCU beat Oklahoma, but they also lost to SMU, and Oklahoma was a shell of its recent self last season when TCU upset them. They only real positive thing I can say about the MWC over the WAC is that the bottom teams may not be nearly as bad as the last place teams in the WAC... but that only means the overall MWC is mediocre. How anyone can view it as a step up from the WAC is amystery to me. No offense.

Over the long run, the MWC is much stronger and stable than the WAC. The MWC is composed of primarily flagship/#2 Universities. The WAC has some good teams/markets like Fresno and Nevada, but is also saddled with dogs like San Jose State, Idaho and Louisiana Tech. Even Utah State and New Mexico State are bottom feeders in their respective states. If the MWC invited Fresno, Boise or Nevada, all would jump at the chance.

[AppGuy04]

If ASU moved to I-A, I don't think Wake would be competition. Wake's problem I would think is student body size. What are they 4000 students. Correct me if I am wrong but they are really the only football program in ASU's general geographic area.

There benefit is being in the ACC which is the biggest difficulty ASU would have moving into I-A. The ACC is the only game around for bigtime I-A which leaves APP out.

Exactly, Wake is an hour and 1/2 away, and thats the closest football playing school. Like I said before, there is no way that App joins the ACC right away, which puts them where? Thats why I don't agree with these idiots talking about how we should go I-A, and I think GSU is in the same boat in that regard.

[ucdtim17]

Over the long run, the MWC is much stronger and stable than the WAC. The MWC is composed of primarily flagship/#2 Universities. The WAC has some good teams/markets like Fresno and Nevada, but is also saddled with dogs like San Jose State, Idaho and Louisiana Tech. Even Utah State and New Mexico State are bottom feeders in their respective states. If the MWC invited Fresno, Boise or Nevada, all would jump at the chance.

The MWC is right there behind the BE for that last BCS slot. They add Fresno and Boise and I think they clearly jump ahead. The top of the WAC is good, but the bottom half is downright Sun Belt-esque

[dbackjon]

The MWC is right there behind the BE for that last BCS slot. They add Fresno and Boise and I think they clearly jump ahead. The top of the WAC is good, but the bottom half is downright Sun Belt-esque

Yup - and the bottom half used to be in the Sunbelt xlolx

[*****]

Very soon the choice will not be I-AA or I-A, it will be playoff or bowl.

[doneagain]

Fine. Appy State is small time and could never be successful in 1A football. They would be at best the 6th best team in NC, and that ain't saying much. They suck and are always gonna be small-time. They would fail miserably and should just stay where they are... or better yet, should drop down to D3 so they may really have a shot at competing.

Is that better? Now does that no longer make me an idiot because I bashed your school instead of paying your school a complement?

[doneagain]

MWC
TCU - 11-1
Utah - 7-5
BYU - 6-6
Colorado State - 6-6
New Mexico - 6-5
San Diego State - 5-7
Air Force - 4-7
Wyoming - 4-7
UNLV - 2-9

WAC
Nevada - 9-3
Boise State - 9-4
Fresno State - 8-5
Louisiana Tech - 7-4
Hawaii - 5-7
San Jose State - 3-8
Utah State - 3-8
Idaho - 2-9
New Mexico State - 0-12


The MWC doesn't look superior to me.

[GannonFan]

The MWC is right there behind the BE for that last BCS slot. They add Fresno and Boise and I think they clearly jump ahead. The top of the WAC is good, but the bottom half is downright Sun Belt-esque

I wouldn't be so sure of that - assuming the Big East stays together in its current alignment, the Big East has that trump card of basketball that holds sway over the MWC. The BCS slot is all about money - it always has and always will be. The schools that get to participate belong to conferences that want to keep that money. And that money includes both the football money and the basketball money. The other BCS conferences are not going to turn their backs on a fellow conference just because of the quality of the football side. It's a much bigger issue than the quality of football - IA football is about money, not necessarily about who wins on the field.

[AppGuy04]

Fine. Appy State is small time and could never be successful in 1A football. They would be at best the 6th best team in NC, and that ain't saying much. They suck and are always gonna be small-time. They would fail miserably and should just stay where they are... or better yet, should drop down to D3 so they may really have a shot at competing.

Is that better? Now does that no longer make me an idiot because I bashed your school instead of paying your school a complement?

Who are you talking to, and when Mr. Hyde show up?

[doneagain]

Exactly, Wake is an hour and 1/2 away, and thats the closest football playing school. Like I said before, there is no way that App joins the ACC right away, which puts them where? Thats why I don't agree with these idiots talking about how we should go I-A, and I think GSU is in the same boat in that regard.

This is what I am talking about.

[MACHIAVELLI]

I don't think any IAA school/team has maximized its full potenial in the current position.

[ucdtim17]

MWC
TCU - 11-1
Utah - 7-5
BYU - 6-6
Colorado State - 6-6
New Mexico - 6-5
San Diego State - 5-7
Air Force - 4-7
Wyoming - 4-7
UNLV - 2-9

WAC
Nevada - 9-3
Boise State - 9-4
Fresno State - 8-5
Louisiana Tech - 7-4
Hawaii - 5-7
San Jose State - 3-8
Utah State - 3-8
Idaho - 2-9
New Mexico State - 0-12


The MWC doesn't look superior to me.

There are other factors besides won-loss records. MWC schools have bigger budgets, higher attendance, higher sagarin ratings and better head to head records. The MWC has a winning record against the BE head to head over the past 5 or 10 years or so. I don't have a horse in this race, but over on the MWC board, they make a pretty good argument on why they're on par with the BE.

[catdaddy2402]

he belief is that the Big East will split from its basketball only members and add at least one more school, if not more. Leading candidates are believed to be Memphis, UCF and to a lesser degree ECU. If the BE does take these schools or even just one more, then CUSA will thus have to bring in another school to fill its confernce holes, probably from the MAC or Sun Belt. Louisiana Tech might come back eastward for conference affiliation from its WAC membership, thus creating another huge series of ripples throughout 1A football. If a 1AA school with promise became available as a 1A school by 2010, they may be a prime target for a mid-major conference to take them in.

This is where Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, or another eastern team would have a great opportunity.

It's not a forgone conclusion that CUSA would add La Tech if it lost a school to the Big East football schools. Their lack of a media market, lack of fan support, horrible facilities, and small budget hurt them when TCU left and UTEP was added. It's been reported that they had literally no support from the ADs , and that North Texas was the #2 choice behind UTEP.

CUSA knows that the last thing it's two eastern outpost schools (East Carolina and Marshall) need is another trip to Louisiana or Texas for non-revenue sports....so I look for them to look for a replacement to the east. Who gets in depends on who gets the Big East spot.

If Appalachian State or Georgia Southern were poised to make the jump they'd get serious consideration as either school would help firm up CUSA's eastern division. Both would probably have the support of both ECU and Marshall, and likely UAB as well.

[AppGuy04]

This is what I am talking about.

That is a blanket reference to the App State fan base

Learn not to take things personally

[dbackjon]

MWC
TCU - 11-1
Utah - 7-5
BYU - 6-6
Colorado State - 6-6
New Mexico - 6-5
San Diego State - 5-7
Air Force - 4-7
Wyoming - 4-7
UNLV - 2-9

WAC
Nevada - 9-3
Boise State - 9-4
Fresno State - 8-5
Louisiana Tech - 7-4
Hawaii - 5-7
San Jose State - 3-8
Utah State - 3-8
Idaho - 2-9
New Mexico State - 0-12


The MWC doesn't look superior to me.

You are making two mistakes here. One, your sample size is too small. One year does not make a conference. Remember Utah's season in 2004?? All conferences go through cycles - the MWC's highs are much higher than the WAC could dream about.

Second, you are looking only at won-loss records, without considering the competition. MWC plays a tougher schedule. Look at an unbiased rating system, like Sagarin - The gap between the MWC and the SEC is less than the gap between the MWC and the WAC. The WAC rates closer to the Gateway than to the MWC.

[dbackjon]

Also - not to beat a dead horse here, but average attendance last year:
MWC - 34,605
WAC - 19,975

The WAC has 6 teams under 17,000 average - including 3 teams under 13,000. Heck, Nevada drew better as a I-AA powerhouse.

[doneagain]

UCDTim

Since 2000 there have been 3 games between BE and MWC teams.

I did not include the wins by BC and VPI that were BE members at the time over MWC teams.

In 2000 BYU beat Syracuse
In 2002 Syracuse beat BYU
In 2004 Utah beat Pitt

Now, if you want to include CUSA games between TCU/UL/UC/USF then the records go like this:

SINCE 2000
Current MWC Teams: 10 wins over current BE teams.

Current MWC Teams: 7 Losses over current BE teams.

5 of those wins were by TCU over UL, USF and UC.

4 of those losses were by TCU to UL, UC and USF.

I am not here to attack MWC or support the BE.


dback: Yes I remember 2004, and again, it was the same scenario. Utah and nobody else.

Since 2004, the MWC has a losing record overall and thus a sub-.500 winning percentage. The WAC also has a losing record overall and sub-.500 winning percentage. All 6 of the current BCS conferences, including the BE have winning winning records overall, and over-.500 winning percentages. Those figures are based on teams currently in each respective conference.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/index.php

[doneagain]

I agree that if the MWC were to add Boise St, Fresno, UTEP or Nevada, it would be a pretty solid league

I am not arguing that the WAC has better attendance. I am saying the WAC is a better overall conference than the MWC, based on on-the-field performance.

People want to say you can't judge the MWC based on one season... yet they do exactly that to the Big East. And in reverse, do it as well to the MWC. They take an uncharacteristic 2004 Utah team judge the entire MWC on that one team. Same thing as last year with TCU. Even though the Big East had Louisville that went 11-1 in 2004 and WVU go 11-1 in 2005.

The MWC trumpets how good they are, and they do field some very strong teams... but never in the same year. One year Utah is good and everybody else struggles to get to .500. The next year it might be Colorado State and nobody else. They need to quit having one good team and everybody else around .500 and get a really good flagship program and have 2 or 3 other programs with 7-9 wins each.

There is no questioning the potential of the MWC, but I just don't see how they are that superior to the WAC.

[walliver]

The belief is that the Big East will split from its basketball only members and add at least one more school, if not more. Leading candidates are believed to be Memphis, UCF and to a lesser degree ECU. If the BE does take these schools or even just one more, then CUSA will thus have to bring in another school to fill its confernce holes, probably from the MAC or Sun Belt. Louisiana Tech might come back eastward for conference affiliation from its WAC membership, thus creating another huge series of ripples throughout 1A football. If a 1AA school with promise became available as a 1A school by 2010, they may be a prime target for a mid-major conference to take them in.


This is where Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, or another eastern team would have a great opportunity.

I doubt that Conference USA would pick a transitional school. If ASU, GSU or even CCU (yes CCU, some fans on their board are talking ACC eventually) plan to take the CUSA route, they need to move to I-A soon, and be established in I-A when the opportunity arises. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if ASU and GSU are that desirable to CUSA since neither is in a major market (of course, Greenville NC isn't much to talk about either and they let ECU in).

I doubt any current I-AA school will be playing in the ACC or SEC in my lifetime.

[greenG]

Youngstown should have moved up back when Marshall did. They still had Tressell and he would have made them a top player in the MAC along with Marshall, providing the MAC would have invited them to join along with Marshall.

Last year, the 12-team MAC invited Temple to join its conference, thus giving them 13 full members by 2007. They haven't made any references to inviting anyone else to go to 14, but before UCF and Marshall jumped ship to CUSA, they did have 14 members. So, one can safely assume they would look to get back to 14 members again if the right program came along and became available. Maybe Youngstown would be that ideal program. I honestly can't say that I have heard anything from YSU about a jump though.

The MAC doesn't want YSU. YSU applied a few years ago and was rejected. The Pens bring nothing to the conference. The market in Ohio is blanketed already by 6 MAC members. Adding YSU just splits the market.

Temple is in the MAC for football only. Temple plays other sports in the A-10. There has considerable speculation and expectation that Western Kentucky is moving to D-IA and the MAC. The conference did request an institutional profile and WKU is upgrading their football facilities.

[ucdtim17]

UCDTim

Since 2000 there have been 3 games between BE and MWC teams.

I did not include the wins by BC and VPI that were BE members at the time over MWC teams.

In 2000 BYU beat Syracuse
In 2002 Syracuse beat BYU
In 2004 Utah beat Pitt

Now, if you want to include CUSA games between TCU/UL/UC/USF then the records go like this:

SINCE 2000
Current MWC Teams: 10 wins over current BE teams.

Current MWC Teams: 7 Losses over current BE teams.

5 of those wins were by TCU over UL, USF and UC.

4 of those losses were by TCU to UL, UC and USF.

I am not here to attack MWC or support the BE.


dback: Yes I remember 2004, and again, it was the same scenario. Utah and nobody else.

Since 2004, the MWC has a losing record overall and thus a sub-.500 winning percentage. The WAC also has a losing record overall and sub-.500 winning percentage. All 6 of the current BCS conferences, including the BE have winning winning records overall, and over-.500 winning percentages. Those figures are based on teams currently in each respective conference.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/index.php

As I said, I don't have a horse in this race. I just remember reading some pretty solid, comprehensive arguments over on the MWC board. I thought there were more head to head MWC-BE matchups but perhaps I was wrong. I think in most categories, it's pretty obvious that the MWC is in the same league as the BE and it's hard to make a great argument why the BE deserves a BCS bid and the MWC does not

[greenG]

I hear there is a "payday" for being part of a bowl conference... But I haven't seen anyone show me the black outside of the BCS conferences.

I hear there is more prestige... But those Sunbelt schools are as unremarkable as they ever were and the only reason I hear about the MAC is from ESPN's Bottom 10.

The MAC has 3 bowl tie-ins that generate interest in the conference and $ for the members.

[catdaddy2402]

I doubt that Conference USA would pick a transitional school. If ASU, GSU or even CCU (yes CCU, some fans on their board are talking ACC eventually) plan to take the CUSA route, they need to move to I-A soon, and be established in I-A when the opportunity arises. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if ASU and GSU are that desirable to CUSA since neither is in a major market (of course, Greenville NC isn't much to talk about either and they let ECU in).

I doubt any current I-AA school will be playing in the ACC or SEC in my lifetime.


I doubt they would take Coastal simply because they are so new to football....but honestly what's the difference between ASU/GSU and any of their other options? At least with ASU/GSU they could point at their potential upside as 1-A schools, and the fact that both schools are top tier 1-AA schools....most of their other options have been 1-A for years and have done practically nothing with it. The potential 1-A replacements would be La Tech, North Texas, La-Lafayette, Troy, and MTSU. Not a lot of difference between that list and ASU/GSU.

Marshall and East Carolina would fight to the death to get a southeastern based school in, especially if they are replacing an eastern division team. CUSA was aware of their concerns when they added UTEP.....Toledo was actually the front runner but refused to leave their bus league.

Remember...out of all the choices CUSA had to replace TCU they took a school that is closer to Los Angeles than it is to any other CUSA school over schools that were already within their footprint.

[greenG]

Some schools have obviously made a mistake by making the jump to 1A. The best example of that is Buffalo. Even with MAC affiliation, they have been horrible in football.

The MAC is not a football-only conference. Buffalo joined for all sports and has been successful in basketball, making it to the 2005 MAC champioship game. Football is developing and it's far too early to declare the Bulls move to D-I a failure.

[Maroons]

Alright, with the MAC, already...

Here are my thoughts in a nutshell.

As much trash as I like to talk about the MAC, there are things about the conference that are admirable. If you're going I-A and there's not a seat at the BCS table, I think the MAC demonstrated the way to do it. Collect a bunch of comparable schools in one region and get it together. I think the conference is in an infinitely better situation that the Sun Belt because of the close proximity of all of the teams. It generates a lot more interest to have a Kent State-Toledo game than Middle Tennessee-Denver. Plus, I think the I-A jump has helped raise the profile of the schools and sports in general. They're ahead of comparable I-AA institutions for making the jump early.

My problem with the MAC is that it is essentially a I-AA conference that has committed to I-A. Take the SoCon or BigSky or A10 or Gateway.. make them I-A and you have the MAC. I suppose that's why I'd like to see the MAC in I-AA. I think they fit better.

On a related note, am I the only out there that thinks there are a very limited number of seats at the BCS table? The conferences with 12 teams are stable. The Big 10 is stable. Only the Big East could fold and create new opportunities and in the next 10 years it could stabilize. I don't see the NCAA making a BCS spot for every I-A conference with a prayer.

I'd love to see EKU in the SEC, but it just isn't going to happen. CCU in the ACC? Who's spot are they taking? The I-A Football Title is reserved for an elitist circle of teams that doesn't like to give out invitiations. That's why you can make mine I-AA.

[doneagain]

... and that is where the most densely populated part of the country is located. Facts can be slanted whatever way for whatever conference so things look better in their favor.

Personally, I think since now that there are 5 BCS bowls, the top 10 teams should get invited, regardless of bowl affiliation.

People want to attack the Big East and say it is weak. Okay it may be. I did see the BE conference champ beat the SEC champ this past seson in the Sugar, and I did see Utah beat Pitt (Big East co-champ) the year before. The top team in the MWC is usually a pretty good team. No question. But this idea that the MWC is some power conference is just ridiculous... and I am not saying that YOU specifically are calling it a power conference. The contracts are in place until 2010 for the BCS auto-bids. After that, maybe the MWC will be a BCS conference.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Exactly, Wake is an hour and 1/2 away, and thats the closest football playing school. Like I said before, there is no way that App joins the ACC right away, which puts them where? Thats why I don't agree with these idiots talking about how we should go I-A, and I think GSU is in the same boat in that regard.

As one of these resident "idiots" you speak of: When did it become fashionable to label someone with a differing viewpoint as an Idiot? You do realize you are saying this about some of your guys? Just because I may have researched and have arrived at a different opinion, doesn't make me, nor anyone else that shares my opinion an idiot. We call our own idiots, what do we call others?

[WUTNDITWAA]

Doneagain: Thanks for the kind words about my school.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Oh and one other thing O4: Since you are so gung-ho on your position to the point of calling the rest of us idiots, why pratel, is your signature pic of Richardson rushing at LSU? Should it not be of him against Furman, Georgia Southern or even Lafayette?

[doneagain]

The MAC is not a football-only conference. Buffalo joined for all sports and has been successful in basketball, making it to the 2005 MAC champioship game. Football is developing and it's far too early to declare the Bulls move to D-I a failure.

Not sure where you get that I said Buffalo joined the MAC in football only.

As far as football in Buffalo developing? How long does it take to get your act together? This is the MAC we are talking about. It isn't like Buffalo was asked to beat Auburn, ALabama, Tennessee, Georgia and FLorida every year. They have to beat Kent State, Akron, Ohio U East/West/Central Michigan, etc... Buffalo is THE conference doormat in the MAC. Far too early? At what point to you call it a failure then?

At least in the Sun Belt you have an entire conference trying to build something. ALthough the MAC is fairly weak, it is at least a stable conference with tradition. Buffalo is the WORST program in 1A football period. As far as basketball goes, heck Old Dominion plays BB at the D1 level. Your basketball being okay in the MAC doesn't make you a 1A football school. You don't need a football team to even compete in 1A BB, as my reference to Old Dominion would indicate.

BUFFALO'S RECORD SINCE JOINING 1A FOOTBALL
1999 - 0-11
2000 - 2-9
2001 - 3-8
2002 - 1-11
2003 - 1-11
2004 - 2-9
2005 - 1-10

No, I'd say it is pretty safe to call Buffalo a failure at 1A at this point.

[paytonlives]

I'm kinda on the fence on this one.

But I think most Griz fans that want to move up are tired of being a red headed step child. The ONLY 1A school that has come to Missoula in the last 12 years is Idaho and the spuds lost 4 straight. The likes of Boise, Utah State, Oregon State, Wyoming WOULD NEVER come into Missoula. I think most Griz fans would love to see the Griz play local 1A's BUT THOSE TEAMS DONT WANT A POSSIBLE L to a 1AA.

Because of this the Griz Step WAY UP and play Oregon (top 10 2006) and Iowa (top 20 this year), when they go play 1A

I for one love the Playoff system and hope the Griz are ALWAYS in a division that has a playoff.

I think in the near future the term 1AA will be gone. You will see the top 64 leave 1A for a "Super" Division/ Bowl division and leave all others to be added to the Playoff division. When that happens UofM will be in a great position to "move" to a conference like the WAC. (It has been reported that the WAC will add UM if the Griz want it)

Just my :twocents: from a Texas Griz fan.

[AppGuy04]

Oh and one other thing O4: Since you are so gung-ho on your position to the point of calling the rest of us idiots, why pratel, is your signature pic of Richardson rushing at LSU? Should it not be of him against Furman, Georgia Southern or even Lafayette?

The picture is from the ASU website, wasn't really particularly concerned with the opponent. As for the idiot comment, you guys need to lighten up and not take this crap personally. It's idiotic to me, and thats just personal opinion, to think that we could compete at the same level in I-A as we do now with no real "home" feel to our conference or opponents. Joining some obscure I-A conference whether it be Sun Belt, CUSA, etc gives us no rivals, no names to bring in fans(not that thats a problem). Honestly, I'd rather see a great game with Furman and GSU than some lame game against Middle Tennessee, a team which most fans no nothing about or care about. Let's face it, if the fans aren't hyped for the game, then they aren't gonna come. And do we seriously want to join a conference where the best teams in the league is barely over .500 from year to year, is that who we really want to be?

[GAD]

Going I-A is one thing, going I-A and being competitive well thats something different. Top BCS schools are paying Head Coaches $1 million a year assts. are collecting $250K-$500K a year. Who in I-AA can afford that year in and year out? Cause if you have a successful season some big school with a big budget is coming after your coach.
There NO teams in I-AA that have any business going I-A NONE! but we can name a bunch that should come back down and rejoin our ranks.

[WUTNDITWAA]

The picture is from the ASU website, wasn't really particularly concerned with the opponent. As for the idiot comment, you guys need to lighten up and not take this crap personally. It's idiotic to me, and thats just personal opinion, to think that we could compete at the same level in I-A as we do now with no real "home" feel to our conference or opponents. Joining some obscure I-A conference whether it be Sun Belt, CUSA, etc gives us no rivals, no names to bring in fans(not that thats a problem). Honestly, I'd rather see a great game with Furman and GSU than some lame game against Middle Tennessee, a team which most fans no nothing about or care about. Let's face it, if the fans aren't hyped for the game, then they aren't gonna come. And do we seriously want to join a conference where the best teams in the league is barely over .500 from year to year, is that who we really want to be?

I promised myself I won't get into the A/AA thing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it, but I don't know why half this board is all about trying to figure out which programs should be sent back to I-AA. Let schools figure out what's best for their own wishes.

[blukeys]

Going I-A is one thing, going I-A and being competitive well thats something different. Top BCS schools are paying Head Coaches $1 million a year assts. are collecting $250K-$500K a year. Who in I-AA can afford that year in and year out? Cause if you have a successful season some big school with a big budget is coming after your coach.
There NO teams in I-AA that have any business going I-A NONE! but we can name a bunch that should come back down and rejoin our ranks.

Your first sentence hits the nail on the head. Would Montana and Delaware put 20,000+fannies in the stands if they were .500 or below. Montana's ancient history suggests not. Delaware has no such history. Some folks, who have yet to go to a UD game say they would come if the opponent were Syracuse or WVU. I question their commitment.

If both of these teams could be bowl teams then attendance might rise but that is a huge if.

One thing I have noticed in this discussion is that Appalacian State is in an area with a wealth of I-A teams to whom they are compared unfavorably despite their success. All these teams seem to do well in I-A despite a lack of success (Duke comes to mind)

Locally, Delaware fans have the example of Temple, Rutgers, and Buffalo (all 3 were former opponents) . All 3 programs are losing tons of money and are not drawing the fan support they need to turn it around.

I don't blame teams for looking at I-A. I wish some would not choose to trash I-AA once their decision is made.

[GSUISBACK]

Going I-A is one thing, going I-A and being competitive well thats something different. Top BCS schools are paying Head Coaches $1 million a year assts. are collecting $250K-$500K a year. Who in I-AA can afford that year in and year out? Cause if you have a successful season some big school with a big budget is coming after your coach.
There NO teams in I-AA that have any business going I-A NONE! but we can name a bunch that should come back down and rejoin our ranks.
Your right but in Georgia Southern's case we have nothing left to prove on this level. We are at the point where anything less then title is a failure

[greenG]

Not sure where you get that I said Buffalo joined the MAC in football only.
You didn't. I was just pointing out that football was not the major reason UB joined the MAC. UB moved its programs up from the Mid-Con which doesn't play football.


As far as football in Buffalo developing? How long does it take to get your act together? This is the MAC we are talking about. It isn't like Buffalo was asked to beat Auburn, ALabama, Tennessee, Georgia and FLorida every year. They have to beat Kent State, Akron, Ohio U East/West/Central Michigan, etc... Buffalo is THE conference doormat in the MAC. Far too early? At what point to you call it a failure then?
Not yet, that's for sure. Temple's been in the D-IA football game for decades and doesn't succeed. Kent State is having problems now and they are an established D-IA program. UB founded a D-IA football program just 7 seasons ago. Not long to build a major football program out of a D-II program.


At least in the Sun Belt you have an entire conference trying to build something. ALthough the MAC is fairly weak, it is at least a stable conference with tradition. Buffalo is the WORST program in 1A football period.
Actually, UB isn't even the worst team in the MAC, Kent State is (1-10).


As far as basketball goes, heck Old Dominion plays BB at the D1 level. Your basketball being okay in the MAC doesn't make you a 1A football school. You don't need a football team to even compete in 1A BB, as my reference to Old Dominion would indicate.
There is no 1A basketball.

BUFFALO'S RECORD SINCE JOINING 1A FOOTBALL
1999 - 0-11
2000 - 2-9
2001 - 3-8
2002 - 1-11
2003 - 1-11
2004 - 2-9
2005 - 1-10


No, I'd say it is pretty safe to call Buffalo a failure at 1A at this point.
Your, uninformed, opinion, and you are welcome to it.

[paytonlives]

Your right but in Georgia Southern's case we have nothing left to prove on this level. We are at the point where anything less then title is a failure

The Griz know the feeling.

[*****]

The Griz know the feeling.So both Georgia Southern and Montana are failures? Neither has consistently won titles (no one has). Georgia Southern, what 6 in 20 some years? Griz, what 2 in 20 some years? What is the point if you think you are failures? :D

[henfan]

Texas, UCLA, Ohio State and Michigan have little to prove at the D-I bowl level. Following the logic used by some here, maybe they should just move on the the NFL.:bang:

[spaceraider]

....Middle Tennessee ..... - The Blue Raiders looked like an ideal candidate for the move (except for #3), but since leaving I-A their attendance has actually declined. All they have to look forward to every year is the hope that maybe they'll knock of Vanderbilt. If the Commodores will play them. Is that worth it? I hope they think so because I'm not sure what else they'll have. The SunBelt doesn't offer them any rivals.
...

I always laugh when I read something on a message board from someone that purports to be an expert on another school's athletic programs. Reading your comments is like reading something off Hilltopper Haven. Just laughable. Your statement about attendance at MT is inaccurate. Actually attendance back in the old 1aa era never approached what MT has averaged beginning with the qualifying year of 1998. Attendance is not where we want it but that is partly a factor of Ws and Ls. In 2001, when MT went 8-3, MT had three games that exceeded over 20K. Even in 2005, following three losing seasons, with a head coach under fire, MT attendance was better than those previous three losing seasons. Final season attendance average for 2005 (not from box score estimates) was 15,241 (taken from MT's final season statistics).

With MT hosting Louisville in the Coliseum this year and Virginia (2007 - no return game), Maryland (2008 - two for one deal), Memphis (2009 & 2011), and Georgia Tech (2011 - two for one deal) all coming to Floyd Stadium in Murfreesboro, attendance will not be an issue for MT. I'm not sure why MT's attendance or conference affiliation should be any concern to you or others on this board. MT fans if they were to vote on it, almost unanimously, would never consider going back to 1aa. So if you are trying to justify why your program should stay in 1aa and want to use FACTS, look elsewhere.




As for the SunBelt... it is celebrating it's 30th year and it is still a tenuous sprawl of schools nationwide. I fail to see the advantage of membership.

That's fine...the Sun Belt is not considering EKU for membership.

[henfan]

Fortunately, the NCAA now allows I-A schools to count rap concerts as part of their home football attendance. Schools just have to remember to book names like 50 Cent instead of Big Boi.:smiley_wi

[Maroons]

If my statements are inaccurate, I have your own journalism program to thank. Below are excerpts from MTSU’s student paper, The Sidelines:

Focus Group Discusses Football Attendance Solutions (http://media.www.mtsusidelines.com/media/storage/paper202/news/2005/04/25/Sports/Focus.Group.Discusses.Football.Attendance.Solution s-935698.shtml?sourcedomain=www.mtsusidelines.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com)


Since making the jump to NCAA Division I-A football, MT has struggled with attendance and averaged just more than 13,000 fans per home game this season. The athletic department has been feeling increasing pressure from NCAA officials to meet the required home attendance average of 15,000 fans a game, a requirement that is currently under review by the NCAA Division I Board of Directors.

As recent as Feb. 2006:

SGA Meets with Football Coach (http://www.mtsusidelines.com/media/storage/paper202/news/2006/02/23/News/Sga-Meets.With.Football.Coach-1625314.shtml?norewrite200605231002&sourcedomain=www.mtsusidelines.com)


The meeting occurred on the brink of SGA elections. Two of the main issues facing candidates for SGA's executive seats are how they plan to encourage attendance at football games, and total student body involvement.

Go to http://www.mtsusidelines.com/home/search/ and search I-A football attendance and you’ll see dozens with this same theme.

Oh, and MTSU may not be considering moving back to I-AA, but it gets talked about:Potential Football Drop to I-AA Would Hurt All Sports (http://media.www.mtsusidelines.com/media/storage/paper202/news/2004/11/18/Sports/Potential.Football.Drop.To.IAa.Would.Hurt.All.Spor ts-809002.shtml?sourcedomain=www.mtsusidelines.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com)

Best of all… you said the 2005 season average was 15K? According to sidelines, in your last year of I-AA, average paid attendance of 21,816.

Why Don't They Get It? (http://www.mtsusidelines.com/media/storage/paper202/news/2004/11/10/Sports/Why-Dont.They.Get.It-799521.shtml?norewrite200605230956&sourcedomain=www.mtsusidelines.com)

If you can make it in I-A, more power to you. Those games you have on your schedule and those teams you have coming to Murfreesboro? I’m impressed. But don’t tell me I don’t have my facts straight when I’m checking your paper.

It seems that even a reprieve from getting beat down by Eastern hasn’t lessened your bitterness. And you're crazy if you don't think the Belt would take EKU or WKU in a heartbeat if they were going to jump.

[dbackjon]

Fortunately, the NCAA now allows I-A schools to count rap concerts as part of their home football attendance. Schools just have to remember to book names like 50 Cent instead of Big Boi.:smiley_wi

xlolx xlolx xlolx

[spaceraider]

If my statements are inaccurate, I have your own journalism program to thank. Below are excerpts from MTSU’s student paper, The Sidelines...

big whoop...The Sidelines talks about attendance...I stated that attendance is not where we want it...so why would it be surprising that the Sidelines has had articles about the issue...

My issue is with your claim that MT's attendance during the 1aa days was better than it is now. The attendance from 1998 was MT's qualifying year for 1A which required 17K back then - MT sold over 16K in season tickets for that season. Those folks were not buying tickets or showing up for ovc games in the eighties or nineties. Being a season ticket holder since 1979 Middle Tennessee rarely had home games (outside of homecoming) where attendance exceeded 10,000 for a game as a member of the ovc. Whether rightly or wrongly, there was nothing attractive about the ovc to MT fans. Nope, the fans who bought tickets in '98 were casting their vote for the move to 1A. To try to claim that the 1998 attendance was the usual case for MT in 1aa is false and a deliberate distortion.

As far as eku, roy kidd always had Boots' number, but that was another time and another era. If you're happy in 1aa that's great, but then the fact you are taking shots at programs that left, indicates where the bitterness is.

[Canyoncat]

... university if it wanted to move up. Especially because of another school in the state. Schools making moves happen all the time. If a state required one of its schools to move only if all schools could make the move, we would only have one class of schools across the country.

Youngstown should have moved up back when Marshall did. They still had Tressell and he would have made them a top player in the MAC along with Marshall, providing the MAC would have invited them to join along with Marshall.

Last year, the 12-team MAC invited Temple to join its conference, thus giving them 13 full members by 2007. They haven't made any references to inviting anyone else to go to 14, but before UCF and Marshall jumped ship to CUSA, they did have 14 members. So, one can safely assume they would look to get back to 14 members again if the right program came along and became available. Maybe Youngstown would be that ideal program. I honestly can't say that I have heard anything from YSU about a jump though.

I will be very surprised if the state of Montana will allow the Griz to move up to I-A. A lot will have to happen to make it possible. With our small tax base this state is currently supporting 2 I-AA football schools and 3 NAIA football schools and a Div II school that doesn't play football. Either some of these schools would have to close or drop football or become JC's and that won't happen. Our population will have to increase and new industry will have to come in and increase the tax base. If the state allows the Griz to move up it will take way too much money away from other schools in the state. I don't think that will happen. At least not for another 10 years or so. They'll go, but not just yet.

Then again this is government and when was the last time government did something fiscally responsible!

GO CATS!!!

[dbackjon]

big whoop...The Sidelines talks about attendance...I stated that attendance is not where we want it...so why would it be surprising that the Sidelines has had articles about the issue...

My issue is with your claim that MT's attendance during the 1aa days was better than it is now. The attendance from 1998 was MT's qualifying year for 1A which required 17K back then - MT sold over 16K in season tickets for that season. Those folks were not buying tickets or showing up for ovc games in the eighties or nineties. Being a season ticket holder since 1979 Middle Tennessee rarely had home games (outside of homecoming) where attendance exceeded 10,000 for a game as a member of the ovc. Whether rightly or wrongly, there was nothing attractive about the ovc to MT fans. Nope, the fans who bought tickets in '98 were casting their vote for the move to 1A. To try to claim that the 1998 attendance was the usual case for MT in 1aa is false and a deliberate distortion.

As far as eku, roy kidd always had Boots' number, but that was another time and another era. If you're happy in 1aa that's great, but then the fact you are taking shots at programs that left, indicates where the bitterness is.

The OVC at least had matchups that excited MTSU fans - local teams like TTU, TSU, Murray St etc. No one gets excited over ULM, ULL, FAU, FIU, Troy State or Arkansas St.

[ErkPeterson]

So both Georgia Southern and Montana are failures? Neither has consistently won titles (no one has). Georgia Southern, what 6 in 20 some years? Griz, what 2 in 20 some years? What is the point if you think you are failures? :D

We are if we don''t move up...

[galojay]

The only school that currently plays I-AA football that I could see making sense to move to I-A is:

Youngstown State - if they got a MAC invite. This really is more predicated on the fact that the MAC is a natural geographic/profile fit for YSU in all sports. In all other sports, YSU competes in the Horizon, which is not a great fit for them.

I disagree. Why would the MAC add ANOTHER Ohio School? They gain no marketshare, just spread their fans even thinner. Conferences add teams now for footprint and marketshare. They don't need YSU.

MAC already has Toledo, Akron, Kent State, Bowling Green, and Miami OH.

[dbackjon]

I disagree. Why would the MAC add ANOTHER Ohio School? They gain no marketshare, just spread their fans even thinner. Conferences add teams now for footprint and marketshare. They don't need YSU.

MAC already has Toledo, Akron, Kent State, Bowling Green, and Miami OH.

I didn't say it would be best for the MAC - but would be the best fit for YSU.

[ucdtim17]

I disagree. Why would the MAC add ANOTHER Ohio School? They gain no marketshare, just spread their fans even thinner. Conferences add teams now for footprint and marketshare. They don't need YSU.

MAC already has Toledo, Akron, Kent State, Bowling Green, and Miami OH.

and Ohio - 6 schools

[Maroons]

I disagree. Why would the MAC add ANOTHER Ohio School? They gain no marketshare, just spread their fans even thinner. Conferences add teams now for footprint and marketshare. They don't need YSU.

MAC already has Toledo, Akron, Kent State, Bowling Green, and Miami OH

That makes sense from a commisioner's point of view. But isn't there value in the regional rivalries? Are media contracts worth more than that? You'd think alumni of these schools would enjoy playing YSU since they likely know people that went there.

Also, I would hope the other Ohio state schools (OU, BGSU, KSU) would be willing to help make a place for Youngstown as they're all funded by the same tax payers and it would seem to benefit the state.

[GSUISBACK]

Texas, UCLA, Ohio State and Michigan have little to prove at the D-I bowl level. Following the logic used by some here, maybe they should just move on the the NFL.:bang:
Um they are at the highest level already GSU currently is not. That is the logic NDSU,SDSU, UCA and others used to move up I dont see people hear banging their heads on walls now that those schools moved to a Higher level. Gee I wonder why those schools made the move to Iaa? By the way combined Texas, UCLA, Ohio State and Michigan have fewer "championships" in the past 20 years then GSU maybe when they do that they can think NFL.

[Cap'n Cat]

Moderator:

Son,
I had a post here yesterday. If you didn't like the humor of the graphic, cut it out, don't delete the entire post.

: smh :

[henfan]

By the way combined Texas, UCLA, Ohio State and Michigan have fewer "championships" in the past 20 years then GSU maybe when they do that they can think NFL.

Why pick a select period in time? Let's look at total or recent history. How many trophies has GSU collected in the last 5 or 100 years compared with UT, USC [sic], Ohio State or Michigan combined? Those FB programs are far closer to NFL franchises competitively and financially than GSU is to them... unfortunately.

Someday GSU may find themselves in the SEC and then matriculate on the the AFC South. In the meantime, they have a lot of work to do just to get back to the top of the I-AA hill.

[*****]

We are if we don''t move up...Move and win zero titles is not a move up.

[RabidRabbit]

Um they are at the highest level already GSU currently is not. That is the logic NDSU,SDSU, UCA and others used to move up I dont see people hear banging their heads on walls now that those schools moved to a Higher level. Gee I wonder why those schools made the move to Iaa? By the way combined Texas, UCLA, Ohio State and Michigan have fewer "championships" in the past 20 years then GSU maybe when they do that they can think NFL.

xlolx xlolx Haven't been over to UND's SiouxSports.com, or U So Dak's. Lot's of people :bang: about NDSU/SDSU's move and successes xlolx xlolx

[BusinessEagle]

Um they are at the highest level already GSU currently is not. That is the logic NDSU,SDSU, UCA and others used to move up I dont see people hear banging their heads on walls now that those schools moved to a Higher level. Gee I wonder why those schools made the move to Iaa? By the way combined Texas, UCLA, Ohio State and Michigan have fewer "championships" in the past 20 years then GSU maybe when they do that they can think NFL.

General Rule on here- Any school that moves to I-AA is great! Any I-AA school that moves to I-A is stupid and will forever be a bottom-feeder of I-A. Misery loves company.

[*****]

General Rule on here- Any school that moves to I-AA is great! Any I-AA school that moves to I-A is stupid and will forever be a bottom-feeder of I-A. Misery loves company.Uh, no. Rule: Any school that moves to Division I and plays playoff football can win an NCAA championship. Any school that moves from playoff football to bowls can't.

[paytonlives]

So both Georgia Southern and Montana are failures? Neither has consistently won titles (no one has). Georgia Southern, what 6 in 20 some years? Griz, what 2 in 20 some years? What is the point if you think you are failures? :D


You should know this ralph. The Griz have won it 2 in 11 years and have been in the championship game 5 out of 11.

My point is that I remember the cold miserable days at Dornblazer. My dad use to get so mad because I didn't know the score of the game, I was too busy playing Nerf football behind the bleachers. THAT ERA SUCKED.

Now the Griz are at a point where Winning the conference (or tying) is irrelevant to going to the playoffs and winning the NC. 13 years in a row of playoffs do that.

Ralph- what are the odds that ANY team would make the final 16 for 13 years?

Answer- About 50,000 to one??? Id say that's pretty dominant. As I posted earlier, I love the playoff system, but I'm tired of seeing the Griz playing the Idaho States & NAU's of the world.

The Griz rivalries of Boise, Idaho & Reno are far superior to anything that exists now at UM.

[ButlerGSU]

I use to be one of the biggest supporters of GSU moving to I-A but after careful study and having heard BVG speak a few times I don't believe a move would be wise in the near future. We still need to increase booster membership, build even better facilities, etc.

One day we may in fact see Georgia Southern play in the SEC or the ACC but not in the next 10 years. ASU may move up but their program will struggle just like MTSU's. I hope to never see GSU hold a concert after a game just to bring in "fans."

[GAD]

I use to be one of the biggest supporters of GSU moving to I-A but after careful study and having heard BVG speak a few times I don't believe a move would be wise in the near future. We still need to increase booster membership, build even better facilities, etc.

One day we may in fact see Georgia Southern play in the SEC or the ACC but not in the next 10 years. ASU may move up but their program will struggle just like MTSU's. I hope to never see GSU hold a concert after a game just to bring in "fans."
My point exactly, if you are going into one of the big six confs. yeah go ahead go I-A but if your going to be playing the Akrons, Tulsas, UL-Laff,or Arkansas States of the world why not stay I-AA top teams in I-AA will play you home and home. Schools from the big six will not.

[SoCon48]

General Rule on here- Any school that moves to I-AA is great! Any I-AA school that moves to I-A is stupid and will forever be a bottom-feeder of I-A. Misery loves company.

I've noticed that myself over the past few years.

[Mr. Tiger]

I believe any Division I-AA school with an opportunity to join a BCS conference should take that opportunity. The real question is if joining a non-BCS conference is worth it. I think it depends on the conference. I respect Conference USA, the Mountain West, and the WAC. The MAC and Sun Belt have serious attendance problems and few bowl tie-ins so why join those two conferences if you are a Division I-AA power. I would rather finish first in any Division I-AA conference and go to the playoffs than to finish second in the Sun Belt or third in the MAC and not have the opportunity to go to a bowl game. And I doubt that the Sun Belt will improve because as soon as any of their teams grow they will leave the Sun Belt for the WAC or Conference USA.

[henfan]

General Rule on here- Any school that moves to I-AA is great! Any I-AA school that moves to I-A is stupid and will forever be a bottom-feeder of I-A. Misery loves company.

Well, UConn would have been foolish not to reclassify, given the deal offered to them by the Big East and the stadium proposal funded by the State. Boise's move seems to be working fine for them, though they have no shot at winning a championship. Marshall's had mixed success, as have a few others. The majority of the rest who have reclassified may have been better served in I-AA. But, hey, that was their decision and they have to live with it and their fans deal with the consequences.

It's highly unlikely GSU will reclassify anytime in the forseeable future. If they ever decide to move on, I'd wish 'em well. Believe it or not, the rest of us will do quite well without 'em, though we'd miss your contributions to our message board.

BTW, no misery here. I-AA's still fine with me and 23K of my friends. Sorry you consider Eagles I-AA football so insufferable.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

In case you hadn't heard, there's a new NCAA rule:

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9459096/1

Although the article is about basketball, the effects on I-AA football will be atrocious. Just another way to create more spearation between I-A and I-AA, which in turn is designed to make I-AA less competitive with I-A.

A horrible rule and I hope that they retract it ASAP.

But as this thread goes, just another reason for your school to be in I-A!

[WMTribe90]

Not to hijack this thread, but this is a good rule. Student athletes that graduate in four years should not be penalized. If their undergrad school doesn't have the masters program they wish to pursue, they should be allowed to transfer to one that does. The alternative is staying at their undergrad school for a fifth year and taking "meaningless" classes to stay eligible to play, taking an extra year to earn a masters degree, and paying for two years instead of just one. A player that works hard to graduate in four years should be allowed to maximize his eligibilty to get the most free education possible using his/her athletic ability. At any rate most athletes in revenue sports don't graduate in four years. the majority that do will likely choose to remain at the original school. Those that wish to choose a graduate degree should be allowed to do so at the school of their choice.

We should be worried about all the players that don't graduate at all, instead of hamstringing the ones that graduate in four.

[WCUFLALUM]

It is interesting to read the differing opinions about moving up or not. I am the first to say, I would love to one day see WCU playing with the big boys in the SEC but, is that really gonna happen....no. We have to become a REAL power in the SoCon first and I would be happy. I think most people would love for their school to go D1 for the exposure and the prestige. If App St. ever left the SoCon to go D1 and play in the Sun Belt it would be sad. I would hate to lose the rivalry, even though we usually come up short.
I live in South Florida and it is interesting to see a school like Florida Atlantic which has only been playing for a few years break their backs the past few years to move up to D1. Howard Schnellenbeger (?) has believed in scheduling the toughest teams he can and they regularly get drilled. I think they will be full members of the SunBelt this year, wow! They actually went pretty deep in the 1-AA playoffs a couple of years ago. I thought that was better than playing the likes of North Texas and UL-Monroe.xidiotx

[JohnStOnge]

It's ego. I spent a number of years looking at finances and to me it's clear that the odds are that finances will suffer if a program moves from I-AA to I-A.

But I think there's a real tendency for people to want to believe their part of the word of the LSUs, USCs, and Ohio States.

Of course they're not. But that's the fantasy.

[StillJonesing]

I'm not sure if ASU and GSU are that desirable to CUSA since neither is in a major market (of course, Greenville NC isn't much to talk about either and they let ECU in).

First off markets are overated. You can be in a top 20 market but if you get 6th page coverage or no interest you are worse off than being in a mediocre market (Greenville is about 100th out of 200). Fact is ECU dominates the market they are in and is the #1 story on every news cast and front page on every paper. Also the imaginary lines for markets are very questionable. One city 23 miles from Greenville is included in the Raleigh market 75 miles away. BS

Also something you don't take into account is ECU is heavily covered in the Raleigh market (29th largest) more than a team like UCF or Rice are in there cities. ESPN didn't care about the size of when they inked ECU to an individual TV deal and paid $2 million a year in the mid 90's and televised 4 games a year, or when ECU was a part of two of the highest watched ESPN college football games ever.

ECU has a 100k watt FM flagship station that is part of a 30 station radio network stretching from Virginia to Myrtle beach SC to the mountains of NC. Football and Basketball games are also televised locally on the NBC affiliate that even pre-empt Notre Dame. For instance the SMU-ECU game was shown over the USC-Notre Dame game. You could in New York but if you do not have the ability to pull any thing in it, the market is meaningless.

[*****]

... ECU was a part of two of the higest watch ESPN college football games ever. ECU has a 100k watt FM flagship station that is part of a 30 station radio network stretching from Virginia to Myrle beach SC to the mountains of NC...Is ECU ever called EASY YOU? I know that an ECU doesn't play at the highest NCAA championship level which explains why they are tops in some weird place called "Myrle beach." I wonder if they ever thought of naming that place Myrtle Beach and playing Big South power Coastal Carolina?

[rufus]

I understand the various opinions on the I-A/I-AA thing, but I've never understood the need to bash programs that have decided to play I-A. If those schools have decided that I-A is the best place for them, than it probably is. That's really their decsion. And despite harsh criticism from I-AA fans, I don't see too many ULM or Idaho fans pining away for a return to the I-AA days.

A school has to do what its administration and alumni/student community believe is in its best interests. I'm not going to criticize MTSU for moving to I-A any more than I would criticize Birmingham Southern for dropping to DIII. It's their choice.

[bluehenbillk]

I didn't read through this whole thread but IMO if you're not moving up into a BCS league I don't think it's worth it. Playing to get in the GMAC Bowl or a lot of the "crap 1-A" bowls isn't worth it. Plus if you're not in one of those leagues you're probably looking at 5 or less home games per year.

[hapapp]

I think schools look to move up for a variety of reasons. No doubt ego is involved as is perception and recognition. I have mixed emotions about any move in large measure because I don't know where we would go conference-wise that makes sense.

I know a lot ASU folks remember the days of playing ECU, Wake Forest, and South Carolina all in the same year. Many would like to return to those days of playing those kinds of teams on a regular basis again. I think some of the motivation is generated by concerns about the future of the SoCon and what teams might be admitted in the future.

[StillJonesing]

Is ECU ever called EASY YOU? I know that an ECU doesn't play at the highest NCAA championship level which explains why they are tops in some weird place called "Myrle beach." I wonder if they ever thought of naming that place Myrtle Beach and playing Big South power Coastal Carolina?

As far as ECU playing Coastal Carolina or any D1aa. There isn't any room for CC, and ECU probably wouldn't schedule them if there were. ECU has only played 2 D1aa's in the last 10 years and those were both because they got backed out on.

Future ECU OOC schedules.

2006
VIRGINIA (home game)
WEST VIRGINIA (home game)
at Navy
at N.C. State

2007
NORTH CAROLINA (home game)
N.C. STATE (home game)
#VIRGINIA TECH (in Charlotte)
at West Virginia

2008
WEST VIRGINIA (home game)
TBA
at Virginia
at Virginia Tech

2009
VIRGINIA TECH (home game)
at N.C. State
at North Carolina
at West Virginia

2010
NAVY (home game)
N.C. STATE (home game)
at North Carolina
at Virginia Tech

2011
VIRGINIA TECH (home game)
NORTH CAROLINA (home game)
at Navy
TBA

2012
NAVY (home game)
TBA
at Virginia Tech
TBA

2013
VIRGINIA TECH (home game)
TBA
at N.C State
TBA

http://www.bonesville.net/Articles/OtherArticles/Bonesville/Bonesville_Football/Schedules/Future/Future.htm

ECU obviously has the schedule to compete at the highest level in the NCAA in the future (9 game series with Virginia Tech 9 straight years 4 home 4 away one neutral, there are some games in 2014-2015 lined up as well) ECU has had teams like Floridia State, Miami, Syracuse, S. Carolina etc in Greenville in the past.

....AND ECU HAS competed at the highest level in years past,

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/Top201011.jpg

no reason to think it can't happen in the future.

[SoCon48]

Is ECU ever called EASY YOU? I know that an ECU doesn't play at the highest NCAA championship level which explains why they are tops in some weird place called "Myrle beach." I wonder if they ever thought of naming that place Myrtle Beach and playing Big South power Coastal Carolina?
Big South and power don't belong in the same sentence.

[SoCon48]

I use to be one of the biggest supporters of GSU moving to I-A but after careful study and having heard BVG speak a few times ."

Hmm. I can understand that. BVG has a good job with good pay. He's smart enough to notice what happens to the coach when a team first moves up a level.

[StillJonesing]

I didn't read through this whole thread but IMO if you're not moving up into a BCS league I don't think it's worth it. Playing to get in the GMAC Bowl or a lot of the "crap 1-A" bowls isn't worth it. Plus if you're not in one of those leagues you're probably looking at 5 or less home games per year.

What is wrong with the GMAC Bowl? They just moved it to January 7th. It has featured many strong nationally ranked teams in the past. Normally the CUSA #2 and the MAC or WAC champ so you are getting some quality teams.

1999 #19 East Carolina (9-2) vs TCU (7-4)
2000 #13 TCU (10-1) vs Southern Miss (7-4)
2001 #22 Marshall (10-2) vs East Carolina (6-5)
2002 #19 Marshall (10-2) vs Louisville (7-5)
2003 #10 Miami (Ohio) (12-1) vs Louisville (9-3)
2004 Bowling Green (8-3) vs Memphis (8-3)
2005 Toledo (8-3) vs UTEP (8-3)

Featuring players great players like Ladaliam Tomlinson, Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich, David Garrard, Deangelo Williams.

They also sale out every year over 40k. The D1aa national championship game since Marshall hosted it has only drawn 20k or less many years in that period in is played in mid December. You would rather play in that? Let me know when it pays $750k-$1 million dollars.

[WUTNDITWAA]

I understand the various opinions on the I-A/I-AA thing, but I've never understood the need to bash programs that have decided to play I-A. If those schools have decided that I-A is the best place for them, than it probably is. That's really their decsion. And despite harsh criticism from I-AA fans, I don't see too many ULM or Idaho fans pining away for a return to the I-AA days.

A school has to do what its administration and alumni/student community believe is in its best interests. I'm not going to criticize MTSU for moving to I-A any more than I would criticize Birmingham Southern for dropping to DIII. It's their choice.


You have one vote for post of the year.:hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[GannonFan]

What is wrong with the GMAC Bowl? They just moved it to January 7th. It has featured many strong nationally ranked teams in the past. Normally the CUSA #2 and the MAC or WAC champ so you are getting some quality teams.

1999 #19 East Carolina (9-2) vs TCU (7-4)
2000 #13 TCU (10-1) vs Southern Miss (7-4)
2001 #22 Marshall (10-2) vs East Carolina (6-5)
2002 #19 Marshall (10-2) vs Louisville (7-5)
2003 #10 Miami (Ohio) (12-1) vs Louisville (9-3)
2004 Bowling Green (8-3) vs Memphis (8-3)
2005 Toledo (8-3) vs UTEP (8-3)

Featuring players great players like Ladaliam Tomlinson, Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich, David Garrard, Deangelo Williams.

They also sale out every year over 40k. The D1aa national championship game since Marshall hosted it has only drawn 20k or less many years in that period in is played in mid December. You would rather play in that? Let me know when it pays $750k-$1 million dollars.

Yeah, I would rather play in the DIAA national title - a bowl's a bowl, and for those who like them, more power to ya. But I'd rather play for a title than for a bowl game that amounts to basically an exhibition game since the real title game for that level is being played by teams that participants in the GMAC bowl can only hope to join later. Basically, if you're playing in the GMAC bowl, you are effectively barred as a school from playing for a national title because you aren't a BCS school. I could care less what the school makes off of the bowl game in terms of money - I don't get a share of that so how does that impact my joy of watching the game?

And now that they've moved the game to January 7th I have to wonder who will care about this game other than those in attendance - January 7th is the Sunday of Wild Card weekend in the NFL and it's days after the BCS has crowned their national champion. Meaningless game just doesn't say enough about this bowl this year.

[GannonFan]

I understand the various opinions on the I-A/I-AA thing, but I've never understood the need to bash programs that have decided to play I-A. If those schools have decided that I-A is the best place for them, than it probably is. That's really their decsion. And despite harsh criticism from I-AA fans, I don't see too many ULM or Idaho fans pining away for a return to the I-AA days.

A school has to do what its administration and alumni/student community believe is in its best interests. I'm not going to criticize MTSU for moving to I-A any more than I would criticize Birmingham Southern for dropping to DIII. It's their choice.

Because it's a message board and people are entitled to say whatever they please within reason. And when do you even see or hear ULM or Idaho fans anyway? Are there such fans? : smh : Some people like to rip schools that unsuccessfully move up, where's the harm in that? Like I said, it's a message board and there will always be opinions contrary to your own - different strokes for different folks.

[AppGuy04]

It's gonna be very hard for a team like ECU to return to national prowess. The landscape of college football is completeyl different than years past, and to be honest, ECU just doesn't have the draw that they used to. Also, CUSA will be changing constantly IMO so that doesn't help.

[*****]

... The D1aa national championship game since Marshall hosted it has only drawn 20k or less many years in that period in is played in mid December. You would rather play in that? Let me know when it pays $750k-$1 million dollars.Let me know when the NCAA awards a championship to I-A teams. Yes, playing for the championship is always better. It amazes me when I-A fans feel the need to put down I-AA on a I-AA discussion board. Doesn't ECU have a board?

[WUTNDITWAA]

It amazes me when I-A fans feel the need to put down I-AA on a I-AA discussion board. Doesn't ECU have a board?

We may disagree on a lot, but I'm with you on this.:cool:

And it's not like ECU was ever I-AA. I can see a Marshall fan coming around from time to time to say hi, but it's not like ECU has ever had a tie to this place. Gheesh.xidiotx

[rufus]

You have to understand that this guy StillJonesing is nothing but a flamer. You should see his work on the UNCW and JMU boards over on the CAAZone.

[StillJonesing]

Yeah, I would rather play in the DIAA national title - a bowl's a bowl, and for those who like them, more power to ya. But I'd rather play for a title than for a bowl game that amounts to basically an exhibition game

The D1aa "national" title game amounts to playing a tournament (in which the best team doesn't always win) for the title of #120th best team in College football.



Basically, if you're playing in the GMAC bowl, you are effectively barred as a school from playing for a national title because you aren't a BCS school. I could care less what the school makes off of the bowl game in terms of money - I don't get a share of that so how does that impact my joy of watching the game?

Wrong... Plenty of teams like Tulane, Louisville (with a loss), Marshall, Utah, Miami(oh) TCU... have finished in the top 10 even with the BCS. Just like any team they need to have some good bounces and have teams lose ahead of them, and probably need a big year the season before to have a shot, but It can happen. Actually the path to play in one of the BCS bowls is easier this year than it ever was before. Actually before the BCS these bowls would not even take 12-0 top #1 BYU team, now they have to take a non BCS if it is in the top 12 of the BCS computers. Heck BYU won the national championship playing a 6 win Michigan. team in the Holiday bowl because these other bowls wouldn't touch them. It can happen and is as likely as a mid major winning the NCAA tourny. Name the last mid major that won a basketball tourny since 1984???





And now that they've moved the game to January 7th I have to wonder who will care about this game other than those in attendance - January 7th is the Sunday of Wild Card weekend in the NFL and it's days after the BCS has crowned their national champion. Meaningless game just doesn't say enough about this bowl this year.

Wrong.

http://www.coasttocoasttickets.com/ncaaf/bowlgame_tickets.shtml

The national title game is on Monday the day after the GMAC.

Is it so meanless making the final 4??? Utah was #4 two years ago (there were 3 non bcs teams in the top 10 that year years after the BCS started). What about one and done like most mid majors are in the dance??? That can still be considered a successful season. Lets face it only one team is going to win the real national title, doesn't mean the rest can't have successful season.

Football doesn't have the same number of upsets as hoops but If you schedule the right people and take care of buisness any real D1 football team can win the national championship or play in a BCS bowl. Basically the whole season is a playoff and important.

[StillJonesing]

We may disagree on a lot, but I'm with you on this.:cool:

And it's not like ECU was ever I-AA. I can see a Marshall fan coming around from time to time to say hi, but it's not like ECU has ever had a tie to this place. Gheesh.xidiotx

You are talking about ECU and some of it derogatory.

[*****]

The D1aa "national" title game amounts to playing a tournament (in which the best team doesn't always win) for the title of #120th best team in College football...I guess that clinches you as ignorant. Have a nice life! xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

[AppGuy04]

I guess that clinches you as ignorant. Have a nice life! xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

Guess he's never heard of these football powerhouses:
Duke
Rice
Kent St
Buffalo
New Mexico St
Temple
:rolleyes:

All of which, I could name 10 I-AA teams that could whoop them

[GannonFan]

The D1aa "national" title game amounts to playing a tournament (in which the best team doesn't always win) for the title of #120th best team in College football.

Actually, you and I well know that that's just plain silly. The bottom 40 teams at least in IA are teams that would struggle in I-AA. No one is really worse than the likes of Temple, Buffalo, the entire Sun Belt Conference, etc. And the bottom 40 is generous for you. Most years the top teams in I-AA would be better than that. After the top 30 or so in I-A the rest are generally hangerons anyway.

And are you serious knocking the I-AA tournament because the "best" team may not win? "Best" team by whose definition? How do you determine who the "best" team is? Seems to me that playing the teams on the field (you know, where the actual game is played) is a pretty respectable way of determining who the "best" teams are. Don't tell me you would want a tournament (of some type - 4, 8, or 16 teams) for I-A because then you really will expose yourself.




Wrong... Plenty of teams like Tulane, Louisville (with a loss), Marshall, Utah, Miami(oh) TCU... have finished in the top 10 even with the BCS. Just like any team they need to have some good bounces and have teams lose ahead of them, and probably need a big year the season before to have a shot, but It can happen. Actually the path to play in one of the BCS bowls is easier this year than it ever was before. Actually before the BCS these bowls would not even take 12-0 top 10 teams, now they have to take a non BCS if it is in the top 12 of the BCS computers. Heck BYU won the national championship playing a 6 win Michigan. team in the Holiday bowl because these other bowls wouldn't touch them. It can happen and is as likely as a mid major winning the NCAA tourny.

The best you can come up with is BYU? From 1984? You do realize that the college sports landscape has changed just a little bit over the past 22 years? Let me fill you in on what you've missed since you've been away - if you're not in a BCS conference (or Notre Dame) - YOU CANNOT WIN THE NATIONAL TITLE (well, the BCS championship - the NCAA doesn't really recognize a national champ at the I-A level technically speaking). Get that? Playing in a BCS bowl does not mean that you're playing for a national title. It just means that the BCS conferences threw a school a bone and a little money so that there wouldn't be as much public outcry over the fact that only 66 teams (wow, that's an odd number when I think of it - and that's the number of BCS schools plus Notre Dame - maybe the BCS is the sign of the devil after all?) can qualify for the only bowl game that truly matters, the BCS championship game. Utah goes undefeated with a 12-0 record, 4-0 against BCS schools, and they weren't any closer to the BCS championship than a I-AA school was that year, and that was after Utah had a great season (10-2 and a bowl win) the year before. There is no comparison to mid-majors winning an NCAA basketball title (although that won't happen for other reasons) - Mason was two wins away from that this year - Utah, or any other non-BCS non-Notre Dame team can win every game from now for the next 20 years and they still won't win the BCS championship. It's their party, their money, and they're not letting anyone outside of the group of 66 in. End of story.






Wrong.

http://www.coasttocoasttickets.com/ncaaf/bowlgame_tickets.shtml

The national title game is on Monday the day after the GMAC.

You are correct on that one - my bad - but I was right that you're on the same weekend as the NFL Wildcards. I'm thinking any storyline the GMAC bowl will have will be pretty much forgotten after 4 NFL playoff games and the BCS title game the following day. For a person who seems to crave national news coverage for your football team, that's an odd way of going about it.

[GannonFan]

Is it so meanless making the final 4??? Utah was #4 two years ago (there were 3 non bcs teams in the top 10 that year years after the BCS started). What about one and done like most mid majors are in the dance??? That can still be considered a successful season. Lets face it only one team is going to win the real national title, doesn't mean the rest can't have successful season.

Football doesn't have the same number of upsets as hoops but If you schedule the right people and take care of buisness any real D1 football team can win the national championship or play in a BCS bowl. Basically the whole season is a playoff and important.

You added this one in after I started my first reply. The difference between Utah and a basketball team is that the basketball team in on the floor, and can actually win games to win the national title - Utah, or any other non-BCS team, can't get on the floor. I'm not saying it's not a successful season, because of course it is. But Utah had a great schedule in 2004, were coming off of a great season in 2003, went udefeated, beat teams from 4 different BCS conferences (by an average of more than 3 TD's) and had to politic they're way into a BCS bowl, but one that was still several hearbeats away from the only one that mattered, the BCS championship one. Talk about rankings all you want, but a non-BCS team outside of Notre Dame CANNOT make the BCS championship game.

[bluehenbillk]

What's up with the hate towards 1-A some people have? Yes, they have it all wrong with the bowls & BCS (thus my GPI hatred), with no playoff. But to me college football is the best sport there is, 1-A all the way down to D-3.

Only 41 days to go...

[StillJonesing]

You have to understand that this guy StillJonesing is nothing but a flamer. You should see his work on the UNCW and JMU boards over on the CAAZone.

Wrong budo, I never start anything. If you will notice there were some derogatory comments on ECU (read back), on this and all of those boards you mentioned LONGGGGG before I ever showed up. You call it flames I call it facts, and setting it straight..

[GannonFan]

What's up with the hate towards 1-A some people have? Yes, they have it all wrong with the bowls & BCS (thus my GPI hatred), with no playoff. But to me college football is the best sport there is, 1-A all the way down to D-3.

Only 41 days to go...

Oh, I'm witha on that one - I'll be watching tons of I-A games this year. Great football to watch, regardless of the level. I don't understand Ralph's dislike of IA football once they're on the field.

[*****]

Oh, I'm witha on that one - I'll be watching tons of I-A games this year. Great football to watch, regardless of the level. I don't understand Ralph's dislike of IA football once they're on the field.I don't see any hate in this thread besides the hate towards I-AA. BTW, I don't dislike I-A, I just don't pay any attention to it (though I will see a I-A team play this year, 9/9 vs. UNH). I pay attention to the top level of NCAA championship football instead. Seems like that infuriates I-A fans. :confused:

billk still thinks the GPI = the BCS! xlolx

[StillJonesing]

You added this one in after I started my first reply. The difference between Utah and a basketball team is that the basketball team in on the floor, and can actually win games to win the national title - Utah, or any other non-BCS team, can't get on the floor. I'm not saying it's not a successful season, because of course it is. But Utah had a great schedule in 2004, were coming off of a great season in 2003, went udefeated, beat teams from 4 different BCS conferences (by an average of more than 3 TD's) and had to politic they're way into a BCS bowl, but one that was still several hearbeats away from the only one that mattered, the BCS championship one. Talk about rankings all you want, but a non-BCS team outside of Notre Dame CANNOT make the BCS championship game.

I am missing your point. First off that was under the old system. They relaxed the standards now. If you go 12-0 you are going to the BCS from here on out.

Also if you recall Auburn was also undefeated in 2004 and did not get a chance to play in the national title game that year either. Auburn was in the toughest conference in America that year and it didn't matter for them either. BCS didn't keep Utah from winning any more than it helped Auburn.

It's a matter of luck and needing some very top schools to lose. Some years Utah's 2004 season would have put them in the NC game. Also while Utah beat some BCS teams they didn't beat a team that finished in the top 25. They could have scheduled a little better as well. If BYU can win the NC in the holiday bowl a non BCS team can go to the NC game.

[*****]

... Some years Utah's 2004 season would have put them in the NC game...How can you say that when it HAS NEVER HAPPENED? In fact, Utah was THE FIRST I-A non-BCS team to even play in a BCS bowl... EVER!

[GannonFan]

I am missing your point. First off that was under the old system. They relaxed the standards now. If you go 12-0 you are going to the BCS from here on out.

Also if you recall Auburn was also undefeated in 2004 and did not get a chance to play in the national title game that year either. Auburn was in the toughest conference in America that year and it didn't matter for them either. BCS didn't keep Utah from winning any more than it helped Auburn.

It's a matter of luck and needing some very top schools to lose. Some years Utah's 2004 season would have put them in the NC game. Also while Utah beat some BCS teams they didn't beat a team that finished in the top 25. They could have scheduled a little better as well. If BYU can win the NC in the holiday bowl a non BCS team can go to the NC game.


The only thing that has changed is the fact that a team can get a BCS bowl game invite - it says nothing about playing for the BCS Championship game, which is still off-limits to non-BCS teams (and yes, Auburn did get burned, but that just shows how impossible it is for a non-BCS team to make it - even BCS teams have trouble making it and they hold all the cards). Show me one year since the BCS came about that Utah would've played for the national title. You can't because it doesn't exist. Stop bringing up BYU - that was 22 years ago and college football didn't have the BCS back then - until the BCS goes away, only those 66 teams will be eligible for the BCS championship - they'll let other teams play other BCS bowl games, but not the championship. If you really think a non-BCS team could play for the title then all the logic in the world won't convince you otherwise.

Oh, and the GPI blows - way too much scope creep. What was once, in the words of its more ardent proponents, a tool to help select the 16th and last team in the IAA playoffs (although that never seems too difficult, kinda odd to come up with an index to do a fairly simple task), has now morphed into the end all be all of IAA rankings, conference strengths, etc. Where it will end we'll never know. :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[StillJonesing]

How can you say that when it HAS NEVER HAPPENED? In fact, Utah was THE FIRST I-A non-BCS team to even play in a BCS bowl... EVER!

First off the BCS has only been around 8 years. If the standards were in place the previous years that are today, Marshall, TCU, Tulane, Louisville, Boise State would have all went, and honestly Tulane, Marshall and Boise State probably wouldn't have even deserved a BCS bowl but they would have went regardless regardless .. That is a fact. You only have to be in the top 12 now before it was only the top 8.

[*****]

... Oh, and the GPI blows ...:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: xlolx xlolx xlolx "the GPI blows because, because, because,
well I don't know but the GPI blows anyway" :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: xlolx xlolx xlolx

[GannonFan]

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: xlolx xlolx xlolx "the GPI blows because, because, because,
well I don't know but the GPI blows anyway" :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: xlolx xlolx xlolx

Uh oh, Ralph, you're talking like the man now - squash all dissent and non-believers. Oh, and btw, me and the GPI are both tied so far in terms of picking the playoff field - maybe the NCAA committee should just call me every year and save all this time trying to finagle some made up ratings index? ;)

[GannonFan]

First off the BCS has only been around 8 years. If the standards were in place the previous years that are today, Marshall, TCU, Tulane, Louisville, Boise State would have all went, and honestly Tulane, Marshall and Boise State probably wouldn't have even deserved a BCS bowl but they would have went regardless regardless .. That is a fact. You only have to be in the top 12 now before it was only the top 8.

You still don't get it - it's not the BCS championship game. So what if you're in a BCS bowl, all that means is a little better payoff (and again, fans don't share in the payoff so why does it matter to you or to me?). You aren't playing for the title at that level and if you aren't in the group of 66 you won't ever play. Utah had two great years, was undeafeated in their second year and 4-0 against the BCS conferences and they never sniffed the BCS championship game.

[*****]

... me and the GPI are both tied so far in terms of picking the playoff field ...riiiiiiiiiight :rolleyes:
:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: xlolx xlolx xlolx "the GPI blows because, because, because,
well I don't know but the GPI blows anyway" :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: xlolx xlolx xlolx

[StillJonesing]

The only thing that has changed is the fact that a team can get a BCS bowl game invite - it says nothing about playing for the BCS Championship game, which is still off-limits to non-BCS teams (and yes, Auburn did get burned, but that just shows how impossible it is for a non-BCS team to make it - even BCS teams have trouble making it and they hold all the cards). Show me one year since the BCS came about that Utah would've played for the national title. You can't because it doesn't exist. Stop bringing up BYU - that was 22 years ago and college football didn't have the BCS back then - until the BCS goes away, only those 66 teams will be eligible for the BCS championship - they'll let other teams play other BCS bowl games, but not the championship. If you really think a non-BCS team could play for the title then all the logic in the world won't convince you otherwise.

Oh, and the GPI blows - way too much scope creep. What was once, in the words of its more ardent proponents, a tool to help select the 16th and last team in the IAA playoffs (although that never seems too difficult, kinda odd to come up with an index to do a fairly simple task), has now morphed into the end all be all of IAA rankings, conference strengths, etc. Where it will end we'll never know. :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

Lets just take the year we finished in the top 10 for example. We actually beat some legit good teams including 4 ranked teams. None of those other teams had the resume we had that year.

Syracuse 10-2 finished #11
NC State 9-3 finished #24
Pitt 6-5....ranked #18 at the time
S. Carolina 3-6-2 ranked 20th at the time
Virginia Tech 5-6

We lost by a TD at Illinois who were just outside the polls and still finished #9 with 1 loss. If we had got by them, and every team finished with at least a loss we could have certainly been in the title game. If we had won 9 or 10 games the year before and started the season ranked or had we had any expectations coming into the season we could have seriously challenged. Sure some teams would have to lose but that's the same deal for some BCS's like Auburn or even USC a few years ago to play in the NC game.

It's about scheduling as much as anything. We have the types of schedules to give us a shot in the future where the sky is the limit. I agree your not going to go to the title game being a non BCS and playing a D1aa and some sun belts in an OOC but that's something a team can control. We at least have scheduled to the point we can go to the top with some breaks. A lot of it's all dependent on having a big year the season before though, that's what cost Auburn as much as anything.

[GannonFan]

Lets just take the year we finished in the top 10 for example. We actually beat some legit good teams including 4 ranked teams.

Syracuse 10-2 finished #11
NC State 9-3 finished #24
Pitt 6-5....ranked #18 at the time
S. Carolina 3-6-2 ranked 20th at the time
Virginia Tech 5-6

We lost by a TD at Illinois who were just outside the polls and still finished #9 with 1 loss. If we had won 9 or 10 games the year before and started the season ranked or had we had any expectations coming into the season we could have seriously challenged. Sure some teams would have to lose but that's the same deal for some BCS's like Auburn or even USC a few years ago to play in the NC game.

It's about scheduling as much as anything. We have the types of schedules to give us a shot in the future. It's all dependent on having a big year the season before though, that's what cost Auburn as much as anything.

No, you wouldn't have challenged. You say it right there, it's all about scheduling, and you can't get a conference schedule that is a BCS conference schedule because you aren't in the BCS. Without it, you aren't in the BCS championship game. Yes, you can get into one of the BCS bowl games that doesn't matter except for the higher $$$ (and again, you don't get any of that money so why do you care?), but you can't get into the BCS championship game. High ranking? Absolutely, yes. Chance at winning the BCS championship? Not one iota.

[StillJonesing]

2006
VIRGINIA
WEST VIRGINIA
at Navy
at N.C. State

2007
NORTH CAROLINA
N.C. STATE
#VIRGINIA TECH
at West Virginia

2008
WEST VIRGINIA
TBA
at Virginia
at Virginia Tech

2009
VIRGINIA TECH
at N.C. State
at North Carolina
at West Virginia

Get real if we have a good year and finished in the top 10 and start the next season in the top 15 or so and go undefeated we certainly have a shot playing the types of OOC games we do. It would take some teams losing sure but it could certainly happen.

Louisville's last year in CUSA in 2004 they finished 11-1 #6 in the nation. They started last season in the top 10 with players they recruited while they were not in the BCS. Last year they were a legitimate contender for the national championship and these are the teams they played.

9/4 @ Kentucky (3-8) W 31 24
9/17 vs. Oregon State (5-6) W 63 27
9/24 @ *South Florida (6-6) L 14 45
10/1 vs. Florida Atlantic (2-9) W 61 10
10/8 vs. North Carolina (5-6) W 69 14
10/15 @ *West Virginia (11-1) L 44 46
10/22 @ *Cincinnati (4-7) W 46 22
11/3 vs. *Pittsburgh (5-6) W 42 20
11/11 vs. *Rutgers (7-5) W 56 5
11/26 vs. *Syracuse (1-10) W 41 17
12/3 @ *Connecticut (5-6) W 30 20

ONE team that was elite. We play a tougher schedule than that. Now if USC has slipped up which they came close and Louisville took care of buisness and went undefeated UL is in the championship game.


This is your whole argument???? You don't want to play real D1 because you can't win a national championship???? Finishing in the top 10 beats winning the game to decided #120 (aka D2 NC game).....ask Marshall. Why does anyone care who is the #120th best team in college football?

[*****]

... You have no chance of being any better than that playing in D1aa.And you have no chance of going in the NCAA record books as D-I national champ. :rolleyes: NEXT!

[StillJonesing]

And you have no chance of going in the NCAA record books as D-I national champ. :rolleyes: NEXT!

Does any team real D1 team?? I didn't think the NCAA named a D1 NC.

What we do have is a display in the college football hall of fame for our top 10 season. You should check it out.

[*****]

... I didn't think the NCAA named a D1 NC...Like I said before... ignorance.

[StillJonesing]

Says the guy with 18k post.

Good work:thumbsup:

[JMU Duke Dog]

:eek: StillJonesing has found AGS! JMU posters know him from his constant personal ECU vs. JMU debate that he made up for who knows what reason.

Hopefully StillJonesing will leave soon! :anim_chai

[AppGuy04]

If this guy is an ECU fan, that is just hilarious

[*****]

Says the guy with 18k post.
Good work:thumbsup:sez the guy with 19 posts. Maybe read a bit and learn about the NCAA's highest level of championship football?

[JMU Duke Dog]

If this guy is an ECU fan, that is just hilarious

I hope he is not your typical ECU person as ECU is one of the schools I am applying to for graduate studies! :o

[StillJonesing]

:eek: StillJonesing has found AGS! JMU posters know him from his constant personal ECU vs. JMU debate that he made up for who knows what reason.

Hopefully StillJonesing will leave soon! :anim_chai

Yes I made up the fact that someone posted a "Pirates vs Dukes" thread and called us a bottom feeder program and how you would beat us. Keep dreaming even our worst teams have beat the class of D1aa. Sure. You just didn't think anyone would call your BS.

[*****]

Yes I made up the fact...Well, you made up a score and a fumble here already...

[StillJonesing]

sez the guy with 19 posts. Maybe read a bit and learn about the NCAA's highest level of championship football?

So do you compete there???xlolx

[JMU Duke Dog]

Yes I made up the fact that someone poste a Pirates vs Dukes thread and called us a bottom feeder program and how you would beat us. Sure. You just didn't think anyone would call your BS.

I think there are several I-AA teams that could beat ECU in football. I think you are just bitter that JMU has beaten out ECU for recruits in the recent past. :hurray:

[*****]

So do you compete there???xlolxI-AA does, ECU never has. :nod:

[StillJonesing]

Well, you made up a score and a fumble here already...

No I didn't we had 3 in the first half that ended drives and gave the other team good field position. Check the stats you took the time to look up.

[StillJonesing]

I-AA does, ECU never has. :nod:

ECU has never been a D1aa. That is correct. "D1aa= we play for #120"

[*****]

No I didn't we had 3 in the first half that ended drives and gave the other team good field position. Check the stats you took the time to look up.Hilarious, now you are trying to spin yourself out of your lies that are posted here plain as day. xlolx xlolx xlolx : smh : xlolx xlolx xlolx

Go back to where you came from because you are out of your class at AGS. :nod:

[*****]

ECU has never been a D1aa...Whining about it won't help. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[StillJonesing]

I think there are several I-AA teams that could beat ECU in football. I think you are just bitter that JMU has beaten out ECU for recruits in the recent past. :hurray:

Who the heck would you be refering to??? Because the last one I know of was a QB transfer from FL Patrick Dosh who is now our FB.


http://eastcarolina.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=31395
http://eastcarolina.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=9807

I guess by that logic we are beating out Penn State, Nebraska, Georgia, Tennesse etc....

[JMU Duke Dog]

Who the heck would you be refering to??? Because the last one I know of was a QB transfer from FL Patrick Dosh a transfer RB and he is our FB.

Let me know when you get some 4 star players on your team. You don't beat us out except maybe a fringe player here or there.


http://eastcarolina.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=31395
http://eastcarolina.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=9807

:nono:

One of the few recent ones was high school class of 2006's Brett Ainsley out of Chesapeake, Virginia. :nod:
http://www.jmusports.com/Team/Players/2_233_Bio.asp?TeamID=2

OL – 6-5 – 295 – Chesapeake, Va. – Western Branch

2005 first-team All-Southeastern District offensive lineman, first-team All-Tidewater offensive lineman, and first-team All-Eastern Region. 2004 first-team All-Southeastern District offensive lineman and second-team all-region.

[StillJonesing]

:nono:

One of the few recent ones was high school class of 2006's Brett Ainsley out of Chesapeake, Virginia. :nod:
http://www.jmusports.com/Team/Players/2_233_Bio.asp?TeamID=2

OL – 6-5 – 295 – Chesapeake, Va. – Western Branch

2005 first-team All-Southeastern District offensive lineman, first-team All-Tidewater offensive lineman, and first-team All-Eastern Region. 2004 first-team All-Southeastern District offensive lineman and second-team all-region.


yeap that 2 star guy was the ONLY one the other JMU fans could produce as well.

Congrats :hurray: on you rmarginal recruit you apparently beat us out for.

[*****]

take it easy on Easy You because his team is hurting... 5-6 with no wins over teams with a winning record... eeking out wins over 1-10 opponents... feel sorry for him... Massey rated his team 17 slots behind ASU, right behind Akron...

[*****]

yeap...man, this guy is a complete whiffer... proved wrong again and again... pity really. Hey Pirate, we won't tell anyone, just go ahead and fade away.

[JMU Duke Dog]

I would also take Justin Rascati over Patrick Dosh anyday! Justin Rascati QBed the Dukes to a national championship, and what has Patrick Dosh done for the Pirates?

[StillJonesing]

I would also take Justin Rascati over Patrick Dosh anyday! Justin Rascati QBed the Dukes to a national championship, and what has Patrick Dosh done for the Pirates?


Nothing we have tp many talented QB's ahead of him. This Florida Gator is now playing FB... He couldn't sniff the field as a QB.....

Offense
QB J.Pinkney 6-3 215..Sr...offers from Iowa St, Indiana. Mizz…..3 star #30 best QB rivals in his class …#50 best QB in all of College Football the nation by Phil Steele
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=760&Sport=1


] D. Drew..6-4 240..So....#23 best QB Tom Lemmings….offers to Maryland, and Clemson
http://espn.go.com/recruiting/s/2004topqbs.html
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=720321

D. Harris #31 scout QB offers from Boston College, Kentucky, and Georgia...
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=2005615


P. Dosh 6-3 240..Sr.....transfer from Florida…. 3 Star #20 rivals… 3 star #43 rivals best QB offers from Virginia Tech, Florida, UNC HEY REMEMBER THIS GUY :)
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=1845&Sport=1
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=3179

[JMU Duke Dog]

I don't think the Dukes would have a football national championship trophy with Patrick Dosh at QB. Justin Rascati did what Patrick Dosh would most likely not have done.

[*****]

The Easy You Whiffer has been reading too many recruiting hype machine sites... :)

Wonder why former I-AA stars get any success whatsoever if you go by his sites? The sites are hype machines and have little value.

[WUTNDITWAA]

You are talking about ECU and some of it derogatory.

Let's settle it on the field. :asswhip:





That's what I thought.

[StillJonesing]

Let's settle it on the field. :asswhip:





That's what I thought.

Move up and I have no problem with that.

Recruiting hype machines? Just so you know we have put 8 players in the NFL in the last 3 years and we haven't even been that good in this period....

D. Duckett (Giants)
T. Copper (cowboys)
B. Rimph (Ravens)
V. Leach (Packers)
C. Moore (Saints)
I. Emodie (packers)
Z. Baker (Steelers)
G. Whimper(Giants)

Not to mention several CFL players..

It wasn't a talent thing.

Obviously there is somthing to these servers.

[WUTNDITWAA]

[QUOTE=StillJonesing]Move up and I have no problem with that. Until then we don't play lower levels.
QUOTE]

Chicken.xcoffeex

[StillJonesing]

[QUOTE=StillJonesing]Move up and I have no problem with that. Until then we don't play lower levels.
QUOTE]

Chicken.xcoffeex

Have you seen our OOC schdules??? Get real

1999
Miami
West Virginia
NC State
Duke
@South Carolina

2000
Virginia Tech
Syracuse
@Duke
@West Virginia

2001
Wake Forest
William & Mary (D1aa)
@ Syracuse
@North Carolina



2002
@Duke
@Wake Forest
@West Virginia

2003
West Virginia
North Carolina
@Miami
@ Wake Forest


2004
Wake Forest
NC State (Charlotte)
@West Virginia

2005
Duke
@Wake Forest
@ West Virginia

2006
VIRGINIA
WEST VIRGINIA
@ Navy
@ N.C. State

2007
NORTH CAROLINA
N.C. STATE
VIRGINIA TECH (Charlotte)
@West Virginia

2008
WEST VIRGINIA
@Virginia
@Virginia Tech
TBA

2009
VIRGINIA TECH
@N.C. State
@North Carolina
@West Virginia

2010
NAVY
N.C. STATE
@North Carolina
@Virginia Tech

2011
VIRGINIA TECH
NORTH CAROLINA
@Navy
TBA

2012
NAVY
@Virginia Tech
TBA
TBA

2013
VIRGINIA TECH
@N.C State
TBA
TBA

2014
@VIRGINIA TECH

2015
VIRGINIA TECH

No room for D1aa's.

[WUTNDITWAA]

There's a TBA in 2008. Wanna play? Or should I start making clucking sounds?

[blukeys]

I hope he is not your typical ECU person as ECU is one of the schools I am applying to for graduate studies! :o

The one ECU grad I am friends with is the 3rd husband of my ex-wife. He is a great guy and excellent golfer and a UD season ticket holder!!!!!!!!!

Can't get any better than that. By the way he likes ECU but admits they are cannon fodder for the Penn State's of the world!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[*****]

Have you seen our OOC schdules???Yep, looks like ECU is a real money grubber and afraid to lose to I-AA. Most of your opponents aren't and play I-AA teams. Good luck this year. I-AA ALL THE WAY!

[EKU05]

This isn't a flame, but I've been to two TSU games where the attendance was under 5,000. Their classic games and homecoming inflate their attendance figures quite a bit...(having said that they still travel better than any other team in the OVC).

[*****]

This isn't a flame, but I've been to two TSU games where the attendance was under 5,000. Their classic games and homecoming inflate their attendance figures quite a bit...(having said that they still travel better than any other team in the OVC).better than EKU?

[sdgriz24]

Hey stilljonesing,if your crappy team wasn't afraid to play a couple i-aa teams they know they would get owned by a "lower level" team.

Oh and Montana would own ECU
ECU=Extremely Crappy University

[BearsCountry]

I know stilljonesing's posts from the CUSA. He is a good poster. Its amazing that a school like ECU is playing the top schools in region is getting blasted for not playing I-AA's.

[AppGuy04]

How can a team that struggles to get out of the CUSA basement every year come here and talk smack

[lambertjr]

I think the Sun Belt Conf. would be a perfect home for some of these teams rumored to be looking at going 1-A.
I would like to see LaTech,USF,and UCF head that way too.

[StillJonesing]

How can a team that struggles to get out of the CUSA basement every year come here and talk smack

Since we joined CUSA

2005 4-4 6th place/ 12 teams
2004 2-6 10th place/ 11 teams
2003 1-7 10th place/11 teams
2002 4-4 5th place /11 teams
2001 5-2 2nd place/ 10 teams
2000 5-2 2nd place/9 teams
1999 4-2 2nd place/9 teams
1998 3-3 4th / 8 teams
1997 4-2 3rd/ 8 teams

*1994 & 1995.... Liberty Alliance Champ (precursor to CUSA)

Gee what an exaggeration.

[StillJonesing]

I know stilljonesing's posts from the CUSA. He is a good poster. Its amazing that a school like ECU is playing the top schools in region is getting blasted for not playing I-AA's.

Thanks BTW.

Nothing against D1aa's, but our situation just really doesn't allow for playing them. We are pretty isolated in our new conference. Back in the day you would play most regional games in your conference and then play a couple of national games. Basically we have to flip that philosophy on it's head since CUSA is a national conference and stay in the region for the OOC.

Although CUSA is the best thing going outside the BCS cartel it isn't a Power conference so we have to schedule BCS teams in the OOC to get our SOS up, and because our fans want games with local "Big Schools" and the interest it generates. We could probably benefit like most schools by playing a D1aa since the NCAA now allows them to now count towards bowl eligibility every year, but honestly we have bigger aspirations and always have. It makes to much "dollars and sense" to pass it up a game with UNC or UVA for a game with App or JMU. That's just the truth.


Back to the topic at hand. This thread is "why join D1".

I say why not???? Don't you want to test your self on the highest level? Why are teams like Delaware, Montana, Georgia Southern, etc so content??? If you have won a championship in D1aa or numerous championships what is there really left to do???

[sdgriz24]

Because we don't want to move up and have mediocrity and not be able to win the conference we're in like ECU.I support Montana moving upp just because I think that we would be more like Boise State than Idaho but you never know,and our Idaho counterpart would have to move up with us(MSU).Oh and we don't have the money most likely.

[*****]

... This thread is "why join D1"...First of all you're wrong AGAIN. This thread is "Why move to I-A?" Spell it right or get the heck off this board. Myself and many others are tired of your act and we don't want you here purposefully demeaning our teams. Get with it or hit the highway. :read:

[StillJonesing]

First of all you're wrong AGAIN. This thread is "Why move to I-A?" Spell it right or get the heck off this board. Myself and many others are tired of your act and we don't want you here purposefully demeaning our teams. Get with it or hit the highway. :read:

What a ridiculous nit picker.

[StillJonesing]

Because we don't want to move up and have mediocrity and not be able to win the conference we're in like ECU.I support Montana moving upp just because I think that we would be more like Boise State than Idaho but you never know.

That just sounds like you and the Montana administration are afraid. You guys already have more going for you than most D1-aa's. Heck you're a state flagship university, (and one of the only ones not in D1a). It's not like you would have to go to the Sun Belt. The WAC is pretty solid conference with some pretty decent bowls, basketball would automatically be in a better conference, and you already have history with Boise and Idaho. I don't quite get why you are still playing D1aa. I kind of get why a school like App hasn't made the jump (although they are trying), but you guys have a lot more going for you.

[Tod]

SJ, the point is that most I-AA fans, in particular those that are fans of the better teams (i.e. those that could justify a move to I-A), would rather be a big fish in a smaller pond than a small fish in the bigger pond.

That you're an ECU fan is great. But ECU will never win the I-A "national championship". The best you can hope for is winning your conference and/or winning a somewhat respectable bowl game.

We can play for an NCAA sanctioned national championship.

As a fan of Montana, one of the teams that could make a legitimate arguement to go to I-A, I'd much rather stay in I-AA, even if we could have reasonable success in I-A, eventually. Montana would never, ever be able to compete on the national level in I-A, IMO.

:twocents:

[StillJonesing]

SJ, the point is that most I-AA fans, in particular those that are fans of the better teams (i.e. those that could justify a move to I-A), would rather be a big fish in a smaller pond than a small fish in the bigger pond.

That you're an ECU fan is great. But ECU will never win the I-A "national championship". The best you can hope for is winning your conference and/or winning a somewhat respectable bowl game.

We can play for an NCAA sanctioned national championship.

As a fan of Montana, one of the teams that could make a legitimate arguement to go to I-A, I'd much rather stay in I-AA, even if we could have reasonable success in I-A, eventually. Montana would never, ever be able to compete on the national level in I-A, IMO. I don't think we would be able to seat 50k in our stadium or draw as many as 42k over the last 10 years if we were still in the southern conference.

:twocents:


I don't accept that we could never win a National Championship, I REALLY don't.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/Top201011.jpg

Perhaps we couldn't have finished any better than #3 that year, but WHAT if #1 and 2 had stumbled, we would have had a shot.

Another year we went 8-3 and finished #20 in the nation with a win over a top 20 Missiouri team and NC State. The three losses were to...

Miami (11-1)..... 7-12....... National Champion
Florida (9-2-1)....17-24
FL State (7-5).....46-47

All three of those teams finished ranked in the top 25, what if we found those 13 points, what would they have done with us then??? I can tell you , we would have won the National Championship. If BYU can do it, it can be done.

We were a candidate for the Big East and maybe we get into that conference in a couple of years. Virginia Tech was nothing before they got into the Big East and look at them now. Not only that things can change, maybe the MWC gets a BCS bid, maybe you guys could be added to it, but I can tell you you aren't going to go straight from D1aa.

Bottom line is 118 teams are not going to win the National Championship each year some BCS teams that go undefeat some times don't. That's just the fact of life on the big stage, that doesn't mean your program still can't be successful at the highest level.

[Tod]

I don't accept that we could never win a National Championship, I REALLY don't.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/Top201011.jpg

Another year we went 8-3 and finished #20 in the nation with a win over a top 20 Missiouri team and NC State. The three losses were to...

Miami (11-1)..... 7-12....... National Champion
Florida (9-2-1)....17-24
FL State (7-5).....46-47

All three of those teams finished ranked in the top 25, what if we found those 13 points, what would they have done with us then??? I can tell you , we would have won the National Championship. If BYU can do it, it can be done.

We were a candidate for the Big East and maybe we get into that conference in a couple of years. Virginia Tech was nothing before they got into the Big East and look at them now. Not only that things can change, maybe the MWC gets a BCS bid, maybe you guys could be added to it, but I can tell you you aren't going to go straight from D1aa.

Bottom line is 118 teams are not going to win the National Championship each year, that doesn't mean your program still can't be successful at the highest level.

Well, maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is possible, but I don't see Idaho, Buffalo, Troy State, North Texas, etc., ever winning it.

My ignorance of I-A ball is probably obvious, but it's not so bad that I think Montana could contend for the "NC" in my lifetime.

[blukeys]

Back to the topic at hand. This thread is "why join D1".

I say why not???? Don't you want to test your self on the highest level? Why are teams like Delaware, Montana, Georgia Southern, etc so content??? If you have won a championship in D1aa or numerous championships what is there really left to do???

This is a fair question and I will attempt to answer it from Delaware's perspective.

I think you will find that there is a different attitude at Appalachian State that it is more rabid about I-A move. I can actually see their perspective since their traditional local rivals over the years were Wake Forest, NC State and I might add ECU. App State fans see the I-AA badge as being inferior in their own area compared to the local I-A teams they used to play. Also these local I-A teams have not hemorraged dollars as badly as most C-USA or Sunbelt teams have. You may correct me if I'm wrong but my recollection is that football is a money loser at ECU.

At Delaware our former opponents that have gone to I-A have seen nothing but disaster. Rutgers may be on the road back to respectability but they are hardly a program to emulate. Buffalo is a disaster and a laughingstock. And Temple,........Well they are Temple.

In addition all three of these programs get beat by quality I-AA teams when they have the courage to schedule these teams. :thumbsup:

All three of these programs are costing their schools big bucks. They are losing money left and right and their football programs are not garnering positive press.

Delaware on the other hand reports making about $1.5 million per year. (Personally I think this is a low ball figure)

The Big Bucks in I-A football come from associating with a I-A BCS conference. It makes no sense for Delaware to go the SunBelt, MAC or C-USA conference as they are already doing better financially then the members of these conferences.

Would Delaware move up if the Big East or ACC came calling? Who knows? But the right offer would get some new thinking.:nod: :nod:

The financing for either would be difficult but doable in my mind especially if Hen fans knew that UD would be going to a BCS conference. But so far as I know neither conference has asked. I would expect inquiries from the Big East before the ACC.

From a financial standpoint UD does better than 90% of Division I. This includes I-A and I-AA. Why change when your former rivals have made the move and done nothing but hemorrage dollars????

[StillJonesing]

Not sure why you would think football is a money loser for us.

Attendance

East Carolina 33,046
Montana 22,479
Delaware 22,177
App State 17,917

Sure there are more scholorships to support, but we charge $40 for some tickets (For instance the UVA and West Virginia home games cost 40 bucks) and $30 for the cheaper ones, not sure D1aa's are that high.

[Tod]

Not sure why you would think football is a money loser for us.

Attendance

East Carolina 33,046
Montana 22,479
Delaware 22,177
App State 17,917

Sure there are more scholorships to support, but we charge $40 for some tickets (For instance the UVA and West Virginia home games cost 40 bucks) and $30 for the cheaper ones, not sure D1aa's are that high.

I think you'd need to see a financial statement to know for sure. I assume they're funding 22 more scholarships than the other three teams you've listed, and I'd assume they pay their coaching staff considerably more.

On the other hand, they probably have more TV revenue as well as the ticket sales.

[blackfordpu]

App and Georgia Southern fans have long been talking about moving up to I-A. My question is why? Why go from being widely considered as a I-AA powerhouse to relative obscurity as a I-A team? Your thoughts?

One word:

MONEY!

[*****]

What a ridiculous nit picker.What an habitual buffoon.
Not sure why you would think football is a money loser for us...Maybe because the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act shows ECU has $5,360,281 in football revenues and $5,529,883 in football expenses.
Reporting Official : Dr. Steven Ballard
Title : Chancellor
Phone : 252-328-6640
Sanctioning Body : NCAA Division I-A
http://ope.ed.gov

I advised you not to bring your second rate BS to AGS but you continue and have gotten shot down so many times now. Please, for your own sake, leave.

[sdgriz24]

Ralph this is off topic but can you tell me who your favorite team is?

[StillJonesing]

What an habitual buffoon.Maybe because the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act shows ECU has $5,360,281 in football revenues and $5,529,883 in football expenses.
Reporting Official : Dr. Steven Ballard
Title : Chancellor
Phone : 252-328-6640
Sanctioning Body : NCAA Division I-A
http://ope.ed.gov

I advised you not to bring your second rate BS to AGS but you continue and have gotten shot down so many times now. Please, for your own sake, leave.

....So riddle me this, WHERE exactly did we find $37 MILLION dollars over the last 8 years to improve to our football facilities??? IF it is such a money LOSER. Please explain......

$14 Million Upper Deck (1998)
$7 Million Club seating (1998)
$2 Million Dollar scoreboard/Video (1999)
$13 Million dollar Murphy Center (2002)
$1 million dollar Turf practice facility (2005)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/VTGAMEsmall.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/murphsmall.jpg

This while we also found $11 Million to renovate the basketball arena in 1995 and $11 million to build this baseball stadium in (2004) much in the same time period, How exactly is that possible, for an athletic department that is losing money?????..

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/558439.jpg

Come on, I don't buy it. We are currently planning to bowl in the endzone in and build a new press boxes in the next couple of years. If we were losing money no way this is even on the table.

Anyone that knows anything about business knows that company's sometimes show loss's, and yes I would call college athletics big business. It is all dependent on what time of the year they report. That may have been strategic, we were just coming off our worst 2 years in a couple of decades, and paying 2 head football coaches, a basketball coach, and a baseball coach we that we all fired. I can possibly believe we showed a loss but that is HARDLY the norm, and any one that thinks so look at the money spent, you don't just spend $60 Million on facility improvement the last decade if you're losing money.

I don't think any of that happens if we are in D1-aa. Which is why I would say going D1a makes more financial sense in the long run.

[dbackjon]

....So riddle me this, WHERE exactly did we find $37 MILLION dollars over the last 8 years to improve to our football facilities??? IF it is such a money LOSER. Please explain......

$14 Million Upper Deck (1998)
$7 Million Club seating (1998)
$2 Million Dollar scoreboard/Video (1999)
$13 Million dollar Murphy Center (2002)
$1 million dollar Turf practice facility (2005)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/VTGAMEsmall.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/murphsmall.jpg

This while we also found $11 Million to renovate the basketball arena in 1995 and $11 million to build this baseball stadium in (2004) much in the same time period, How exactly is that possible, for an athletic department that is losing money?????..

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/558439.jpg

Come on, I don't buy it. We are currently planning to bowl in the endzone in and build a new press boxes in the next couple of years. If we were losing money no way this is even on the table.

Anyone that knows anything about business knows that company's sometimes show loss's, and yes I would call college athletics big business. It is all dependent on what time of the year they report. That may have been strategic, we were just coming off our worst 2 years in a couple of decades, and paying 2 head football coaches, a basketball coach, and a baseball coach we that we all fired. I can possibly believe we showed a loss but that is HARDLY the norm, and any one that thinks so look at the money spent, you don't just spend $60 Million on facility improvement the last decade if your losing money.

I don't think any of that happens if we are in D1-aa. Which is why I would say going D1a makes more financial sense in the long run.

It's called fund-raising, and student fees.

You are incredibly stupid, man - even when facts are laid out if front of you, you want to argue. Is the sky blue in your little world?

[AppGuy04]

Since we joined CUSA

2005 4-4 6th place/ 12 teams
2004 2-6 10th place/ 11 teams
2003 1-7 10th place/11 teams
2002 4-4 5th place /11 teams
2001 5-2 2nd place/ 10 teams
2000 5-2 2nd place/9 teams
1999 4-2 2nd place/9 teams
1998 3-3 4th / 8 teams
1997 4-2 3rd/ 8 teams

*1994 & 1995.... Liberty Alliance Champ (precursor to CUSA)

Gee what an exaggeration.


So its been a 1/2 a decade since you had a winning conference season, yeah, exaggeration alright. If Duke didn't play football, you would be the worst team in NC, and even thats questionable.

[StillJonesing]

It's called fund-raising, and student fees.

You are incredibly stupid, man - even when facts are laid out if front of you, you want to argue. Is the sky blue in your little world?

Nope

Athletic contributions and student fee's are included in the budget/revenue. Lots of businesses run in the red (many times on purpose). It's all about when you report to the government. Your "facts" clearly do not give you the whole picture.

[*****]

Ralph this is off topic but can you tell me who your favorite team is?My son's little league team. After that it is every I-AA team.

[*****]

...It's all about when you report to the government. Your "facts" clearly do not give you the whole picture.Reporting Official : Dr. Steven Ballard
Title : Chancellor
Phone : 252-328-6640

Give him a call, he's the one at ECU who reported it. Let us know when you know "the whole picture." :rolleyes:

[StillJonesing]

So its been a 1/2 a decade since you had a winning conference season, yeah, exaggeration alright. If Duke didn't play football, you would be the worst team in NC, and even thats questionable.

NAHH App State, Western Carolina, Davidson, and Elon are all still firmly behind us :D

I would say that is very debatable. I can name quite a few years we were easily the top team or the 2nd best team in the state, and our program averages about twice as many fans as Wake and Duke.

And second off I don't measure ECU against the conference. The OOC is much more important IMO....

Non BCS-Wins over teams in the power conferences WHILE they were in power conferences the last 10 years:

1. Utah 14
2. ECU 13
3. BYU 12
4. TCU 11
5. Fresno State 10
6t. Air Force 8
6t. S. Miss 8
8t Colorado St 7
8t Toledo 7
10t Bowling Green 6
10t La Tech 6
10t Miami Oh 6
10t Houston 6

And that even includes hitting our rough strech. Miami, S. Carolina, Texas Tech, NC State, Syracuse, and West Virginia. That's where you get the respect.

[AppGuy04]

NAHH App State, Western Carolina, Davidson, and Elon are all still firmly behind us :D

I would say that is very debatable. I can name quite a few years we were easily the top team or the 2nd best team in the state, and our program averages about twice as many fans as Wake and Duke.

And second off I don't measure ECU against the conference. The OOC is much more important IMO....

Non BCS-Wins over teams in the power conferences WHILE they were in power conferences the last 10 years:

1. Utah 14
2. ECU 13
3. BYU 12
4. TCU 11
5. Fresno State 10
6t. Air Force 8
6t. S. Miss 8
8t Colorado St 7
8t Toledo 7
10t Bowling Green 6
10t La Tech 6
10t Miami Oh 6
10t Houston 6

And that even includes hitting our rough strech. Miami, S. Carolina, Texas Tech, NC State, Syracuse, and West Virginia. That's where you get the respect.

Man, are you living in the past, ECU WAS, and i repeat WAS a football school at one point in time, now they the worst I-A team in the state and quite possibly inferior to two mountain I-AA schools. If you want a crappy product on the field, be my guest, enjoy the money, but you get no respect from me or any other school on this site.

[StillJonesing]

Man, are you living in the past, ECU WAS, and i repeat WAS a football school at one point in time, now they the worst I-A team in the state and quite possibly inferior to two mountain I-AA schools. If you want a crappy product on the field, be my guest, enjoy the money, but you get no respect from me or any other school on this site.

Please define inferior??

I could swear we averaged twice the fans, had 3 times the stadium, 3 times the budget, and had 5 real d1 wins last year to App's zero.... Perhaps I dreamt that up.

To your other point, I didn’t know that 2 years made a program. If that was the case in the last decade all the state schools have had had plenty of ebbs and flows, why are we held to a different standard?

1995
ECU 9-3 #16
UNC 7-5 #44
NCSU 3-8 #77
Wake 1-10 #107
Duke 3-8 #81


1996
UNC 10-2 #11
ECU 8-3 #24
NCSU 3-8 #88
Wake 3-8 #95
Duke 0-11 #111


1997
UNC 11-1 #6
NCSU 6-5 #53
ECU 5-6 #60
Wake 5-6 #71
Duke 2-9 #101



1998
UNC 7-5 #39
NCSU 7-5 #46
ECU 6-5 #57
Duke 4-7 #77
Wake 3-8 #88



1999
ECU 9-3 #20
Wake 7-5 #45
NCSU 6-6 #62
UNC 3-8 #93
Duke 3-8 #96

2000
ECU 8-4 #29
NCSU 8-4 #37
UNC 6-5 #53
Wake 2-9 #102
Duke 0-11 #115


2001
UNC 8-5 #35
NCSU 7-5 #45
ECU 6-6 #61
Wake 6-5 #65
Duke 0-11 #117


2002
NCSU 11-3 #16
Wake 7-6 #56
ECU 4-8 #86
UNC 3-9 #94
Duke 2-10 #107


2003
NCSU 8-5 #35
Wake 5-7 #70
Duke 4-8 #86
UNC 2-10 #102
ECU 1-11 #113

2004
NCSU 5-6 #56
UNC 6-6 #59
Wake 4-7 #80
Duke 2-9 #107
ECU 2-9 #110


2005
NCSU 7-5 #42
UNC 5-6 #69
ECU 5-6 #79
Wake 4-7 #85
Duke 1-10 #115

http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/1995_archive_computer_rankings.html

:hurray:

[StillJonesing]

Please define inferior??

I could swear we averaged twice the fans, had 3 times the stadium, 3 times the budget, and had 5 real d1 wins last year to App's zero.... Perhaps I dreamt that up.

To your other point, I didn’t know that 2 years made a program. Gee that's a knew one on me. If that was the case in the last decade all the state schools have had had plenty of 2 year down turns, and ebbs and flows, why are we held to a different standard?

1995
1 ECU 9-3 #16
2 UNC 7-5 #44
3 NCSU 3-8 #77
4 Wake 1-10 #107
5 Duke 3-8 #81


1996
1 UNC 10-2 #11
2 ECU 8-3 #24
3 NCSU 3-8 #88
4 Wake 3-8 #95
5 Duke 0-11 #111


1997
1 UNC 11-1 #6
2 NCSU 6-5 #53
3 ECU 5-6 #60
4 Wake 5-6 #71
5 Duke 2-9 #101



1998
1 UNC 7-5 #39
2 NCSU 7-5 #46
3 ECU 6-5 #57
4 Duke 4-7 #77
5 Wake 3-8 #88



1999
1 ECU 9-3 #20
2 Wake 7-5 #45
3 NCSU 6-6 #62
4 UNC 3-8 #93
5 Duke 3-8 #96

2000
1 ECU 8-4 #29
2 NCSU 8-4 #37
3 UNC 6-5 #53
4 Wake 2-9 #102
5 Duke 0-11 #115


2001
1 UNC 8-5 #35
2 NCSU 7-5 #45
3 ECU 6-6 #61
4 Wake 6-5 #65
5 Duke 0-11 #117


2002
1 NCSU 11-3 #16
2 Wake 7-6 #56
3 ECU 4-8 #86
4 UNC 3-9 #94
5 Duke 2-10 #107


2003
1 NCSU 8-5 #35
2 Wake 5-7 #70
3 Duke 4-8 #86
4 UNC 2-10 #102
5 ECU 1-11 #113

2004
1 NCSU 5-6 #56
2 UNC 6-6 #59
3 Wake 4-7 #80
4 Duke 2-9 #107
5 ECU 2-9 #110


2005
1 NCSU 7-5 #42
2 UNC 5-6 #69
3 ECU 5-6 #79
4 Wake 4-7 #85
5 Duke 1-10 #115

http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/1995_archive_computer_rankings.html

:hurray: :thumbsup:

[*****]

Originally Posted by StillJonesing
Please define inferior?? ...
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/1995_archive_computer_rankings.htmlThose rankings.
These rankings combine schedule strength, on-field performance, and won-loss record to produce an unbiased rating of all 108 major college football teams.Try these:
2005 Massey
NCSU 7-5 #33
UNC 5-6 #37
Wake 4-7 #48
ASU 12-3 #70
ECU 5-6 #87
Duke 1-10 #116
http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&yr=2005

[StillJonesing]

Those rankings.Try these:
2005 Massey
NCSU 7-5 #33
UNC 5-6 #37
Wake 4-7 #48
ASU 12-3 #70
ECU 5-6 #87
Duke 1-10 #116
http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&yr=2005

I don't trust any poll with D1aa's in it. In case you missed the boat, it's another level.

[*****]

In case you missed the boat, it's another level.I know you missed the boat, this one is used in the BCS. Figures you don't know the difference (nor the site you quoted) between a computer rating and a poll.

[StillJonesing]

I know you missed the boat, this one is used in the BCS.

I don't have a problem with the rankings of the D1's, but how the hell do they judge the D1aa's? Seriously a few play D1aa's and for the most part they get it handed to them.

[*****]

I don't have a problem with the rankings of the D1's, but how the hell do they judge the D1aa's? Seriously a few play D1aa's and for the most part they get it handed to them.You are completely clueless. I am requesting that you are banned from this site. Congratulations. Bye!

[AppGuy04]

Thank you Ralph

[lambertjr]

I don't have a problem with the rankings of the D1's, but how the hell do they judge the D1aa's? Seriously a few play D1aa's and for the most part they get it handed to them.

How do they judge??? Is that a serious question?

[AppGuy04]

How do they judge??? Is that a serious question?
Depends on the ranking, check out the essential links at the top of the page. GPi and Massey are two of the best IMO

[StillJonesing]

Originally Posted by ralph
What an habitual buffoon.Maybe because the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act shows ECU has $5,360,281 in football revenues and $5,529,883 in football expenses.



HMMMMM, Big news for our financially struggling program today.

:rolleyes:

On top of the $60 Million in total athletic facility improvement the last decade. We released plans to bowl in our endzone in adding 8,000 more seats as well as to build a new pressbox/luxury suites.

Price tag for 8k seats and a pressbox $50 Million dollars, completion planned for 2011. (for perspective UCF's new 45k seat stadium cost $51 million total).


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/dowdyfick2011smaller.jpg

[*****]

... We released plans..."No time for loooooosers for we are the champeeeeens......." xlolx

good luck with all those donor expenditures though!

[AppGuy04]

HMMMMM, Big news for our financially struggling program today.

:rolleyes:

On top of the $60 Million in total athletic facility improvement the last decade. We released plans to bowl in our endzone in adding 8,000 more seats as well as to build a new pressbox/luxury suites.

Price tag for 8k seats and a pressbox $50 Million dollars, completion planned for 2011. (for perspective UCF's new 45k seat stadium cost $51 million total).


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/StillJonesing/dowdyfick2011smaller.jpg

all this brings you what? 2-9 records? Yeah, be proud of that

[StillJonesing]

all this brings you what? 2-9 records? Yeah, be proud of that

LOL sure.....

50k+ stadium with all the bells and whitles, and big time teams locally coming in many times this next decade. This is why you move to D1a.

[GannonFan]

LOL sure.....

50k+ stadium with all the bells and whitles, and big time teams locally coming in many times this next decade. This is why you move to D1a.

So who's coming in? No offense to you, but ECU's not exactly putting up the best home schedules in the world over the past 10 years - besides getting Va Tech once in awhile, and maybe West Virginia and the North Carolina's, there's plenty more of Army, Tulane, Tulsa, Houston, Cinci, etc. And for every good game there's at least a counterweight bad game - Temple, East Tennesee St, Northern Illinois, William and Mary. Let's be real, ECU's home OOC schedule is not chocked full of Michigan's (well, they did play Central Michigan), Florida St's, Notre Dame, etc. It's an alright schedule, but not something I'd do a lot of flips over. With a few exceptions, pretty much all 2nd tier I-A teams that in no way have a shot at legitimately playing for the national title in I-A - pretty much like ECU themselves. ;)

[AppGuy04]

LOL sure.....

50k+ stadium with all the bells and whitles, and big time teams locally coming in many times this next decade. This is why you move to D1a.

man, I don't care who comes in, if you lose all of them, what good is that?

[StillJonesing]

man, I don't care who comes in, if you lose all of them, what good is that?

I would rather lose by 30 to UNC than beat Mars Hill by 100, and judging from history we will not lose all of them maybe not even the majority of them in the next 10 years. (we were 26-26 vs power conference teams in the 10 years from 1991-2000)

[AppGuy04]

I would rather lose by 30 to UNC than beat Mars Hill by 100, and judging from history we will not lose all of them maybe not even the majority of them in the next 10 years. (we were 26-26 vs power conference teams in the 10 years from 1991-2000)

Dude, forget it, this isn't the 90's anymore, ECU is not the ECU of old. They are now on the same level as Duke

[StillJonesing]

Dude, forget it, this isn't the 90's anymore, ECU is not the ECU of old. They are now on the same level as Duke


I'm glad you can see the future 10 years, but the FACT is we performed at a very high level for 10 years, it can be done again, no reason to think it can. We were already back to respectability again last year. Two bad years does not define a program.