Case Keenum vs. Chris Forcier (Eligibility)

[FurmanWins!!]

This deservers its own topic, I know it has been discussed but I would like an answer that makes sense from someone who has any ideas.

Why does the NCAA award Case Keenum (Houston) 6 years, when he is less deserving than Chris Forcier, I mean seriously please look at his bio, this is ridiculous that he gets 6 years but Chris is denied, maybe the paper work needs to be refiled and filled out properly because I do not understand when comparing these two scenarios:

Case Keenum Bio:
http://www.Uhcougars.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/keenum_case00.html


Chris Forcier Bio:
http://Furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2011-12/bios/forcier_chris_dpwn

[FurmanWins!!]

Case Keenum

Redshirt Senior (2011)
Passed for 310 yards, two touchdowns on 30-of-40 passing against UCLA . . . Rushed for 30 yards, picking up two first downs on seven carries in the season opener . . . Named C-USA Offensive Player of the Week by the league office (9-5-11) ... Rivals.com and C-USA Player of the Week (9-5-11) ...Ranks No. 9 in total offense (340.0), No. 30 in passing efficency (156.60). (Not fully updated, only through 1 game, has now played in 11 this season)

Senior (2010)
Threw for 274 yards and five touchdowns on 17-of-22 passing against Texas State during the season opener ... Finished with 279 yards on 15-of-24 passing against UTEP ... Was lost for the remainder of the season after tearing his ACL at UCLA.

Junior (2009)
Joined Texas Tech's Graham Harrell as the only players in NCAA Division I history to record multiple 5,000-yard passing seasons ... Set a school single-season record with 5,671 passing yards, the third-highest passing total in NCAA Division I-FBS single-season history ... Leader of the nation's No. 1 team in total offense, scoring offense and passing yards per game ... National leader in total offense and passing yards per game ... One of 10 players to start all 14 games ... Threw for 359 yards on 23-of-30 passing with four touchdowns in just more than a half against Northwestern State during the season opener ... Also added a 7-yard touchdown run late in the second quarter against the Demons ... Recorded 366 yards and three touchdowns on 32-of-46 passing at No. 5/6 Oklahoma State ... Scored the first points against the Cowboys with a 16-yard touchdown run early in the first quarter ... Also booted a 15-yard punt for the first kick of his career ... Honored as the Walter Camp Offensive Player of the Week following that performance ... Finished with 435 yards and a touchdown on 38-of-58 passing against Texas Tech ... Rushed eight times for 27 yards and gave the Cougars the lead for good with a 4-yard touchdown run with only 49 seconds left against the Red Raiders ... Threw for 536 yards and five touchdowns on 51-of-76 passing at C-USA rival UTEP ... Became only the fourth player in school history to throw for at least 500 yards in a game ... Set a UH single-game record for completions and tied the single-game record for attempts ... Accounted for 434 yards and four touchdowns on 39-of-52 passing at Mississippi State ... Threw for 371 yards and a pair of touchdowns on 33-of-46 passing at C-USA rival Tulane ... Threw for 559 yards and five touchdowns on 44-of-54 passing against C-USA rival Southern Miss ... Hit Patrick Edwards on a 28-yard touchdown with only 21 seconds remaining in the game to break the tie against the Golden Eagles ... Finished with 522 yards and three touchdowns on 40-of-60 passing at C-USA rival Tulsa ... Joined David Klingler and Andre Ware as the only players in school history to throw for at least 500 yards three times in a single season ... Posted 377 yards and three touchdowns on 33-of-56 passing at C-USA rival UCF ... Posted 405 yards and five touchdowns on 29-of-39 passing in little more than a half against C-USA rival Memphis ... Threw for 323 yards and two touchdowns and ran for another score in the first half against C-USA rival Rice during the regular-season finale. C-USA Championship Game: Threw for 527 yards and five touchdowns on 56-of-75 passing at East Carolina. Bell Helicopter Armed Forces Bowl: Tied a Houston single-season record when he competed in his 14th game against Air Force.

Sophomore (2008)
Became only the second player in school history to throw for 5,000 yards in a season... Ranked No. 1 nationally in total offense and No. 2 nationally in passing yards per game... Threw for at least 300 yards in a school-record 13 consecutive games dating back to 2007... Five 400-yard passing games, including each of the last three regular-season contests... Threw at least two touchdowns in all but one game... One of only eight players to start all 13 games ... Became just the seventh player in school history to throw for 400 yards in a game at No. 23 East Carolina ... Threw for 392 yards and five touchdowns on 33-of-43 passing to lead the offense during the season opener against Southern ... Set personal single-game highs in yards, touchdowns, attempts and completions ... Threw for 387 yards and four touchdowns on 35-of-61 passing at Oklahoma State ... Also led the Cougars with 81 rushing yards on nine carries against the Cowboys ... Posted 362 yards and four touchdown passes against Air Force in Dallas ... Also led the team with 75 rushing yards on only 10 carries ... Saw school-record streak of 219 passes without an interception snapped midway through the fourth quarter against the Falcons ... Threw for 380 yards and three touchdowns on 37-of-54 passing at Colorado State ... Recorded 401 yards and three touchdowns on 37-of-45 passing at No. 23 East Carolina ... Connected with Kierrie Johnson on an 84-yard touchdown catch early in the fourth quarter to seal the win against the Pirates ... Was the ninth-longest passing play in school history ... Posted 360 yards and a pair of touchdowns on 24-of-36 passing against C-USA rival UAB ... Connected with Patrick Edwards and Bryce Beall on 70-yard receptions and scored on a 1-yard run midway through the fourth quarter against the Blazers ... Threw for 404 yards and a pair of touchdowns on 28-of-36 passing at C-USA rival SMU ... Was his second 400-yard passing game in a three-week stretch ... Hit Tyron Carrier on a 26-yard touchdown with only 24 seconds remaining to give the Cougars the lead for good ... Led the Cougars on an eight-play, 85-yard drive that consumed 1:34 on their final drive against the Mustangs ... Threw for 317 yards and a pair of touchdowns on 22-of-41 passing at C-USA rival Marshall ... Recorded 384 yards and four touchdowns on 29-of-40 passing against C-USA rival Tulane during the annual Homecoming game ... Threw for 402 yards and six touchdowns and ran for another touchdown against No. 24 Tulsa ... Became the first player since Jimmy Klingler in 1992 to throw for at least six touchdowns in a game ... Scored on a 6-yard touchdown run early in the fourth quarter to cap the scoring against the Golden Hurricane ... Threw for a career-high 480 yards on 41-of-51 passing and three touchdowns and rushed for two more touchdowns in the Cougars' come-from-behind win against C-USA rival UTEP ... Gave the Cougars the lead for good with a 1-yard touchdown plunge with only 41 seconds remaining in the game ... Threw for a career-high 494 yards and five touchdowns on 30-of-54 passing against C-USA rival Rice. Bell Helicopter Armed Forces Bowl: Threw for 252 yards and a touchdown on 22-of-33 passing against Air Force ... Tied an Armed Forces Bowl record with a pair of rushing touchdowns.

Redshirt Freshman (2007)
Talented signal-caller who made his presence felt during his first season of collegiate competition... Competed in all 13 games with seven starts ... Team leader in passing yards, touchdown passes ... Ranked second on the team with nine rushing touchdowns and third with 414 rushing yards ... Made his first collegiate appearance at Oregon ... Threw for a game-high 179 yards and 14-of-27 passing with a touchdown ... Added 47 rushing yards on only nine carries against the Ducks ... Made his first start at Conference USA rival Tulane ... Finished with a game-high 185 yards and a touchdown on 13-of-21 passing against the Green Wave ... Accounted for four touchdowns (two rush, two pass) against Colorado State during the home opener ... Finished with 197 yards on 18-of-22 passing against the Rams ... Gave the Cougars the lead for good with an 8-yard touchdown run midway through the final period and iced the win with a 1-yard touchdown plunge late against CSU ... Also added 57 rushing yards on only 12 carries ... Honored as the CollegeSportsReport.com Division I-FBS National Performer of the Week after that effort ... Connected with Donnie Avery on a 64-yard touchdown against C-USA rival East Carolina ... Threw for 132 yards on 11-of-17 passing with a touchdown at Alabama ... Also added 34 rushing yards on 10 carries, including a 1-yard touchdown run against the Crimson Tide ... Scored on a 2-yard touchdown run early in the fourth quarter to pull the Cougars to within six points against Rice ... Scored on a 1-yard touchdown plunge at UAB ... rushed for two touchdowns and passed for one at UTEP ... Rushed for a career-best 72 yards on 10 carries and accounted for 116 yards on 13-of-20 passing against the Miners ... Threw for a career-best 264 yards with two touchdowns on 19-of-27 passing against SMU ... also rushed for 57 yards on 13 carries against the Mustangs ... Handed the Cougars a 17-point lead at halftime after hitting Jeron Harvey on a 14-yard touchdown pass with less than a minute remaining in the first half ... Iced the win against SMU with a 7-yard touchdown toss to Donnie Avery early in the fourth quarter ... Threw for 298 yards on 24-of-32 passing with a touchdown in win over C-USA rival Marshall ... Also added 44 rushing yards on eight carries, including a 1-yard touchdown, against the Thundering Herd ... Played less than a full quarter against Texas Southern during the regular-season finale but posted 121 yards and a touchdown on 8-of-9 passing... also scored on a 1-yard touchdown run late in the first quarter against the Tigers. Texas Bowl: Threw for 335 yards on 23-of-38 passing against TCU... was the third-highest total in UH bowl history... connected with Andre Kohn on a 67-yard pass late in the first quarter for the Cougars' lone touchdown... ranked as the fourth-longest pass in UH bowl history.

Freshman (2006)
Sat out as a redshirt.

[FurmanWins!!]

Chris Forcier

Furman: (fore-see-A)...2011 Expected to compete for the starting job this fall after missing virtually the entire 2010 campaign due to a shoulder injury...returned to the field in time for spring practice....joined the Furman program in June of 2009 following two seasons at UCLA where he redshirted in 2007 and played sparingly in a reserve role in 2008...participated in UCLA’s 2009 spring drills as a wide receiver prior to transferring to Furman...blessed with excellent speed. 2010 — Began the season as Furman’s starting quarterback, rushing seven times for 130 yards and completing 2-of-3 passes for 30 yards against Colgate (45-15 win)...performance versus Colgate included an 85-yard touchdown run, the sixth longest run in Furman football’s 105-year history, and his 130 rushing yards were the most by a Paladin quarterback since 1989...came off the bench the next week versus 13th-ranked South Carolina and rushed twice for 10 yards and completed one pass for 13 yards before sustaining a glenoid neck (shoulder) fracture in the second quarter...sat out the remainder of the season before returning to the field for spring practice. 2009 — Appeared in seven games as a reserve quarterback...completed 4-of-9 passes for 96 yards and a touchdown and rushed 23 times for 129 yards and score...registered seven carries for 41 yards, including a 25-yard touchdown run, against Appalachian State...came off the bench in the second half to complete 4-of-4 passes for 96 yards and a TD versus Auburn...scoring toss versus Auburn covered 17 yards to R.J. Webb...had a 27-yard run versus Chattanooga (38-20 win). 2008 — Saw limited action in seven games as a backup quarterback at UCLA...completed 3-of-11 passes for 22 yards and a touchdown...rushed 14 times for 33 yards...scoring strike went for nine yards against California...ran four times for 19 yards against Stanford. 2007 — Member of scout team (Redshirt awarded).

[StorminASU]

maybe it's his dad's fault?


http://www.qbforce.com/

[Reign of Terrier]

he should definitely file for it. But I'd rather he not

[FurmanWins!!]

he should definitely file for it. But I'd rather he not

I agree about him needing to file for it, even if he already has he should file again and present this comparison, when I look both cases over I can't help but think that Case is less deserving of a 6th year than Chris and he got awarded the 6th year, wish I could take this question straight to the NCAA :)

[T-Dog]

You forgot to include FACT! before each point.

[FurmanWins!!]

You forgot to include FACT! before each point.


Haha indeed, and in this case these really and truly are the facts!! :)

[T-Dog]

There's your solution right there. Forcier's dad should write the letter to the NCAA.

And if that fails.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ncaa+headquarters&ll=39.768816,-86.171501&spn=0.008956,0.013797&fb=1&gl=us&hq=ncaa+headquarters&cid=0,0,17443037048814376422&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=0&iwloc=A

[FurmanWins!!]

There's your solution right there. Forcier's dad should write the letter to the NCAA.

And if that fails.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ncaa+headquarters&ll=39.768816,-86.171501&spn=0.008956,0.013797&fb=1&gl=us&hq=ncaa+headquarters&cid=0,0,17443037048814376422&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=0&iwloc=A

Thanks, I just might have to put that address to use!

[FurmanWins!!]

Fact: :)

2011 FCS Passing Efficiency Leaders
http://www.Ncaa.com/stats/football/fcs/current/individual/1005

[OL FU]

Isn't the question, did anyone ask for one more year? IF not it's kinda like the PFL not getting an AQ all those years because they never ask for one

[FurmanWins!!]

Isn't the question, did anyone ask for one more year? IF not it's kinda like the PFL not getting an AQ all those years because they never ask for one

Lord knows we should, I can guarantee you that Chris would love to have another year after what he has battled through, no doubt about it!

[texcap]

Okay. I'm doing this from memory so some of the facts may be a little off.

The NCAA does not "award" six years of eligibility. It is up to the player's conference to determine whether a player will be entitled to a sixth year based on a medial condition. The guideline states that the player cannot play in more then 1/3 of the teams total games for the year before the injury occurred. In a normal 11 game year, that means that the player can only participate in 3 games.

What is the Southern Conference's policy on medical redshirts?

[eaglewraith]

Lord knows we should, I can guarantee you that Chris would love to have another year after what he has battled through, no doubt about it!

As far as I understand, you can't file for the 6th year until your eligbility is exhausted. I'm unsure if he's filed and had an answer already since his season just finished Saturday.

[FurmanWins!!]

As far as I understand, you can't file for the 6th year until your eligbility is exhausted. I'm unsure if he's filed and had an answer already since his season just finished Saturday.

I hope you are correct and the FU staff is on top of this now that the year is over.

[FurmanWins!!]

Okay. I'm doing this from memory so some of the facts may be a little off.

The NCAA does not "award" six years of eligibility. It is up to the player's conference to determine whether a player will be entitled to a sixth year based on a medial condition. The guideline states that the player cannot play in more then 1/3 of the teams total games for the year before the injury occurred. In a normal 11 game year, that means that the player can only participate in 3 games.

What is the Southern Conference's policy on medical redshirts?

Thanks for posting, very interesting, if this is the case then the SoCon guidelines are what we need to find out about.

[PaladinFan]

I'd be suprised if he does. I mean, besides another year in a Paladin uniform, what could he do next year that he didn't do this year? Keenum had Heisman hype all about him prior to getting injured. I can appreciate, especially being at a "system" school like Houston, that he'd want a second crack at turning the scouts heads.

Forcier pretty much did everything you can do statistically at the FCS level. I mean, he was every bit as impressive as Ingle Martin was, without the cast of all-Americans around him (Can you imagine West, Bratton, Felton, and that offensive line of the mid-2000s with Forcier under center? Yikes). I'm not sure he has much left to prove.

[FurmanWins!!]

I'd be suprised if he does. I mean, besides another year in a Paladin uniform, what could he do next year that he didn't do this year? Keenum had Heisman hype all about him prior to getting injured. I can appreciate, especially being at a "system" school like Houston, that he'd want a second crack at turning the scouts heads.

Forcier pretty much did everything you can do statistically at the FCS level. I mean, he was every bit as impressive as Ingle Martin was, without the cast of all-Americans around him (Can you imagine West, Bratton, Felton, and that offensive line of the mid-2000s with Forcier under center? Yikes). I'm not sure he has much left to prove.

I am sure he would love to lead FU to the playoffs, and the potential to become even better after his first full year of football could lead to even bigger stats and gaining NFL interest, without question he would have plenty to still achieve if given the chance to extend his football career.

[MplsBison]

Okay. I'm doing this from memory so some of the facts may be a little off.

The NCAA does not "award" six years of eligibility. It is up to the player's conference to determine whether a player will be entitled to a sixth year based on a medial condition. The guideline states that the player cannot play in more then 1/3 of the teams total games for the year before the injury occurred. In a normal 11 game year, that means that the player can only participate in 3 games.

What is the Southern Conference's policy on medical redshirts?

The NCAA gives football players a 5 year window to participate in up to 4 seasons. Under certain circumstances a 6th year can be added to the window.

If they determine that you've participated in your 4th season, then adding another year is a moot point.

[FurmanWins!!]

The NCAA gives football players a 5 year window to participate in up to 4 seasons. Under certain circumstances a 6th year can be added to the window.

If they determine that you've participated in your 4th season, then adding another year is a moot point.


Compare Case vs. Chris Bio's, Case was given a 6th season, Chris is in just about the exact same boat, he should be given another year just as Case was given another year.

[MplsBison]

Compare Case vs. Chris Bio's, Case was given a 6th season, Chris is in just about the exact same boat, he should be given another year just as Case was given another year.

I'm just providing some clarity on the rules. Players get 5 years to participate in 4 seasons. Obviously the NCAA decided that Case did not participate in two seasons of his (extended) 6 year window.

[FurmanWins!!]

2 years that did not count for Case:
1) Redshirt (2006)
2) Played in 3 games before season ending injury (2010)

2 years that should not count against Forcier:
1) Redshirt (2007)
2) Played in 2 games before season ending injury (2010)

[MplsBison]

Well...I guess that's what happens when you fracture your glenoid.

[FurmanWins!!]

Well...I guess that's what happens when you fracture your glenoid.

Indeed :)

[FurmanWins!!]

Expecting to hear some news out of the Furman camp on this matter fairly soon, if I would have been free I would have called into the darn Furman coaches show last night to ask Fowler myself.

[dgtw]

Nothing personal against Forcier, but I am opposed to a sixth year of eligibility for anybody. If you redshirt and then get hurt, that's your tough luck. Exactly why I would not vote for Keenum for the Heisman.

[tractorapp]

Expecting to hear some news out of the Furman camp on this matter fairly soon, if I would have been free I would have called into the darn Furman coaches show last night to ask Fowler myself.

As much as I hate to say it, I think he will be back. App WR Matt Cline was granted a sixth year and played for us in '10. No way NCAA could justify not giving Forcier a sixth year when faced with the Keenum comparison. Good job "wins".

[FurmanWins!!]

As much as I hate to say it, I think he will be back. App WR Matt Cline was granted a sixth year and played for us in '10. No way NCAA could justify not giving Forcier a sixth year when faced with the Keenum comparison. Good job "wins".

Thanks for your post Tractorapp and reminding me about Cline for you guys, yeah I guess we shall see soon enough how it is all going to shake out.

[eagle07]

Should have been a lawyer WINS

[PaladinFan]

Would be great to see, if for none other than selfish reasons. It would allow Furman to return a fantastic quarterback, and give one more year in the system to the eventual heir apparent. Forcier has played only one full season as a starter (redshirt and then mop up duty at UCLA, then a backup role and a season lost to injury), so maybe he has the fire to come back and lead the team one more year.

[MplsBison]

Nothing personal against Forcier, but I am opposed to a sixth year of eligibility for anybody. If you redshirt and then get hurt, that's your tough luck. Exactly why I would not vote for Keenum for the Heisman.

I would agree with you if the NCAA would allow players to participate in all 5 seasons of their 5 year windows. If that were the case, then I would be just fine with getting rid of medical extensions of the window to a 6th year.

But as is, with the stupid 4 in 5 rule that the NCAA maintains, I agree with allowing a 6th year to be added to the window.

[FurmanWins!!]

Should have been a lawyer WINS

Haha, I would need an outstanding secretary because my grammar is terrible, among other things :)

[FurmanWins!!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2tzVPRQUXA

[FurmanWins!!]

2012 is going to be fun!!