Did Illinois State and Delaware get screwed?

[biggriz]

Yes I understand the 7 D-1 win rule, but Eastern Kentucky getting in over Delaware and even Illinois State seemed a little questioning to me.xcoffeex

[NoDak 4 Ever]

ISUr did have the 7 DI wins with only one iffy loss. They do have a considerable beef and deserved more consideration than Delaware. I think had things gone a little differently yesterday the MVFC could have had a good showing.

[DJKyR0]

Delaware didn't, but ISU sure did. The Hens knew what they needed to do when they played a D-II and they didn't win enough D-I games. That's the chance you take when you schedule sub-DI's.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Delaware no, Ill. St. yes.

[AppMAN04]

Delaware no, Ill. St. yes.

Co-sign +1

[Cleets]

Delaware is right where they belong (in my opinion) Home for the winter...

[Mr. C]

As someone pointed out in another thread, EKU CRUSHED the Eastern Illinois team that thumped Illinois State.

Delaware can start playing a full D-I schedule and take care of business in the CAA if it wants to make the playoffs. The Blue Hens are a squad you shake your head at. This is a program that should be in the playoffs every year.

[superman7515]

You really have a hard-on for Delaware for some reason. And no, neither team got screwed.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I think pretty much all of the Delaware fans realized getting in this year was a long shot. It has nothing to do with the Westchester game. We should have beaten both URI and UMass handily, but didn't. Still, I think that if both UNH and JMU had lost their last game, we would have been in.

As far as EKU vs. Illinois State goes, I could see putting in three from the MVC before two from the OVC, but EKU does share part of the OVC Championship with TTU and JSU, and has the head to head vs JSU. EKU also kept it within 3 points vs. Kansas State in the first game of the season.

[Cincy App]

My projected bracket also had ISU in and EKU out. However, you put yourself at the mercy of the Committee if you are battling for the 20th spot as we have seen many times before. ISU needed to take care of business at home yesterday. They didn't. I don't really think that ISU has much to complain about given their 4 losses to FCS competition including yesterday's loss.

[GaSouthern]

Delaware did not deserve the playoffs.

ISU may have been the Woffed team this season.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Delaware did not deserve the playoffs.

ISU may have been the Woffed team this season.

Delaware is he highest ranked team not to make the playoffs. In fact, five teams ranked below UD made the field (though many of them were due to autobids). EKU is by far the lowest ranked team to make the field.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Delaware is he highest ranked team not to have 7 DI wins. In fact, five teams ranked below UD made the field (though many of them were due to autobids). EKU is by far the lowest ranked team to have 7 DI wins.

Fixed it for you

Moral of the story? Don't do the selection committee's work for them.

[Cocky]

No

[bjtheflamesfan]

ISUr had a chance to cement their place in the field and they wet the proverbial bed so no I dont think they got screwed...and I dont think Delaware was either

(Oh and to anyone who thinks I have some sour grapes about Liberty...they didnt deserve to go either)

[LehighU11]

Delaware screwed themselves over by scheduling a D2 school, losing to two conference teams with losing records (URI and UMass), and beating just 2 teams with winning records (ODU and Towson). Are they better than some of the teams in this field? Sure. But they didn't earn the right to play in the playoffs with an unimpressive 6-4 D-I record.

[Drblankstare]

Delaware screwed themselves over by scheduling a D2 school, losing to two conference teams with losing records (URI and UMass), and beating just 2 teams with winning records (ODU and Towson). Are they better than some of the teams in this field? Sure. But they didn't earn the right to play in the playoffs with an unimpressive 6-4 D-I record.

Agreed. Don't schedule D2's. Don't do it.

[AAadict]

Delaware AD inherited an annual with West Chester and did nothing to remove it. Credit to the JMU AD who should be eating a nice juicy steak tonight and raising a glass of vino. Delaware AD should be eating crow.

[caribbeanhen]

Credit to the JMU AD who should be eating a nice juicy steak tonight and raising a glass of vino. Delaware AD should be eating crow.

JMU AD answers to angry mob tonight on why the 25k seat stadium will be empty next week

[whitey]

Don't get us JMU fans wrong. We are ecstatic to be back in the playoffs.

Our AD has actually done a tremendous job, imo. JMU football is experiencing unprecedented success for the University during his tenure. Our other major sports have been doing extremely well (Womens' Basketball, Baseball, Soccer and even our Basketball team has been decent). JMU has built impressive new facilities for almost all sports including a brand new Baseball/Softball complex and the 25k+ Bridgeforth Stadium. Our AD was even able to schedule a neutral site game against a BCS team, West Virginia at Fedex Field next year. How many other FCS can say that?

All that being said, we're just looking for an explanation. As Duke Club donors and season ticket holders we were told that JMU put in an extremely competitive bid for all rounds. So if someone from our Athletic Department would just come out and say we bid this much but EKU put in a monster bid we'd be okay with that. All we want is some information.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Delaware AD inherited an annual with West Chester and did nothing to remove it. Credit to the JMU AD who should be eating a nice juicy steak tonight and raising a glass of vino. Delaware AD should be eating crow.

I'm not in love with Muir, but we should have just won one of the 4 games we lost and we wouldn't have this issue. URI or UMass were both very winnable and the team choked, pure and simple. Now, if the men's basketball team has another dissapointing season and Monte Ross isn't out on his *** at the end of it, I'm all for heading to Muir's office with pitchforks and torches.

[Tubby Raymond]

EKU being in is a joke. Delaware was not deserving, Illnii State got SCREWED

[Da Coach]

According to Redbirdfan.net, Illinois State should not be in the FCS, they should be in the Big 12 and the FBS!!! Losing to EIU the first week of the season sealed their deal. If you want to play in the post season, Win Baby, Win!! They did not beat anyone playing in the playoffs and had no big wins to make up for the devastating EIU loss.

[birdsflyhigh]

ISU's Redbirds got ABSOLUTELY screwed by the bonehead committee.

Four losses this season by an average of 6 points. A road loss to then #1 ranked NDSU and a 2 OT loss to #4 UNI. If the committee had bothered to look at the stats from the ISU/UNI game they'd have realized , ISU completely destroyed them in almost every catagory. It took a 41 yard field goal into the wind with 9 seconds left for the much vaunted Panthers to tie it, and then 2 OT for them to escape Hancock stadium by the skin of their teeth.

I was at ISU's Hancock stadium yesterday, and I witnessed TWO teams that could do serious damage in the playoffs. An earlier post said the Birds wet the bed against UNI....I call BS!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as the EIU loss, that is one of the longest played rivalries in football and almost EVERY team has a not-so-great game. It was a roadie in the first frickin game of the year....it happens folks.

So the #2 ranked FCS conference rates 2 teams in the playoffs? It's TOTAL BS!!!!!! I wish NDSU and UNI well in the playoffs, but I am so turned off by the obvious politics that were played to exclude ISU's Redbirds, that I'm done with FCS for the year.

I thought the NCAA really only screwed over mid-majors in college hoops....WRONG!!! Hello FCS committe... ISU deserved to be in the field!

[ekufbfan]

EKU being in is a joke. Delaware was not deserving, Illnii State got SCREWED
It would not have mattered if EKU were 11-0, there would be those such as TR with the same arrogant attitude regarding EKU.

[HensRock]

I'm not saying Delaware deserved to go this year - they did not - they knew what they had to do and didn't get it done.

However, the 7-DI win "rule", is really only a "rule of thumb" if you will. It's a guideline that states that teams with less than 7 DI wins place themselves "in jeopardy" of not being selected. That verbage was created for a 16 team field. Although this guildeline has never been broken, I think it should be re-examined now that the field is 20 and soon-to-be 24 teams. With a 24 team field, the committee might be hard-pressed to find enough teams with 7 DI wins to fill out the bracket!

[Squealofthepig]

I'm not saying Delaware deserved to go this year - they did not - they knew what they had to do and didn't get it done.

However, the 7-DI win "rule", is really only a "rule of thumb" if you will. It's a guideline that states that teams with less than 7 DI wins place themselves "in jeopardy" of not being selected. That verbage was created for a 16 team field. Although this guildeline has never been broken, I think it should be re-examined now that the field is 20 and soon-to-be 24 teams. With a 24 team field, the committee might be hard-pressed to find enough teams with 7 DI wins to fill out the bracket!

There was a surfeit of 7+ win teams (though not as many in major conferences as in previous years, so it does feel like there are less so). Two more teams in the OVC, several more in the MEAC, ISUr, Georgetown - it would have been easy to expand to 24 teams without breaking the 7 DI wins guideline this year.

There have been several opportunities in recent years for the selection committee to select a solid, six-win team for inclusion in the playoffs (including last year's Montana team); but I think the committee did the right thing in adhering to that rule.

I will agree that when the committee inevitably expands to 24 teams that six-win teams should get a more serious look; Delaware, Indiana State, Youngstown State and EWU would all be at least worthy of consideration in such a scenario this year.

Edit: And Furman, and others, etc. I posted elsewhere that you could have an incredibly enjoyable 8-team playoff with just the six D1 win teams this year.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Edit: And Furman, and others, etc. I posted elsewhere that you could have an incredibly enjoyable 8-team playoff with just the six D1 win teams this year.

The first annual FCS NIT.

[GaSouthern]

The BCS system screws the top 3-10 teams

The FCS system screws teams in the top 14-24 range

i'll take it, it's not perfect but if you take care of business during the regular season then you won't have any worries.

[bluehenbillk]

Delaware fans don't think we got screwed. If anything, we screwed ourselves scheduling West Chester & Navy in the same 11-game season.

[Houndawg]

ISUr did have the 7 DI wins with only one iffy loss. They do have a considerable beef and deserved more consideration than Delaware. I think had things gone a little differently yesterday the MVFC could have had a good showing.

The down side of parity....

[asumike83]

Delaware definitely did not. Fell short of 7 DI wins, only have their scheduling to blame.

Illinois State could have an argument over EKU after Youngstown State and Illinois State lost on the final day, but it is splitting hairs IMO. I don't think EKU or Illinois State had particularly impressive seasons, just a product of the 20-team field.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think it's interesting that people bring up UD as one of the top alternatives to EKU.

What about Furman? Furman is another team with 7 wins and 6 DI wins who has wins over two playoff teams and also played Florida closer than UD did Navy.

[Houndawg]

ISU's Redbirds got ABSOLUTELY screwed by the bonehead committee.

Four losses this season by an average of 6 points. A road loss to then #1 ranked NDSU and a 2 OT loss to #4 UNI. If the committee had bothered to look at the stats from the ISU/UNI game they'd have realized , ISU completely destroyed them in almost every catagory. It took a 41 yard field goal into the wind with 9 seconds left for the much vaunted Panthers to tie it, and then 2 OT for them to escape Hancock stadium by the skin of their teeth.

I was at ISU's Hancock stadium yesterday, and I witnessed TWO teams that could do serious damage in the playoffs. An earlier post said the Birds wet the bed against UNI....I call BS!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as the EIU loss, that is one of the longest played rivalries in football and almost EVERY team has a not-so-great game. It was a roadie in the first frickin game of the year....it happens folks.

So the #2 ranked FCS conference rates 2 teams in the playoffs? It's TOTAL BS!!!!!! I wish NDSU and UNI well in the playoffs, but I am so turned off by the obvious politics that were played to exclude ISU's Redbirds, that I'm done with FCS for the year.

I thought the NCAA really only screwed over mid-majors in college hoops....WRONG!!! Hello FCS committe... ISU deserved to be in the field!

About every team that has been to the dance more than once can tell a tale of getting screwed by the committee on selection or travel. ISU probably has a case to argue for getting woffed, but the fact is that they didn't beat anybody of note and have a stinker of a loss to EIU, which was probably refreshed in the committee's mind after EIU got stomped by SIU last week. Hell, SIU was 10-1 and ranked 2nd a few years ago and got rewarded with a first round road trip to Delaware. Buck up there, Binky.

[asumike83]

I think it's interesting that people bring up UD as one of the top alternatives to EKU.

What about Furman? Furman is another team with 7 wins and 6 DI wins who has wins over two playoff teams and also played Florida closer than UD did Navy.

Unfortunately, Furman only finished 6-5. That final loss at home to Elon killed them. Otherwise, I have no doubt the SoCon would have put 4 in the field for the first time.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Unfortunately, Furman only finished 6-5. That final loss at home to Elon killed them. Otherwise, I have no doubt the SoCon would have put 4 in the field for the first time.

too much pooch screwing on the final day. A remarkable amount of choking made this playoff field look like it does.

[asumike83]

too much pooch screwing on the final day. A remarkable amount of choking made this playoff field look like it does.

Right you are. Furman and Youngstown State would have made nice additions. Too bad they could not get it done despite finishing at home against sub .500 teams.

[GannonFan]

UD didn't deserve to get in, and I don't think you'll find many, if any UD fans that would say they did. West Chester is actually a harder matchup than many of the DI schools we could've scheduled (we had West Chester and Delaware St back to back and West Chester would be a two TD favorite against DSU) - the moral of the story is, just don't schedule a DII. And the positive is our schedule would be even easier if we replace West Chester with a bottom feeding FCS school. Why we don't do this is almost mind-boggling.

With that said, you should almost never, ever pick a second OVC team. EKU just didn't belong, but obvioulsy the attractive bid they put in to host certainly played a factor in them getting in over other, non-UD possibilities.

[Redbird Ray]

Illinois State without a doubt got screwed big time.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt11.htm?loc=interstitialskip

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc11.htm

Highest rated Sagarin conference in FCS. Higher rating than the Sun Belt. Team rating of #107 over other teams in the field such as Maine, New Hampshire, Old Dominion, James Madison and Eastern Kentucky.

Avg loss by 6 pts for the season. 5-1 down the stretch in what was widely considered to be the best conference in the country this year. Took the #4 team in the country to double OT in final "play-in" game. I doubt many others in the field could play as tough against UNI and NDSU as ISU did this year. And don't give me any arguments about other MVFC play-in games hurting ISU's chances. The fact that the bottom of our league could probably compete in the top third in many other leagues should have only helped ISUR's, ISUB's, and YSU's causes.

Yeah, we had a horrible loss to EIU in the first week. EKU had an equally crappy loss to Austin Peay. Against Missouri State, EKU won by 4, ISU won by 25.

JMU beats one team with a winning record all year and gets in, and losses to a handful of teams that would have been lucky to finish with a winning record in the MVFC this season.

THE ONLY reason JMU and EKU are in the playoffs is because both schools had representation on the selection committee. Total BS.

[URMite]

Illinois State without a doubt got screwed big time.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt11.htm?loc=interstitialskip

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc11.htm

Highest rated Sagarin conference in FCS. Higher rating than the Sun Belt. Team rating of #107 over other teams in the field such as Maine, New Hampshire, Old Dominion, James Madison and Eastern Kentucky.

Avg loss by 6 pts for the season. 5-1 down the stretch in what was widely considered to be the best conference in the country this year. Took the #4 team in the country to double OT in final "play-in" game. I doubt many others in the field could play as tough against UNI and NDSU as ISU did this year. And don't give me any arguments about other MVFC play-in games hurting ISU's chances. The fact that the bottom of our league could probably compete in the top third in many other leagues should have only helped ISUR's, ISUB's, and YSU's causes.

Yeah, we had a horrible loss to EIU in the first week. EKU had an equally crappy loss to Austin Peay. Against Missouri State, EKU won by 4, ISU won by 25.

JMU beats one team with a winning record all year and gets in, and losses to a handful of teams that would have been lucky to finish with a winning record in the MVFC this season.

THE ONLY reason JMU and EKU are in the playoffs is because both schools had representation on the selection committee. Total BS.

Which of JMU's losses would have a losing record in the MVC (UNC, UNH, ODU, Maine)? Now their wins you can argue about...

[Tubby Raymond]

Illinois State without a doubt got screwed big time.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt11.htm?loc=interstitialskip

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc11.htm

Highest rated Sagarin conference in FCS. Higher rating than the Sun Belt. Team rating of #107 over other teams in the field such as Maine, New Hampshire, Old Dominion, James Madison and Eastern Kentucky.

Avg loss by 6 pts for the season. 5-1 down the stretch in what was widely considered to be the best conference in the country this year. Took the #4 team in the country to double OT in final "play-in" game. I doubt many others in the field could play as tough against UNI and NDSU as ISU did this year. And don't give me any arguments about other MVFC play-in games hurting ISU's chances. The fact that the bottom of our league could probably compete in the top third in many other leagues should have only helped ISUR's, ISUB's, and YSU's causes.

Yeah, we had a horrible loss to EIU in the first week. EKU had an equally crappy loss to Austin Peay. Against Missouri State, EKU won by 4, ISU won by 25.

JMU beats one team with a winning record all year and gets in, and losses to a handful of teams that would have been lucky to finish with a winning record in the MVFC this season.

THE ONLY reason JMU and EKU are in the playoffs is because both schools had representation on the selection committee. Total BS.

JMU is in the playoffs becasue they had 7 D-1 wins in the toughest conferance in the FCS.

I feel for ya but... you need to go in a differnt direction (EKU) with your righeous indignation than to turn it towards UD>

[whitey]

Wow....Richmond and Delaware fans defending JMU's inclusion in the playoffs in back to back posts. Hell freezing over? :-) While JMU and EKU were #19 and #20 respectively JMU didn't take your spot.

[JSUBison]

This talk about a 24 team playoff sometime in the future, how does that number come to be? If the Pioneer gets an autobid that puts it at 22 teams, so who is the other conference?

[whitey]

Also, while your AD was not on the Selection Committee he was on the Regional Advisory Committee which does have input all year long. So stop with the conspiracy theories. JMU had zero bad losses and was 7-3 in FCS competition. ISU had one bad loss and was 7-4 in FCS competition. Right or wrong, everyone knows the Selection Committee views FBS games differently.

Regional Advisory Committees
[Reference: Regional Advisory Committees in the Division I General Section and Bylaws
21.4.1.4 and 21.5.1.6 in the NCAA Manual.]
The following are the regional advisory committees that have been appointed in each of
their respective regions to assist in the evaluation of teams throughout the season:
Central
Mark Sandy, Eastern Kentucky University, chair
Barbara Burke, Eastern Illinois University
Mike Cigelman, Drake University
Phil Dane, University of Tennessee at Martin
Ron Strollo, Youngstown State University
Tim Wabler, University of Dayton
Sheahon Zenger, Illinois State University

[Cocky]

Wow....Richmond and Delaware fans defending JMU's inclusion in the playoffs in back to back posts. Hell freezing over? :-) While JMU and EKU were #19 and #20 respectively JMU didn't take your spot.
Neither EKU or JMU took ISU's spot, the correct teams are in the playoffs.

[superman7515]

This talk about a 24 team playoff sometime in the future, how does that number come to be? If the Pioneer gets an autobid that puts it at 22 teams, so who is the other conference?

There won't be another conference. If the Pioneer gets the autobid, there will be three at-large added. If not, there will be four at-large added. It's already been brought up so that it can be voted on this offseason. Some are pushing for it to start in 2012, others leaning towards 2013.

[ekufbfan]

EKU is in, give it a break fellows. We have been in the playoff 20 times and believe me we have been in a position many of those times that we thought (as did others) that we got "woofed", screwed, call it what you will. But there is no good reason that ISU should have been in over us. Every year there are those who make and it and those who don't (we have been there too) and always someone who whines.
I was/am totally surprised that we got home game (a good bid)..
As far as ESPN? There is no conspiracy here, we were lucky and I think it had everything to do with espn choosing which game they wanted to broadcast. I am dismayed about what kind of attendance we may have (Thanksgiving and students away) and UK plays U of Tennessee (their big rival) a 20 minute drive up the interstate around the same time (and no way around it, that will hurt).EKU is the benefactor of the choices made not the bad guy, no need to keep up all unjustified attacks on EKU.

[Redbird Ray]

Which of JMU's losses would have a losing record in the MVC (UNC, UNH, ODU, Maine)? Now their wins you can argue about...

I would put the MVFC's top 5 against UNH, ODU, and Maine any day of the week.

[Redbird Ray]

Neither EKU or JMU took ISU's spot, the correct teams are in the playoffs.

I love your passion for your conference, but you couldn't be more wrong. Missouri State was the second worst team in the MVFC this year, and they basically played an even game with EKU.

Sagarin has the two leagues separated by 11 points!!!!! That's like saying the MVFC is on par with the Mountain West or the Big East. Just not true. The MVFC deserved at least 3 teams in the field. No way in hell the CAA deserved 5 this year. Almost every other year, yes, but not this year.

[ekufbfan]

I love your passion for your conference, but you couldn't be more wrong. Missouri State was the second worst team in the MVFC this year, and they basically played an even game with EKU.

Sagarin has the two leagues separated by 11 points!!!!! That's like saying the MVFC is on par with the Mountain West or the Big East. Just not true. The MVFC deserved at least 3 teams in the field. No way in hell the CAA deserved 5 this year. Almost every other year, yes, but not this year.
Let's say that's a legit point. So tell me then how the EKU game against Kansas State plays into your argument (KSU beat EKU 10-7 on a last minute TD in the fourth quarter and had they not thrown a long TD pass in the last minutes to secure the win we would be sitting here with W against a Big 12 team). You want to pick out one game against Missouri State, so ponder this, didn't ISU LOSE (your team didn't "basically play an even game" with EIU, you lost!) to EIU the team we thrashed and who finished near the bottom of the "weak" OVC (using your words, "the second worse team in" the OVC)? You see your argument really holds no merit other than "you think" you play in a better conference and thus deserve the bid.
It's done, move on.

[GoColonels!]

I have to agree with ekufbfan, Redbird. If your argument rests on strength of conference, then ISU getting throttled by the 2nd worst team in the OVC--a team that we beat handily--ends the discussion, I believe. I think that most neutral observers would say that, had they been on the selection committee, they would have chosen EKU's resume over ISU's--mostly on strength of performance against the teams' two common opponents. And having been at EKU's game against Missouri State, I wouldn't exactly say that the final score was all that indicative of the game I watched. Yes, Missouri State scored a late touchdown with under two minutes left to make it closer than I would have liked, but they never led, and EKU really was in control most of the way.

[Redbird Ray]

Illinois State Record of teams we beat: 28-49 (.364)
Eastern Kentucky Record of teams they beat: 31-46 (.403)
-stems from easy non-cons their opponents had, but advantage EKU

Illinois State Record of teams we lost to: 27-17 (.614)
Eastern Kentucky Record of teams they lost to: 24-19 (.558)
-shows toughness of opponents in our 4 losses compared to theirs, advantage ISU

Illinois State Overall record of opponents: 55-66 (.454)
Eastern Kentucky Overall record of opponents: 55-65 (.458)
-no difference, except our opponents played and lost one more game, PUSH

Illinois State Average Saragin of teams we beat: 159.71
Eastern Kentucky Average Saragin of teams they beat: 176.71
-teams we beat averaged higher on the Saragin ranking system, advantage ISU

Illinois State Average Saragin of teams we lost to: 111.75
Eastern Kentucky Average Saragin of teams they lost to: 122.75
-teams we lost to averaged higher on the Saragin ranking system (even with Kansas State for EKU), advantage ISU

Illinois State Overall Average Saragin of opponents: 142.27
Eastern Kentucky Overall Average Saragin of opponents: 157.09
-overall strength of schedule higher for us, advantage ISU

Illinois State Best Saragin win: 117
Eastern Kentucky Best Saragin win: 158
-our best win was better than their best win, advantage ISU

Illinois State Worst Saragin loss: 197
Eastern Kentucky Worst Saragin loss: 217
-our worst loss was better than their worst loss, advantage ISU


Verdict: 6-1-1 for Illinois State

Translation: We had better wins, we had better losses, and played better competition overall. We ended with the same record with a tougher schedule. Remind me again why EKU got chosen over us???

[Redhawk2010]

Because computers are perfect systems, you know? And that's where most of your numbers come from.. Good argument.

[asumike83]

# of FCS losses
EKU: 3
ISU: 4

I think that was a big factor, as well as playing the #11 FBS team down to the wire at their place. If you want to get a bid with 4 FCS losses then you need a real marquee win, which ISU does not have.

[ekufbfan]

Illinois State Record of teams we beat: 28-49 (.364)
Eastern Kentucky Record of teams they beat: 31-46 (.403)
-stems from easy non-cons their opponents had, but advantage EKU

Illinois State Record of teams we lost to: 27-17 (.614)
Eastern Kentucky Record of teams they lost to: 24-19 (.558)
-shows toughness of opponents in our 4 losses compared to theirs, advantage ISU

Illinois State Overall record of opponents: 55-66 (.454)
Eastern Kentucky Overall record of opponents: 55-65 (.458)
-no difference, except our opponents played and lost one more game, PUSH

Illinois State Average Saragin of teams we beat: 159.71
Eastern Kentucky Average Saragin of teams they beat: 176.71
-teams we beat averaged higher on the Saragin ranking system, advantage ISU

Illinois State Average Saragin of teams we lost to: 111.75
Eastern Kentucky Average Saragin of teams they lost to: 122.75
-teams we lost to averaged higher on the Saragin ranking system (even with Kansas State for EKU), advantage ISU

Illinois State Overall Average Saragin of opponents: 142.27
Eastern Kentucky Overall Average Saragin of opponents: 157.09
-overall strength of schedule higher for us, advantage ISU

Illinois State Best Saragin win: 117
Eastern Kentucky Best Saragin win: 158
-our best win was better than their best win, advantage ISU

Illinois State Worst Saragin loss: 197
Eastern Kentucky Worst Saragin loss: 217
-our worst loss was better than their worst loss, advantage ISU


Verdict: 6-1-1 for Illinois State

Translation: We had better wins, we had better losses, and played better competition overall. We ended with the same record with a tougher schedule. Remind me again why EKU got chosen over us???

Whine on..............
My dog's bigger than your dog.xslapfightx

(Oh and my favorite line, "we had better losses": a loss is a loss my friend, I have never sized them up on who had better ones than others until I read this crap on here, too funny)
.

[Houndawg]

Illinois State without a doubt got screwed big time.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt11.htm?loc=interstitialskip

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc11.htm

Highest rated Sagarin conference in FCS. Higher rating than the Sun Belt. Team rating of #107 over other teams in the field such as Maine, New Hampshire, Old Dominion, James Madison and Eastern Kentucky.

Avg loss by 6 pts for the season. 5-1 down the stretch in what was widely considered to be the best conference in the country this year. Took the #4 team in the country to double OT in final "play-in" game. I doubt many others in the field could play as tough against UNI and NDSU as ISU did this year. And don't give me any arguments about other MVFC play-in games hurting ISU's chances. The fact that the bottom of our league could probably compete in the top third in many other leagues should have only helped ISUR's, ISUB's, and YSU's causes.

Yeah, we had a horrible loss to EIU in the first week. EKU had an equally crappy loss to Austin Peay. Against Missouri State, EKU won by 4, ISU won by 25.

JMU beats one team with a winning record all year and gets in, and losses to a handful of teams that would have been lucky to finish with a winning record in the MVFC this season.

THE ONLY reason JMU and EKU are in the playoffs is because both schools had representation on the selection committee. Total BS.

I don't think you can hang your hat on playing UNI and NDSU tough, SIU played them tough too.

[Cocky]

I love your passion for your conference, but you couldn't be more wrong. Missouri State was the second worst team in the MVFC this year, and they basically played an even game with EKU.

Sagarin has the two leagues separated by 11 points!!!!! That's like saying the MVFC is on par with the Mountain West or the Big East. Just not true. The MVFC deserved at least 3 teams in the field. No way in hell the CAA deserved 5 this year. Almost every other year, yes, but not this year.

Its not conference passion the correct teams are in the playoffs. JSU has as much reason to be upset as ISU. We didnt win the games we should have and neither did ISU, Delaware or anyone else who didnt get in.

[ekufbfan]

And we (EKU) lost a few we should have won. We win just one of those two, we are the ONLY 2011 OVC Champs (no three way tie...ifs and buts were candy and nuts, well you know the rest

[Jacked_Rabbit]

ISU(R) GOT F'D IN THE A.

[AmsterBison]

As someone pointed out in another thread, EKU CRUSHED the Eastern Illinois team that thumped Illinois State.

If you are going to go by comparative scores:

EKU 28, Missouri State 24 (playing at EKU)
Illinois State 38, Missouri State 13 (playing at Missouri State)

[Cocky]

ISU(R) GOT F'D IN THE A.

By ISU

[Cocky]

If you are going to go by comparative scores:

EKU 28, Missouri State 24 (playing at EKU)
Illinois State 38, Missouri State 13 (playing at Missouri State)
Win win trumps loss win

[ekufbfan]

If you are going to go by comparative scores:

EKU 28, Missouri State 24 (playing at EKU)
Illinois State 38, Missouri State 13 (playing at Missouri State)

ENOUGH! this has been rehashed a dozen times. BTW, ISU started the score comparison and could not make a good argument for gettting in on that. Go back and read Bison.

[GSU Eagle]

Delaware just does not have an argument. Like it or not the rule (whether written or not) is that a team needs 7 FCS wins to get real consideration. Delaware did not-- end of discussion there.

[superman7515]

Delaware just does not have an argument. Like it or not the rule (whether written or not) is that a team needs 7 FCS wins to get real consideration. Delaware did not-- end of discussion there.

So far not one single person has said otherwise... xeyebrowx

[apaladin]

JMU had one win vs. a team with a winning record(7-4 Liberty). It's obvious the 7 wins means the most without regards to quality wins. So should everyone try to schedule the Savannah States and Charleston Southern's of the world? Sure looks like it.

[Redbird Ray]

Because computers are perfect systems, you know? And that's where most of your numbers come from.. Good argument.

If you want to break it down to strictly FCS terms and polls then fine. A team that was not ranked in any FCS poll going into and coming out of the final week of play leap frogged a team that was ranked in the middle of most FCS polls for the final third of the season. How the hell does that happen without some shady frickin stuff going on?

I forgot that most OVC schools probably don't offer classes in statistics, because I'm sure that counting the rest of your fingers, toes, and teeth is all the arithmetic most OVC scholars need to get them through their pending careers at Wal-Mart.

[asumike83]

JMU had one win vs. a team with a winning record(7-4 Liberty). It's obvious the 7 wins means the most without regards to quality wins. So should everyone try to schedule the Savannah States and Charleston Southern's of the world? Sure looks like it.

7 D1 wins has always been the minimum. If FU doesn't lose to Coastal, they are in the field without question.

[Cocky]

If you want to break it down to strictly FCS terms and polls then fine. A team that was not ranked in any FCS poll going into and coming out of the final week of play leap frogged a team that was ranked in the middle of most FCS polls for the final third of the season. How the hell does that happen without some shady frickin stuff going on?

I forgot that most OVC schools probably don't offer classes in statistics, because I'm sure that counting the rest of your fingers, toes, and teeth is all the arithmetic most OVC scholars need to get them through their pending careers at Wal-Mart.

So Wal Mart not ESPN got EKU in?

[Ivytalk]

So far not one single person has said otherwise... xeyebrowx

The News-Urinal agreed this morning! Blamed the former UD president Roselle (a West Chester alum) and AD!xdeadhorsex

[EKUSteve]

So Wal Mart not ESPN got EKU in?

Redbird Ray, what a joke of a response.
Your school gets passed over, so you insult all the OVC schools as being attended hicks?? Real classy..

[89rabbit]

I saw this over on our board and thought it was an interesting read:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/79-college-sports-journal/chuck-burton/107-was-it-espn-that-chose-eastern-kentucky-for-the-field

Was it ESPN That Chose Eastern Kentucky for the FCS Playoffs?


By Chuck Burton

Publisher/Managing Editor

College Sports Journal



PHILADELPHIA, PA. — At the FCS level, college football fans like to picture their pristine subdivision free of the political wrangling that seems to dominate the headlines in the BCS, with its crazy computer polls and politicking for position.



They groan about the inordinate influence TV has on the outcomes of the bowls, and moan that some team in a conference deserved to be in a particular bowl, and another team was unfairly shut out.



But after seeing the shock of the final team in the FCS Playoff field this weekend, I think it's time to revise FCS college football fans' thinking of the selection process.



For television and politics seem to be very much present as well in FCS in terms of the selection process - as fans of 7-4 Illinois State discovered to their detriment. . . . . (read more)

[whitey]

I saw this over on our board and thought it was an interesting read:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/79-college-sports-journal/chuck-burton/107-was-it-espn-that-chose-eastern-kentucky-for-the-field

Was it ESPN That Chose Eastern Kentucky for the FCS Playoffs?


By Chuck Burton

Publisher/Managing Editor

College Sports Journal



PHILADELPHIA, PA. — At the FCS level, college football fans like to picture their pristine subdivision free of the political wrangling that seems to dominate the headlines in the BCS, with its crazy computer polls and politicking for position.



They groan about the inordinate influence TV has on the outcomes of the bowls, and moan that some team in a conference deserved to be in a particular bowl, and another team was unfairly shut out.



But after seeing the shock of the final team in the FCS Playoff field this weekend, I think it's time to revise FCS college football fans' thinking of the selection process.



For television and politics seem to be very much present as well in FCS in terms of the selection process - as fans of 7-4 Illinois State discovered to their detriment. . . . . (read more)


That has already been addressed in other threads. The article, if you could call it that, contains barely a shred of factual basis. Starting with the humongous error in that the basketball game is not on ESPN but is on Fox Sports.

[EKUSteve]

That has already been addressed in other threads. The article, if you could call it that, contains barely a shred of factual basis. Starting with the humongous error in that the basketball game is not on ESPN but is on Fox Sports.

I think they saw that the game will be on ESPN3 and assumed. Bad thing to assume....

[Redbird Ray]

So Wal Mart not ESPN got EKU in?

I've never given the ESPN theory any merit. Like I said before, EKU and JMU made a deal to get into the playoffs. EKU paid to get their way into the field. I'm sure it happens every year, but that doesn't make it right.

[Redbird Ray]

Redbird Ray, what a joke of a response.
Your school gets passed over, so you insult all the OVC schools as being attended hicks?? Real classy..

You're right that was a bit too harsh on my part. I'm sorry. ISU fans in Chicago are not having a good football week. And obviously, EKU has a fine economics department.

[semobison]

I dont know about the conspiricy theories, but ISU got left out in favor of an inferior team! Bottom Line!

[Redhawk2010]

Redbird Ray, what a joke of a response.
Your school gets passed over, so you insult all the OVC schools as being attended hicks?? Real classy..

You know what's funny about that.. Illinois State is right in the middle of hicktown USA! Normal has a professional baseball team called the Cornbelters and their stadium is called the Corn Crib!

[Redbird Ray]

You know what's funny about that.. Illinois State is right in the middle of hicktown USA! Normal has a professional baseball team called the Cornhuskers and their stadium is called the Corn Crib!

Hey now...I love me some Cornbelters. One of the best mascots in professional baseball.

Normal isn't too bad. Have you seen our commercial? Pretty sweet xlolx

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/mitsubishi-i-commercial-new-normal-video-39524.html

[Redhawk2010]

Ooops.. had that mascot wrong! Just typed it wrong is all..

I've been to Bloomington a few times. I actually could be on your side of the argument, but I turned down that opportunity last spring..

[Cocky]

I dont know about the conspiricy theories, but ISU got left out in favor of an inferior team! Bottom Line!

EIU should be in the playoffs?

[EKUSteve]

When we got in the playoffs in 1981 over South Carolina St. their AD was livid and was raising cain at the football meetings. Our AD finally looked at him and said, "If you think you can beat us, play us."

I would say the same here. ISU should contact our AD about an home and home.

[whitey]

I've never given the ESPN theory any merit. Like I said before, EKU and JMU made a deal to get into the playoffs..

LOL. Why can't you grasp the fact that ISU did not deserve to get in over JMU?

[Cocky]

LOL. Why can't you grasp the fact that ISU did not deserve to get in over JMU?

Or EKU

[Redbird Ray]

LOL. Why can't you grasp the fact that ISU did not deserve to get in over JMU?

Because ISU finished with a higher standing in a higher rated conference than JMU did. And because basically every poll in the media thinks that ISU is better.

Other than that, you're totally right xsmileyclapx

[Redbird Ray]

When we got in the playoffs in 1981 over South Carolina St. their AD was livid and was raising cain at the football meetings. Our AD finally looked at him and said, "If you think you can beat us, play us."

I would say the same here. ISU should contact our AD about an home and home.

Would love to, but I think our schedule is booked the next 3 years.

[asumike83]

Because ISU finished with a higher standing in a higher rated conference than JMU did. And because basically every poll in the media thinks that ISU is better.

Other than that, you're totally right xsmileyclapx

Some folks put more value in the computer rankings than I do, but I think the CAA is better top to bottom than the MVFC. However, UNI/NDSU is probably the best 1-2 of any conference, which is likely why the computers rank it higher.

4 FCS losses (one of which was a very bad one) did y'all in. Had you you beaten YSU or at least Eastern Illinois, you'd have been in the field. I think ISU and EKU are pretty much even and you could make a case for either one but the fact is, neither did enough to make themselves a no-brainer even after some upsets on the final day. If you leave it in the hands of the committee, they will take the team who is 7-3 vs. FCS competition with a better record against mutual opponents over the team with 4 FCS losses more often than not.

It is a tough break for you guys but with the minimum amount of wins, an ugly loss and no marquee victories, it was basically a coin-flip left up to the committee.

[whitey]

You don't understand that it was your extremely weak OOC schedule that kept you out of the playoffs. Everyone knows the committee rewards teams that play an FBS opponent even if it's a loss. ISU did not play a I-A team and JMU and EKU did. Additionally, ISU scheduled a non-scholly Pioneer team and a FCS transitional. Weak. You also lost your one OOC game against a full scholarship which happened to be the LAST place OVC team, a team that EKU handled easily.

This isn't a MVC vs. CAA/OVC debate. It's a full body of work debate and ISU comes out on the short end of the stick, albeit barely.

[Da Coach]

Notice there are a lot of ISU posters on this thread, but none on "Greatest Playoff Memories" thread!! Hmmmmm....

[dgtw]

That has already been addressed in other threads. The article, if you could call it that, contains barely a shred of factual basis. Starting with the humongous error in that the basketball game is not on ESPN but is on Fox Sports.

Ending with the fact TPTB at ESPN don't care about the FCS or who is playing in them and are likely only vaguely aware they exist at all.

[GridCaptain]

Everyone in Blue Hen Country can thank the Golden Rams of West Chester and that wonderful traditional series for your being home in the postseason. Go Golden Rams! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7GYnC_qSOc

[lehighfball]

Everyone in Blue Hen Country can thank the Golden Rams of West Chester and that wonderful traditional series for your being home in the postseason. Go Golden Rams! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7GYnC_qSOc

Everyone in Blue Hen Country can thank the Blue Hens for losing to R.I. and Massachusetts for being home in the postseason.xrolleyesx

[GridCaptain]

True dat, but if you play an FCS school, say Lehigh, and beat them which Delaware would have, instead of playing an automatic win in West Chester, then you make the field of 20.

[lehighfball]

True dat, but if you play an FCS school, say Lehigh, and beat them which Delaware would have, instead of playing an automatic win in West Chester, then you make the field of 20.

Delaware wouldn't stand a chance against Lehigh this year. Delaware sucked.

[GridCaptain]

Opinion. Lehigh has played no one all year save for UNH, to whom they lost. Overtime or not, they had one game against a real opponent and they failed to achieve a win.

[lehighfball]

Opinion. Lehigh has played no one all year save for UNH, to whom they lost. Overtime or not, they had one game against a real opponent and they failed to achieve a win.

Delaware barely beat Villanova's fresman team this year and they didn't even come close to crushing DII West Chester.

[GridCaptain]

By the time UD played Nova their season was in the tank - it was the last game of the season last Saturday. Going from the FCS title game to the Chester Stadium Bowl against a bad Wildcats' team does not inspire a team to play off the hook.

Lehigh and the Patriot League = second tier FCS football. You do not like that, but it is the case. Pioneer League is more your speed.

[caribbeanhen]

True dat, but if you play an FCS school, say Lehigh, and beat them which Delaware would have, instead of playing an automatic win in West Chester, then you make the field of 20.

I think Lehigh beats Delaware this year... even though the Hens won big on the scoreboard in last years playoff game, Lehigh showed some mojo in that game

[caribbeanhen]

Delaware wouldn't stand a chance against Lehigh this year. Delaware sucked.

I'll take that, but they still finished in the top 20 in several polls, just sucked for a Delaware team right

[ekufbfan]

When we got in the playoffs in 1981 ovplaer South Carolina St. their AD was livid and was raising cain at the football meetings. Our AD finally looked at him and said, "If you think you can beat us, play us."

I would say the same here. ISU should contact our AD about an home and home.

Amen. You think you can beat us, play us. We may get our azzzes handed to us today, but that still does not mean ISU would have done the same. Sick of ISU whining, you guys have taken the WHINE prize. You can use statistics to prove (or disprove anything....surely you learned that in your "Ivy League" stats class?). Same with rankings, rankings are just opinions, you prove it on the field. Whoever wins today, clearly has the better team today (and that proves nothing about ISU!). Quit whining.

[caribbeanhen]

I think Lehigh beats Delaware this year... even though the Hens won big on the scoreboard in last years playoff game, Lehigh showed some mojo in that game

me thinks they can beat NDST next week as well

[Redbird 4th & short]

Delaware no, Ill. St. yes.

oh snap Ursus !

[clenz]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Gkb1UeZ1gUc/maxresdefault.jpg

[BisonTru]

me thinks they can beat NDST next week as well

xrotatehx

[WestCoastAggie]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Gkb1UeZ1gUc/maxresdefault.jpg

xlolx

[Redbird 4th & short]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Gkb1UeZ1gUc/maxresdefault.jpg

love the irony of clenz brow beating me for my perfectly civil disagreement with ursus.

clenz, I've seen many of your rants and sh-t shows .. heal thyself.

[clenz]

That's the thing

When I think you've gone too far think how far you've truly freaking gone.

Let that sink in.

[Redbird 4th & short]

That's the thing

When I think you've gone too far think how far you've truly freaking gone.

Let that sink in.
I'll give you a touche' for that.

But I aint wrong about 2011 or the nonsense that has gone on with FCS selection committee. I would love to have a couple beers with DE Coach Rocco .. you can bet he's heard some stories over the years.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

oh snap Ursus !

xlolx

Is that all I said about it? Still holds that they ain't the tops in the woofed my man. If you are on the bubble and last couple then you ain't got a case. I would have taken Ill. State though over EKU but that is beside the point I was making.

Good job finding that and spending the effort though as it makes me plenty happy. Good job.xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'll give you a touche' for that.

But I aint wrong about 2011 or the nonsense that has gone on with FCS selection committee. I would love to have a couple beers with DE Coach Rocco .. you can bet he's heard some stories over the years.

I've had some beers with a former selection committee head and discussed many of the topics we've went over and it is enlightening but not in the conspiratorial way you would guess it to be.

It is very easy to sit back and critique the work done but when you look at what our own site has come up with over the years it is usually very similar so....

But, as I pointed out in the other thread, the committee membership changes, the parameters change, and the focus of what is most important does as well. I wish they would tighten that up and have more consistency with that.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That's the thing

When I think you've gone too far think how far you've truly freaking gone.

Let that sink in.

This post is a thing of beauty. xlolx

[BisonFan02]

xlolx

Is that all I said about it? Still holds that they ain't the tops in the woofed my man. If you are on the bubble and last couple then you ain't got a case. I would have taken Ill. State though over EKU but that is beside the point I was making.

Good job finding that and spending the effort though as it makes me plenty happy. Good job.xthumbsupx

Ho ho, **** he got you good you ****er. :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Ho ho, **** he got you good you ****er. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc_LIR5ExIU

[BisonFan02]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc_LIR5ExIU

should i?

[Redbird 4th & short]

xlolx

Is that all I said about it? Still holds that they ain't the tops in the woofed my man. If you are on the bubble and last couple then you ain't got a case. I would have taken Ill. State though over EKU but that is beside the point I was making.

Good job finding that and spending the effort though as it makes me plenty happy. Good job.xthumbsupx

took me 30 seconds using search bar and a couple key words .. only had to scroll 1 page on the thread.

I don't even blame you for not remembering that you thought we got screwed at the time. I had the vested interest ... you did not. My team got screwed. I'm just not sure why you so strongly oppose this possibility 8 years later. Way to much smoke to ignore.

[clenz]

He isn’t opposed to the idea that you may have “deserved” a bid. He’s stated - and he’s correct - that it wasn’t the biggest miss of all time.


Go find a different tree to bark up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ursus arctos horribilis]

took me 30 seconds using search bar and a couple key words .. only had to scroll 1 page on the thread.

I don't even blame you for not remembering that you thought we got screwed at the time. I had the vested interest ... you did not. My team got screwed. I'm just not sure why you so strongly oppose this possibility 8 years later. Way to much smoke to ignore.

You seem to be mixing two different things together which I've tried to separate for you.

Your team could have gotten screwed somewhat but in the last few spots...it is a nothing type deal as you were really not deserving even if you were a bit more deserving in the opinion of some...including me.

I've gotten more information over the last few years that sets me more into this position including my own team being left out and EWU being left out...and many others. If you don't cement your own path then basically I go with the STFU and quit bitching type of thing.

What we were talking about on the other thread was the top of the "woofed" charts and ISU doesn't fall into that category even if I did think they were more deserving in 2011 than EKU, neither of them, along with Delaware, were what one would call deserving of being in.

Most of all you apparently took my response as some sort of shot at you. It was not that, I truly liked your work and thought it funny.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

He isn’t opposed to the idea that you may have “deserved” a bid. He’s stated - and he’s correct - that it wasn’t the biggest miss of all time.


Go find a different tree to bark up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, glad it could be seen. Seems like things have to be all or nothing at times but you nailed it.

I don't think any of the last 4 teams in are deserving in nearly any year anymore...they just got a gift and anyone else that did not should STFU with the whining.

Being the prettiest turd in the punch bowl is not worth advocacy.

[BisonFan02]

You seem to be mixing two different things together which I've tried to separate for you.

Your team could have gotten screwed somewhat but in the last few spots...it is a nothing type deal as you were really not deserving even if you were a bit more deserving in the opinion of some...including me.

I've gotten more information over the last few years that sets me more into this position including my own team being left out and EWU being left out...and many others. If you don't cement your own path then basically I go with the STFU and quit bitching type of thing.

What we were talking about on the other thread was the top of the "woofed" charts and ISU doesn't fall into that category even if I did think they were more deserving in 2011 than EKU, neither of them, along with Delaware, were what one would call deserving of being in.

Most of all you apparently took my response as some sort of shot at you. It was not that, I truly liked your work and thought it funny.

None of those teams beat the 2011 Bison anyway.....who cares. :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

None of those teams beat the 2011 Bison anyway.....who cares. :D

I know you are being a wiseass but you are dead f'n on with it.

With all the bitching every year about the playoffs and selections the tournament has ONE goal that it succeeds at every year.

It crowns a champion and in every year there is whining but I can never remember one team that got left out that could have challenged for that title.

[F'N Hawks]

I know you are being a wiseass but you are dead f'n on with it.

With all the bitching every year about the playoffs and selections the tournament has ONE goal that it succeeds at every year.

It crowns a champion and in every year there is whining but I can never remember one team that got left out that could have challenged for that title.

However, there are some teams that need that springboard to get a taste and thus grow their program. Then, take that next step further into the playoffs in the years after that. Just like SDSU and NDSU did.

[uni88]

However, there are some teams that need that springboard to get a taste and thus grow their program. Then, take that next step further into the playoffs in the years after that. Just like SDSU and NDSU did.And some teams take the pain and disappointment of not getting a bid into the weight room where they hit it hard so they can come back and win a Natty the next year ... :D

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[ursus arctos horribilis]

However, there are some teams that need that springboard to get a taste and thus grow their program. Then, take that next step further into the playoffs in the years after that. Just like SDSU and NDSU did.

True. But it's a lottery at that point and if you get tabbed then so be it. If you don't then another team gets that opportunity to build off of.

[BisonFan02]

I know you are being a wiseass but you are dead f'n on with it.

With all the bitching every year about the playoffs and selections the tournament has ONE goal that it succeeds at every year.

It crowns a champion and in every year there is whining but I can never remember one team that got left out that could have challenged for that title.

A wise ass with grains of truth.....1sd round fodder and maybe another home game for the last one in?

[Redbird 4th & short]

someone remind me where YSU was ranked in 2016 ... I believe around #14 ?? Or Loyola basketball in 2017 .. what, 50th or so ? Or Villanova in 1985 ? Or making barely making the cut on Friday at some golf tournament, then making a charge on Saturday and Sunday only to fall short. W are still talking about competitive sports .. right ??

I played sports thru college. I coached my kids in many sports. Doesn't everyone set goals to improve and want to win. Doesn't everyone want their shot in playoffs .. whether the top seed or not ? Then lay it all on the line to survive, advance, hold court as best they can. Normal healthy competitive human nature .. competitive sports ... right ??

I knew kids and parents from the 2011 team .. they were crushed getting snubbed like they did ... 14 vs 33 .. .MVFC vs OVC. It wouldn't be the first time someone did something unethical .. or do some of you really think this stuff doesn't ever happen ? Now that would be very naïve thinking.

[BisonFan02]

someone remind me where YSU was ranked in 2016 ... I believe around #14 ?? Or Loyola basketball in 2017 .. what, 50th or so ? Or Villanova in 1985 ? Or making barely making the cut on Friday at some golf tournament, then making a charge on Saturday and Sunday only to fall short. W are still talking about competitive sports .. right ??

I played sports thru college. I coached my kids in many sports. Doesn't everyone set goals to improve and want to win. Doesn't everyone want their shot in playoffs .. whether the top seed or not ? Then lay it all on the line to survive, advance, hold court as best they can. Normal healthy competitive human nature .. competitive sports ... right ??

I knew kids and parents from the 2011 team .. they were crushed getting snubbed like they did ... 14 vs 33 .. .MVFC vs OVC. It wouldn't be the first time someone did something unethical .. or do some of you really think this stuff doesn't ever happen ? Now that would be very naïve thinking.

http://gobison.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=1443

But I get it....no sports are immune to "last one out", but where do you draw the line?

[Redbird 4th & short]

He isn’t opposed to the idea that you may have “deserved” a bid. He’s stated - and he’s correct - that it wasn’t the biggest miss of all time.


Go find a different tree to bark up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I never said it was the biggest snub, though it is probably up there. The thread title was simply .. who got left out. IMO, based on wide variety of objective 3rd party data, I am 100% sure 2011 ISUr falls squarely into that category. This back and forth started with Ursus and a few others saying we weren't snubbed at all .. I just reminded people with threads and polls from back when it happened. Clearly all objective data confirms we got snubbed and EKU was the beneficiary .. all objective data .. not just my opinion.

[Bison56]

And some teams take the pain and disappointment of not getting a bid into the weight room where they hit it hard so they can come back and win a Natty the next year ... :D

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


I see what you did there.xlolx

[F'N Hawks]

I see what you did there.xlolx

You figured it out all on your own?

[Thumper 76]

You figured it out all on your own?

A UND fan not responding to someone mocking that on a forum would be like only hearing the first half of the O’Reilly’s theme song.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Redbird 4th & short]

http://gobison.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=1443

But I get it....no sports are immune to "last one out", but where do you draw the line?

I don't view 2011 ISUr snub as "last one out" scenario .. 4 teams behind us on GPI and Massey Composites made it over us .. EKU was just the worst by far .. and then there was the huge bid they put up. The other 3 were only 4 to 6 spots behind us .. EKU was 19 to 20 spots behind us.

Better example of "last one out" was 2017 with UNH getting in over Delaware, EWU, and Montana ... except for the controversy over UNH having a history of getting the nod every time with 7-4 records with UNH AD Scarano on the committee ... while many other 7-4 teams get left home. In case of Delaware, they had many common opponents .. and every objective ranking system had Delaware ahead of UNH. Same for EWU, but they didn't have common opponents .. so tht could be a "last one out" argument that could go either way .. except for fact that UNH always gets in at 7-4.

[F'N Hawks]

A UND fan not responding to someone mocking that on a forum would be like only hearing the first half of the O’Reilly’s theme song.


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Cause it's so witty and really funny. Gotta be acknowledged, fo sho. Every time.

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=Redbird 4th & short;2630156]I don't view 2011 ISUr snub as "last one out" scenario .. 4 teams behind us on GPI and Massey Composites made it over us .. EKU was just the worst by far .. and then there was the huge bid they put up. The other 3 were only 4 to 6 spots behind us .. EKU was 19 to 20 spots behind us.

Better example of "last one out" was 2017 with UNH getting in over Delaware, EWU, and Montana ... except for the controversy over UNH having a history of getting the nod every time with 7-4 records with UNH AD Scarano on the committee ... While many other 7-4 teams get left home. In case of Delaware, they had many common opponents .. and every objective ranking system had Delaware ahead of UNH. Same for EWU, but they didn't have common opponents .. so tht could be a "last one out" argument that could go either way .. except for fact that UNH always gets in at 7-4w.[/QUOTE

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27541&stc=1......AW MAN........JES' WHEN.....AH.....WAS STARTIN' TA....GET OVERAH DAT............xsighx.....AWK!

[KPSUL]

[QUOTE=Redbird 4th & short;2630156]I don't view 2011 ISUr snub as "last one out" scenario .. 4 teams behind us on GPI and Massey Composites made it over us .. EKU was just the worst by far .. and then there was the huge bid they put up. The other 3 were only 4 to 6 spots behind us .. EKU was 19 to 20 spots behind us.

Better example of "last one out" was 2017 with UNH getting in over Delaware, EWU, and Montana ... except for the controversy over UNH having a history of getting the nod every time with 7-4 records with UNH AD Scarano on the committee ... While many other 7-4 teams get left home. In case of Delaware, they had many common opponents .. and every objective ranking system had Delaware ahead of UNH. Same for EWU, but they didn't have common opponents .. so tht could be a "last one out" argument that could go either way .. except for fact that UNH always gets in at 7-4w.[/QUOTE

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27541&stc=1......AW MAN........JES' WHEN.....AH.....WAS STARTIN' TA....GET OVERAH DAT............xsighx.....AWK!

There were only 4 different threads and a couple thousand posts last November, it's time to discuss it all again now.

- - - Updated - - -


[QUOTE=Redbird 4th & short;2630156]I don't view 2011 ISUr snub as "last one out" scenario .. 4 teams behind us on GPI and Massey Composites made it over us .. EKU was just the worst by far .. and then there was the huge bid they put up. The other 3 were only 4 to 6 spots behind us .. EKU was 19 to 20 spots behind us.

Better example of "last one out" was 2017 with UNH getting in over Delaware, EWU, and Montana ... except for the controversy over UNH having a history of getting the nod every time with 7-4 records with UNH AD Scarano on the committee ... While many other 7-4 teams get left home. In case of Delaware, they had many common opponents .. and every objective ranking system had Delaware ahead of UNH. Same for EWU, but they didn't have common opponents .. so tht could be a "last one out" argument that could go either way .. except for fact that UNH always gets in at 7-4w.[/QUOTE

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27541&stc=1......AW MAN........JES' WHEN.....AH.....WAS STARTIN' TA....GET OVERAH DAT............xsighx.....AWK!

There were only 4 different threads and a couple thousand posts last November, it's time to discuss it all again now.

[MR. CHICKEN]

.........xbawlingx......BRAWK!


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?199215-Marty-Scarano-does-it-again-just-saying