Strongest Conference

[Vitojr130]

Morning AGS'ers.

This is probably going to turn into a spin off from a previous thread, but due to the fact that I am new here and do not want to dig through a ton of old threads, what conference do AGS posters believe is the strongest and why? I'm going to have to go with the Sagarin ratings on this one and say the MVFC is the strongest conference. Discuss.

[asumike83]

It looks to be between the CAA, SoCon and MVFC. Computer rankings don't mean a whole lot (to me at least). We will find out who the strongest is come playoff time.

[Vitojr130]

It looks to be between the CAA, SoCon and MVFC. Computer rankings don't mean a whole lot (to me at least). We will find out who the strongest is come playoff time.

Yeah, I figured this much. Based off of the little I have seen from the CAA, I would put them in third despite what the coaches poll shows. I think the MVFC is slightly ahead of the SoCon because the MVFC has 1 more team in the top 25 according to the coaches poll.

[bluehenbillk]

Until the MVFC beats somebody I'll have them below in no specific order - the CAA, SoCon & Big Sky.

[straightshooter]

If Sagarin changes each week based on who the team played, the SoCon will take a big jump this week with four SEC opponents.

[Professor Chaos]

Until the MVFC beats somebody I'll have them below in no specific order - the CAA, SoCon & Big Sky.
You mean until like some team that went 4-4 in the MVFC beats the Big Sky champs at home 42-17 in the playoffs?

[SonuvaHenx2]

I'd have to say that this year the MVFC is the strongest conference by far.
NDSU, UNI, ISUr, ISUb, and YSU all have cases for good rankings and playoff spots.
The simple fact that the 5th place team went to two top 5 teams in back-to-back weeks and almost beat both of them speaks to the strength of the conference this year.

The SoCon really only has three good teams this year (GaSo, App, Woffy), and one of those has to win this week to make it to 7 D-I wins.
The CAA can still get 5 teams in, but it'll be a stretch for JMU. I'm not convinced that the SoCon is stronger even in this weak year for the CAA.

[Bison06]

In past years you would have to say it is a toss-up between the CAA and the SoCon, but with the addition of NDSU to the MVFC it has boosted that conference to the point that as a conference it is as strong as the other two.

[Vitojr130]

You mean until like some team that went 4-4 in the MVFC beats the Big Sky champs at home 42-17 in the playoffs?

^This. Not to mention almost beating what turned out to be the National Champions (who went on to beat two CAA teams to claim the title) 1 game later at home...

[WileECoyote06]

If recent playoff success are the barometer by which teams are measured, then it's the CAA, followed by the SoCon, Big Sky and then MVFC.

If I'm not mistaken, the CAA has won 33 playoff games since 2006.

[SeattleGriz]

If recent playoff success are the barometer by which teams are measured, then it's the CAA, followed by the SoCon, Big Sky and then MVFC.

If I'm not mistaken, the CAA has won 33 playoff games since 2006.

Nevermind the fact it has been the Big Sky and CAA for the championship the last three years. Just because App won three in a row doesn't mean the conference as a whole was up. The SoCon lost it's spot at the top and is now just gaining some steam. I personally think the SoCon is still down, and the playoffs will show if I am right or wrong.

[WileECoyote06]

Nevermind the fact it has been the Big Sky and CAA for the championship the last three years. Just because App won three in a row doesn't mean the conference as a whole was up. The SoCon lost it's spot at the top and is now just gaining some steam. I personally think the SoCon is still down, and the playoffs will show if I am right or wrong.

I meant no disrespect, I personally think the Big Sky is #1 or #2. But besides using the national title game argument I couldn't fix the numbers to support that argument.

But then again, my numbers are also heavily influenced by the sheer # of CAA teams included in the playoffs every year. . xlolx

[UNIFanSince1983]

Since 2005 we are 4-2 against the CAA in the playoffs. I am not sure that it really means anything though.

I really don't think having a team make the championship means your conference was the strongest. I mean in 2003 Colgate went to the championship, so does that mean the Patriot League was the strongest conference?

Honestly, this year it is really a toss up between the Big Sky, CAA, MVFC, and the SoCon. I am not convinced the playoffs will even settle the matter. One team getting hot and making the championship or a deep run does not prove they played in the toughest conference.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

If we're talking Top to Bottom, I'd say the CAA is still the strongest because of the number of quality teams. The CAA best may not be as good as the Big Sky, SoCon, or MVC best, but if we did a round robin, I'd bet on the CAA to have more wins. NDSU has the makings to be another Montana where they're always in the conversation.

Sagarin always has the Big Sky and CAA SOS higher than everyone else to start the season. I don't really even like the SoCon, so it doesn't matter to me where it ranks. The beauty of FCS is that these issues are decided in the playoffs.

I posted the following in another thread:


The Top Tier:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

[bisonnation]

I think they are all good but it's tough to argue withe the Missouri Valley this year. And next year it's only going to get tougher with South Dakota coming on board.

I think NDSU, UNI, Illinois State, Indiana State, and Youngstown are capable of beating anyone. When those teams play it's always a close game. You know the conference is tough when your bottom feeders are good programs. Your bottom 4 teams are SDSU, SIU, WIU, and MSU. Southern Illinois is a perennial powerhouse. Western Illinois won a road playoff game last year. South Dakota State made the playoffs 2 years ago. Missouri State is having a tough year.

FBS wins? NDSU beat Minnesota. Indiana State smoked Western Kentucky. UNI should have beaten Iowa State.

My vote is for the Valley. Whether or not they have the top team remains to be seen.

[bisonnation]

If we're talking Top to Bottom, I'd say the CAA is still the strongest because of the number of quality teams. The CAA best may not be as good as the Big Sky, SoCon, or MVC best, but if we did a round robin, I'd bet on the CAA to have more wins. NDSU has the makings to be another Montana where they're always in the conversation.

Sagarin always has the Big Sky and CAA SOS higher than everyone else to start the season. I don't really even like the SoCon, so it doesn't matter to me where it ranks. The beauty of FCS is that these issues are decided in the playoffs.

I posted the following in another thread:


The Top Tier:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

That is very true...

[gotts]

and how did the MVFC do against the Patriot League in the latest playoffs?

The latest playoffs are 9 days away, pal.

I saw a rerun of M.A.S.H. the other day and as I listened to the theme song, I was reminded of you!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

and how did the MVFC do against the Patriot League in the latest playoffs?


I am reticent to get into another flame war with you but that is the dumbest argument possible. UNI lost to Lehigh last year, then got destroyed the next week by Delaware. Lehigh has proven it's worth but the Patriot just pain sucks, no two ways about it. You can't even say it's top heavy, it's one heavy. I wonder why you weren't on here screaming so much about Lehigh before last year? Oh yeah, that's right........

[Smitty]

If we're talking Top to Bottom, I'd say the CAA is still the strongest because of the number of quality teams. The CAA best may not be as good as the Big Sky, SoCon, or MVC best, but if we did a round robin, I'd bet on the CAA to have more wins. NDSU has the makings to be another Montana where they're always in the conversation.

Sagarin always has the Big Sky and CAA SOS higher than everyone else to start the season. I don't really even like the SoCon, so it doesn't matter to me where it ranks. The beauty of FCS is that these issues are decided in the playoffs.

I posted the following in another thread:


The Top Tier:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

Pretty much this. Anything else is just a homer statement...

[Gil Dobie]

and how did the MVFC do against the Patriot League in the latest playoffs?

Looking to see how Lafayette does in the rivalry game this year. That game should not be close according to what you have been saying on the messageboard about how bad NDSU is.

[UNIFanSince1983]

and how did the MVFC do against the Patriot League in the latest playoffs?

UNI lost to Lehigh. We were the only team in the Valley to play a Patriot League team in the playoffs last year.

Does that prove the Patriot was stronger than the Valley? I don't know. Turns out that was the point of my argument above. Just because one team beats another in the playoffs does not mean one conference is stronger than the other. It could mean that, but we really don't know and will never know who the strongest conference really is.

[Blue Eagle]

As I have already posted somewhere "WHO KNOWS"!!

With that being said I do think the SoCon has been the most competitive I can remember with at least 6 teams being ranked at some point.

Being a "conference homer" I do think either Ga. Southern, ASU or Wofford will win the National Championship!!

GO EAGLES
"JUST ONE MORE TIME"

[mainejeff]

Top 2: Big Sky and MVC
Top 4: SoCon
Top to Bottom: CAA

[SeattleGriz]

I meant no disrespect, I personally think the Big Sky is #1 or #2. But besides using the national title game argument I couldn't fix the numbers to support that argument.

But then again, my numbers are also heavily influenced by the sheer # of CAA teams included in the playoffs every year. . xlolx

None taken brother. I just like to throw that out there because that's all I got!

[asumike83]

Top 2: Big Sky and MVC
Top 4: SoCon
Top to Bottom: CAA

On point. All 4 are very good conferences.

[bisonnation]

UNI lost to Lehigh. We were the only team in the Valley to play a Patriot League team in the playoffs last year.

Does that prove the Patriot was stronger than the Valley? I don't know. Turns out that was the point of my argument above. Just because one team beats another in the playoffs does not mean one conference is stronger than the other. It could mean that, but we really don't know and will never know who the strongest conference really is.

The Patriot League is basically Leheigh, who is really good, and a bunch of teams that are not on the same level. It's not really even a fair comparison with the disparity in scholarships. Not many common opponents between the Patriot and Missouri Valley except for 1.

NDSU beat Lafayette 42-6

[Sycamore51]

YSU and INST have to win this weekend to claim to be the best. If no then the valley will only have 3 possible playoff teams. If we have 4 or 5 teams in the playoffs then I would say MVFC. It would be hard to say that though if both INST and YSU get beat on Saturday.

[gotts]

The Patriot League is basically Leheigh, who is really good, and a bunch of teams that are not on the same level. It's not really even a fair comparison with the disparity in scholarships. Not many common opponents between the Patriot and Missouri Valley except for 1.

NDSU beat Lafayette 42-6


Dust off the ol' CSI!!!!




If Lehigh doesn't score at least 42 points this weekend and gives up more than 6, then they are clearly inferior to NDSU!!!

[SpeedkingATL]

Top 2: Big Sky and MVC
Top 4: SoCon
Top to Bottom: CAA

That makes sense and just from personal observation I expect both the SoCon and MVC are a little deeper this year too. SoCon still has WCU which is inferior to any team in the other "power conferences" to bring down the SoCon average. Next year CAA will have GaSt at bottom unless they improve greatly.

[asucrutch23]

SoCon still has WCU which is inferior to any team in the other "power conferences"

Could WCU beat NoCo?? Man that would be a doozy!

[SpeedkingATL]

[QUOTE=asucrutch23;1725436]Could WCU beat NoCo?? Man that would be a doozy![/QUO

That would be painful to watch.

[Smitty]

That makes sense and just from personal observation I expect both the SoCon and MVC are a little deeper this year too. SoCon still has WCU which is inferior to any team in the other "power conferences" to bring down the SoCon average. Next year CAA will have GaSt at bottom unless they improve greatly.

Meh every conference has the door mat team.

[mainejeff]

That makes sense and just from personal observation I expect both the SoCon and MVC are a little deeper this year too. SoCon still has WCU which is inferior to any team in the other "power conferences" to bring down the SoCon average. Next year CAA will have GaSt at bottom unless they improve greatly.

Yeah, but URI leaves after next season......so that is a wash and GaSt has a higher ceiling than URI.

[straightshooter]

Not sure how conferences did out with their out of conference games so far, but excluding BCS teams played, the SoCon has lost one OOC contest, (Furman -Coastal Carolina) all season. SoCon teams probably won't win their BCS games, but when you consider that they are playing the following teams: Georgia Tech, Auburn, Florida, Alabama, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Clemson, Nebraska and Virginia Tech, it's easy to see why they would have trouble there. Let any other team in any FCS conference play any of those teams and the result would be the same. Bottom line is simple - SoCon teams beat up on each other this season because there is more parity that ever. Four and five loss teams may appear to not be very good, but their record out of conference indicates otherwise. The fact that GSU got out of there with only one conference loss is pretty impressive.

[straightshooter]

Yeah, but URI leaves after next season......so that is a wash and GaSt has a higher ceiling than URI.

URI would beat the tar out of GA State.

[Vitojr130]

How many of them played a DII team too?

^This.

[mainejeff]

URI would beat the tar out of GA State.

Yeah, but what is you point?.......they can't beat anyone else. So we replace bottom feeder URI with bottom feeder GaSt. And I guarantee you that GaSt has more success in the next 20 years than URI had in the last 20!

[Twentysix]

GSU - Tusculum
Wofford - Virgina-Wise
Samford - Stillman
Elon - Concord
WCU - Mars Hill

Now thats some conference strength, No idea how anyone can argue against it.

MSU - Minot State
UM - Western Oregon
PSU - Williamette and Southern Oregon
NAU - Fort Lewis
Idaho st - Western St
UNC - Lindenwood

lulululululz these are your top 2?

[UNIFanSince1983]

I deleted that post because there is no use arguing. Everyone seems to be voting for their own conference. They all have valid points too.

Obviously, the MVFC isn't the best top to bottom. There are 3 bottom feeders this year. We do have 5 of the better teams, but tough to say. The SoCon has solid teams all around. The CAA is obviously tough this year if Richmond and Villanova are at the bottom. The Big Sky is about the same as they are every year. They have some great teams at the top, but the middle might be weaker than the middle of the other 3.

Conference strength is just really tough to quantify.

[smcwildcat]

CAA > everyone else just saying....our worst teams would be at the top in most conferences

[Twentysix]

CAA > everyone else just saying....our worst teams would be at the top in most conferences

xrotatehx

http://iambillal.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/cup-of-lol.gif

[Twentysix]

MVFC is the only top 4 conference that played only DI games.

The CAA did the 2nd best at only 2 SubDI OOC games.

The Bigsky played 7 SubDI OOC games.

The Socon played 5 SubDI OOC games.

[Twentysix]

Wrong yet again, pal.

The latest playoffs were in 2010

Again, how did the MVFC do in the latest playoffs against the patriot league?

I believe the MVFC won 3 games in the last playoffs, the Patriot league won 1 game.

Keep trying champ. If you wanna talk UNI vs Lehigh thats a different story but UNI sucks anyways.

[gotts]

Wrong yet again, pal.

The latest playoffs were in 2010

Again, how did the MVFC do in the latest playoffs against the patriot league?

Wrong yet again?

Are you implying I've been wrong multiple times before?

I'm going to refrain to talking to you until your team is eliminated from the playoffs. I'd extend the same invitation to you, but I know there's no way you can keep quiet :)

[UNIFanSince1983]

Again

How did the MVFC do in the latest playoffs against the Patriot league?

the CCA, for instance, did very well

I already responded, but apparently you only pick and choose to read certain things huh?

The Patriot League was 1-0 vs the MVFC does that mean it was a better conference? No all it means is Lehigh was better on Thanksgiving weekend in Cedar Falls than UNI was.

[Eagle22]

Yeah, but URI leaves after next season......so that is a wash and GaSt has a higher ceiling than URI.

The basement of a skyscraper is still the basement.

[fc97]

the mvfc played 5 non-scholarship schools and only 2 ooc games vs the southern and big sky with more division ii but also one more out of conf game than the mvfc

d-ii scholarship > fcs non-scholarship

[Professor Chaos]

Again

How did the MVFC do in the latest playoffs against the Patriot league?

the CCA, for instance, did very well
If the California College of the Arts (http://www.cca.edu/) did so well against the Patiot League in last year's playoffs the NCAA needs to re-evaluate whether or not the PL is deserving of an auto bid. Their football team is terrible!

[blueballs]

MVFC is the only top 4 conference that played only DI games.

The CAA did the 2nd best at only 2 SubDI OOC games.

The Bigsky played 7 SubDI OOC games.

The Socon played 5 SubDI OOC games.

And the SoCon played Nebraska, VA Tech, Alabama, South Carolina, Clemson, Florida, Auburn, GA Tech, & Vanderbilt... and Vandy is the only team on that list that hasn't spent multiple weeks in the FBS top 25 at some point during the season, so what's the point?

[MTfan4life]

the mvfc played 5 non-scholarship schools and only 2 ooc games vs the southern and big sky with more division ii but also one more out of conf game than the mvfc

d-ii scholarship > fcs non-scholarship

Tusculum > Lafayette? I don't know about that.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Saying the Patriot is good because of Lehigh is like saying the Southland is good because of SHSU. That is a silly argument only one (surprise!) person is willing to make.

[UNIFanSince1983]

And the SoCon played Nebraska, VA Tech, Alabama, South Carolina, Clemson, Florida, Auburn, GA Tech, & Vanderbilt... and Vandy is the only team on that list that hasn't spent multiple weeks in the FBS top 25 at some point during the season, so what's the point?

The point is no one had a tough OOC so bringing that up on who has the tougher conference is still irrelevant. The Valley played Michigan State, Penn State, Oregon, Arkansas, and Illinois who were also all ranked at one point.

[StorminASU]

The point is no one had a tough OOC so bringing that up on who has the tougher conference is still irrelevant. The Valley played Michigan State, Penn State, Oregon, Arkansas, and Illinois who were also all ranked at one point.

I'll def. concede on Oregon, partially on Arkansas, but really...you bring up Michigan State, Penn State and Illinois to compare to mostly SEC teams with some top ACC teams sprinkled in? I don't understand how the Socon can't be the toughest conference this year.

[ysubigred]

the mvfc played 5 non-scholarship schools and only 2 ooc games vs the southern and big sky with more division ii but also one more out of conf game than the mvfc

d-ii scholarship > fcs non-scholarship

Not when it comes to qualifying for the playoffs LOL!!

[Bison06]

I'll def. concede on Oregon, partially on Arkansas, but really...you bring up Michigan State, Penn State and Illinois to compare to mostly SEC teams with some top ACC teams sprinkled in? I don't understand how the Socon can't be the toughest conference this year.

Typical response from someone in your part of the country.

SEC is god and all other FBS teams are just playing for 2nd place.

Saying the Socon played SEC teams and the MVFC played Big Ten teams is irrelevant. A loss is a loss, whether you lose by 1 or 100. Those are still the big boys with all the advantages that go along with being an FBS school. (Budget, facilities, scholarship advantage.)

It would be like arguing that your OOC schedule was tougher because your team played the patriots and mine played the vikings. Either way you are supposed to lose, so what's the difference.

[BisonBacker]

ok thanks

but again,

How did the MVFC do against the Patriot League in the last playoffs?

let me help you:

the MVFC LOST to the Patriot League in the last playoffs

This is 2011
I hope this helps.

[UNIFanSince1983]

ok thanks

but again,

How did the MVFC do against the Patriot League in the last playoffs?

let me help you:

the MVFC LOST to the Patriot League in the last playoffs

Did you see my post about this matter? If not go back and read it.

[StorminASU]

Typical response from someone in your part of the country.

SEC is god and all other FBS teams are just playing for 2nd place.

Saying the Socon played SEC teams and the MVFC played Big Ten teams is irrelevant. A loss is a loss, whether you lose by 1 or 100. Those are still the big boys with all the advantages that go along with being an FBS school. (Budget, facilities, scholarship advantage.)

It would be like arguing that your OOC schedule was tougher because your team played the patriots and mine played the vikings. Either way you are supposed to lose, so what's the difference.

I don't believe they're God, far from it, but I do believe it's a heck of a league considering the run of championships they've compiled recently. You're right though, we're suppose to lose, but at least we can face the best while doing it.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I'll def. concede on Oregon, partially on Arkansas, but really...you bring up Michigan State, Penn State and Illinois to compare to mostly SEC teams with some top ACC teams sprinkled in? I don't understand how the Socon can't be the toughest conference this year.

The SoCon MAY be the toughest conference this year, but it is not because you guys played SEC teams...

[StorminASU]

The SoCon MAY be the toughest conference this year, but it is not because you guys played SEC teams...

Where did I say it was because of that? I would love to see it.

[344Johnson]

now

the reason that it was pointed out that the MVFC shouldn't be compared to the other strong conferences such as the CAA is because the MVFC champion lost at home to a Patriot League team in the latest playoffs

no more

no less

So in '06 or whenever Boise beat Oklahoma in the fiesta bowl game, should the Big 12 have been considered a bad conference?

[UNIFanSince1983]

The post I quoted sounded like that to me. After re-reading you probably mean the last sentence to be a separate thought from the first sentence then?

[344Johnson]

true, this is 2011

and if you weren't sucking on your toe, you would realize that the conversations have been about how well the conferences have done in the playoffs

and since you can't discuss about how well a conference has done in a playoff that hasn't occurred, then the talk has to be about past completed playoff games

ok, go back to sucking on the other toe now

For claiming to have an Ivy League education...you sure have a lot of free time on your hands and say a lot of dumb things. shouldn't you be prosecuting someone or proposing bills to congress or doing something worthwhile?

[darell1976]

If we're talking Top to Bottom, I'd say the CAA is still the strongest because of the number of quality teams. The CAA best may not be as good as the Big Sky, SoCon, or MVC best, but if we did a round robin, I'd bet on the CAA to have more wins. NDSU has the makings to be another Montana where they're always in the conversation.

Sagarin always has the Big Sky and CAA SOS higher than everyone else to start the season. I don't really even like the SoCon, so it doesn't matter to me where it ranks. The beauty of FCS is that these issues are decided in the playoffs.

I posted the following in another thread:


The Top Tier:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

Just curious...where does the Great West fit in?? The 2nd tier or the rest? I would think our conference is better than The Irrelevant.

[gotts]

Just curious...where does the Great West fit in?? The 2nd tier or the rest?

Probably between, but a bit of a moot point after this weekend, isn't it?

[FargoBison]

the mvfc played 5 non-scholarship schools and only 2 ooc games vs the southern and big sky with more division ii but also one more out of conf game than the mvfc

d-ii scholarship > fcs non-scholarship

I hope you aren't including Patriot League teams in regards to that statement because if you are you couldn't be more wrong.

[darell1976]

Probably between, but a bit of a moot point after this weekend, isn't it?

I know, but just curious.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Honestly, it seems to me that all of the FCS is a bit down this year.

I personally don't think that Georgia Southern is all that special this year and they are my team. Don't get me wrong, we have taken care of business and done enough to get the wins, but it hasn't been pretty half of the time. I think the current team would get taken to the woodshed by any of the 6 teams that won NC's. Even though we won the SoCon, I don't think we are the best team in the league this year. On paper we are but I truthfully think that App. is better than us this year. I think we are lucky to be a top 5 team right now.

I don't think App. is really anything that special this year either. Same with Wofford and UTC. There was a lot of hype before, and at the start of, the season about how these 4 top SoCon teams were supposed to be just incredible this year and none have really done anything to raise my eyebrows in a positive way overall.

The SoCon is way down this year. So is the CAA. So is the rest of FCS.

I looked at the top 25 the other day and thought "Man, this year the playoffs might be a little more boring than usual". I hate saying it, but it appears that is how the FCS is stacking up in 2011. For the first time, I'm actually more excited about the BCS games than I am about the FCS playoffs. I know.. go ahead and blast me. I don't care. It's the truth. I'm not writing off the FCS or the FCS playoffs altogether, I'm just saying it's a pretty down year.

Now, with all that said I am going to be loyal to my team and hope that they make it all the way to Frisco and walk out with #7. I'd be absolutely ecstatic.


Also, to whoever said the CAA might get 5 teams in this year- lay the pipe down. I'd be surprised if they get 4 in. I'd also be surprised if any of those 4 made the semis.

[344Johnson]

Is there any particular reason why you again fail to discuss football on this thread and website, in general, instead of the personal attacks that you continue to make?

Is there any reason you randomly hate schools from the Midwest located in Fargo, North Dakota? It is because no one cares about the Patriot League and you just decided, "Hey NDSU is pretty good, they must be douches?"

I don't think your an Ivy League grad. Princeton can do better than you. So can Lehigh. When Lehigh gets knocked out of the playoffs...normally, no one outside of your school probably thinks anything of it. But when they get beat out this year....you do know AGS is going to completely tear you apart.

[eaglewraith]

Honestly, it seems to me that all of the FCS is a bit down this year.

I personally don't think that Georgia Southern is all that special this year and they are my team. Don't get me wrong, we have taken care of business and done enough to get the wins, but it hasn't been pretty half of the time. I think the current team would get taken to the woodshed by any of the 6 teams that won NC's. Even though we won the SoCon, I don't think we are the best team in the league this year. On paper we are but I truthfully think that App. is better than us this year. I think we are lucky to be a top 5 team right now.

I don't think App. is really anything that special this year either. Same with Wofford and UTC. There was a lot of hype before, and at the start of, the season about how these 4 top SoCon teams were supposed to be just incredible this year and none have really done anything to raise my eyebrows in a positive way overall.

The SoCon is way down this year. So is the CAA. So is the rest of FCS.

I looked at the top 25 the other day and thought "Man, this year the playoffs might be a little more boring than usual". I hate saying it, but it appears that is how the FCS is stacking up in 2011. For the first time, I'm actually more excited about the BCS games than I am about the FCS playoffs. I know.. go ahead and blast me. I don't care. It's the truth. I'm not writing off the FCS or the FCS playoffs altogether, I'm just saying it's a pretty down year.

Now, with all that said I am going to be loyal to my team and hope that they make it all the way to Frisco and walk out with #7. I'd be absolutely ecstatic.


Also, to whoever said the CAA might get 5 teams in this year- lay the pipe down. I'd be surprised if they get 4 in. I'd also be surprised if any of those 4 made the semis.

Preface: After the Bama game is over, I will have watched every single down of Georgia Southern football this season. That's why I feel confident about what I'm about to say.

You may think we're down....but I don't think we've played our best game yet. I have yet to see a peak. We've started an upswing at the right time. If I was an opposing team facing us in the playoffs I'd be scared.

And yes, if we have a rematch with App....we'll smoke them.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Just curious...where does the Great West fit in?? The 2nd tier or the rest? I would think our conference is better than The Irrelevant.

I purposefully left the Great West out, but I think the schools in that conference would easily fall in the middle or better of any of the Top Tier conferences with potential to rise to the top.

[asumike83]

Preface: After the Bama game is over, I will have watched every single down of Georgia Southern football this season. That's why I feel confident about what I'm about to say.

You may think we're down....but I don't think we've played our best game yet. I have yet to see a peak. We've started an upswing at the right time. If I was an opposing team facing us in the playoffs I'd be scared.

And yes, if we have a rematch with App....we'll smoke them.

We will see about that. You could definitely be right but I'm just not sure that one good game sandwiched in between two stinkers and a beating at Alabama is necessarily going to be the start of an upswing. Wofford was a great win and I'm sure the team is not short on confidence, but carrying it over into a playoff game 3 weeks later may be tough. Really bad scheduling of the game this week. ASU did the same genius move last year.

[SeattleGriz]

I purposefully left the Great West out, but I think the schools in that conference would easily fall in the middle or better of any of the Top Tier conferences with potential to rise to the top.

Be interesting next year when the Big Sky adds Cal Poly, UC Davis, Southern Utah and UND to the conference.

[frozennorth]

I'll def. concede on Oregon, partially on Arkansas, but really...you bring up Michigan State, Penn State and Illinois to compare to mostly SEC teams with some top ACC teams sprinkled in? I don't understand how the Socon can't be the toughest conference this year.
So because the socon got stomped by slightly better teams the the mvfc (even that might be debatable, lolacc), the socon is better?

[frozennorth]

not only am I a Princeton alumnus, but I have a graduate degree from a school that would beat NDSU 50-0 on any given Saturday...

so again, please tell us why you claim that the only reason that you will not drop out of lowly NDSU (with a 77% acceptance rate and a 50% drop out rate) is because it has a good football team?

sad, very sad

I didn't know boise state offered graduate degrees.

[Fear the Bird]

Yeah, I figured this much. Based off of the little I have seen from the CAA, I would put them in third despite what the coaches poll shows. I think the MVFC is slightly ahead of the SoCon because the MVFC has 1 more team in the top 25 according to the coaches poll.

Sounds like a good argument to me hey i live in the midwest and havent seen those teams so they must be the weakest...

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Again

How did the MVFC do in the latest playoffs against the Patriot league?

the CAA, for instance, did very well



You repeat the same crap in every thread with NDSU or MV.....

You are a troll.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

actually, Stanford University does

and a Stanford/NDSU football game would yield a 50-0 result

after all, didn't NDSU just lose at home to an unranked team?



Just took a peak at Princeton's schedule this year:

Lehigh: 22-34 L
Bucknell: 9-34 L
Columbia: 24-21 W
Hampton: 23-28 L
Brown: 0-34 L
Harvard: 39-56 L
Cornell: 7-24 L
Penn: 9-37
Yale: 24-33
Dartmouth: ?

Tough year....no wonder you cheer for Lehigh.....

[344Johnson]

not only am I a Princeton alumnus, but I have a graduate degree from a school that would beat NDSU 50-0 on any given Saturday...

so again, please tell us why you claim that the only reason that you will not drop out of lowly NDSU (with a 77% acceptance rate and a 50% drop out rate) is because it has a good football team?

sad, very sad

Or maybe I am staying in school here to get a degree from a top 100 research institution and not have to spend $40,000+/year. What is your degree in TheFan?

[darell1976]

Be interesting next year when the Big Sky adds Cal Poly, UC Davis, Southern Utah and UND to the conference.

I think the addition will be great for the whole conference. Its hard to measure the teams in the GWFC since we have only 4 conference games and 7 games to fill mostly with non DI teams and mulitple FBS teams. At least now we will be on par with the rest of the league with 8 conference games most likely 1 FBS game and 2 OOC (FCS) teams.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Preface: After the Bama game is over, I will have watched every single down of Georgia Southern football this season. That's why I feel confident about what I'm about to say.

You may think we're down....but I don't think we've played our best game yet. I have yet to see a peak. We've started an upswing at the right time. If I was an opposing team facing us in the playoffs I'd be scared.

And yes, if we have a rematch with App....we'll smoke them.

I hope you're right. I haven't seen every snap but I've seen 5 total games. The only one that I felt we played anywhere near a complete game was Wofford.

We have been horribly inconsistent all year. I think the scariest thing I saw all season was the Citadel game. We should've hung 35+ on them. Sure, the defense has played lights out for the most part. It's not them that i'm concerned about in the playoffs. It's our offense. And frankly, there is no excuse for that. On paper we are loaded on offense. Some games prove that the potential is there (i.e. Furman). But some games it just seems like we can't move the ball (i.e. First half of Samford game, parts of the UTC game where we just looked lost, App., and the Citadel). It all comes down to consistent execution and I just haven't really seen that altogether.

I hope that you're right. Thankfully even though I think we are down, it appears that everyone else is down too. I wouldn't want to have to come to Paulson and deal with our crowd and our defense (and possibility that our offense shows up).

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Oh, sorry about that last post being off topic. I thought we were talking about FOOTBALL here.

[344Johnson]

ha!

So says the guy that claimed that if it wasn't for a good football team he would have dropped out.

By the way, stop claiming that your quasi-Community College is a top 100 research institution - because it isn't

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/article_168edd2a-45e6-11df-a068-001cc4c002e0.html

your move. I would not drop out even if the football team sucked, you did not catch the sarcasm. NDSU went like 3-8 the year before I came to school.

Strongest Conferences top to bottom
CAA, SoCon, MVFC. Arguments can be made for any of them. I'm not going to get into it because any point you guys throw out there, I could counter it, and vice-versa. Thank God for playoffs.

[GABison]

ha!

So says the guy that claimed that if it wasn't for a good football team he would have dropped out.

By the way, stop claiming that your quasi-Community College is a top 100 research institution - because it isn't

We are 108th, but in the same "very high research activity" category as Princeton. I don't even see Lehigh on the list.

http://www.ndsu.edu/news/view/article/10590/

[MTfan4life]

ha!

So says the guy that claimed that if it wasn't for a good football team he would have dropped out.

By the way, stop claiming that your quasi-Community College is a top 100 research institution - because it isn't

I don't think you understand what a college is. There's hundreds of quality schools across the country. I don't believe you went to Princeton or Stanford or CCA, or even some community college. The only proof we have is your lack of debate skills. I'm guessing some alternative high school at best, although those kids can argue pretty well, so maybe not even that.

The CAA and SoCon have the most strength in depth until someone proves otherwise. The CAA teams rarely lose their first game. Because of the lack of in between power conference play, the playoffs are the strongest measurement. The computers will hold some quality, but not as true as the playoffs. I guess we'll see come playoff time.

[penguinpower]

Don't forget that the CAA has had the highest probability of getting to the championship game over the last 5 years or so because they always get 4-5 teams in. It is a pure numbers game when you consider that so many evenly matched teams are in the top 16. Any team can win on any given Saturday and the fact that 4-5 teams are in the mix improves the probability.

[MTfan4life]

Probability? So the fact that the CAA has been .625 the last five years and the MVFC has been .500 in the playoffs in that time is biased on probability?

[ValleyChamp]

Probability? So the fact that the CAA has been .625 the last five years and the MVFC has been .500 in the playoffs in that time is biased on probability?

He was talking about the championship. Having more teams in every year, most certainly gives that conference a better shot of getting to the title game. Winning % has nothing to do with it.

[Fear the Bird]

He was talking about the championship. Having more teams in every year, most certainly gives that conference a better shot of getting to the title game. Winning % has nothing to do with it.

Copout

Like having UNI and SIU both seeded doesnt dramatically improve your "probability"

[MTfan4life]

He was talking about the championship. Having more teams in every year, most certainly gives that conference a better shot of getting to the title game. Winning % has nothing to do with it.

Fine, with the championship then. In those five years the Big Sky has had three championship game appearances and the MVFC has had none. The MVFC has had one more team in the playoffs. Winning % evens the field. If they had six teams but none of them made it, that would show a poor winning percentage. If another conference only had two teams and one made it to the championship, that's a good winning percentage. I don't get how winning percentage would have nothing to do with getting a team to WIN three games in the playoffs.

[penguinpower]

Fine, with the championship then. In those five years the Big Sky has had three championship game appearances and the MVFC has had none. The MVFC has had one more team in the playoffs. Winning % evens the field. If they had six teams but none of them made it, that would show a poor winning percentage. If another conference only had two teams and one made it to the championship, that's a good winning percentage. I don't get how winning percentage would have nothing to do with getting a team to WIN three games in the playoffs.

Winning percentage has something to do with it, but you are not recognizing the fact that the 16 teams in the playoffs are more evenly matched, perhaps not equal, but evenly matched, which in turn reduces the value of winning %.

[MTfan4life]

Winning percentage has something to do with it, but you are not recognizing the fact that the 16 teams in the playoffs are more evenly matched, perhaps not equal, but evenly matched, which in turn reduces the value of winning %.

Winning matters. You're reducing the value of winning. Sure they have better probability of getting there, but you still need the quality of teams to get there. The quality teams win. There's a reason teams like Georgia Southern, Montana, Appalachian State, Youngstown State are known when it comes to FCS. It's because they win in the playoffs. Sure some conferences have good probability, but it's all about winning in the end.

[Professor Chaos]

Calm down gentlemen, trying to insinuate that NDSU is comparable on an academic level to Princeton is like trying to insinuate that Lehigh is comparable on a football level to NDSU.

[Blue Eagle]

[QUOTE=Blueandwhitefightfight;1725551]Honestly, it seems to me that all of the FCS is a bit down this year.

I personally don't think that Georgia Southern is all that special.../QUOTE]

What games have you been attending this year? Certainly not the 8 games I attended!

Except for the second half of the Chattanooga game the Eagles were not even challenged until the ASU game. The eighth game of the season.

Appalachian is a very good team that played the Eagles very tough especially their 5 defensive starters from Georgia who played lights out. With that being said if our offense who did not play very well - ASU had a lot to do with that - had scored when we were insde the 10 yard line 4 times I believe the Eagles win that game. Not to mention the touchdown pass that even the ASU announcers said was a bad call.

Yes, The Citadel game was not pretty but give credit to The Citadel.

Then the Wofford game. Do you really need for someone to explain why that was a great game for the Eagles?

Coach Monken and his assistants, Brent Russell, JJ Wilcox, Jaybo Shaw, Laron Scott, Adrian Mora, Johnatan Bryant, William Maxwell, Brett Moore, Robert Brown, Derek Heyden I could name a lot more players but if that does not tell you why this is a special team then there is nothing I can say that will convince you.

i have been a season ticket holder since 1984, and this is one of my favorite Ga. Southern teams!

GO EAGLES
'JUST ONE MORE TIME"

[MSUBobcat]

Winning percentage has something to do with it, but you are not recognizing the fact that the 16 teams in the playoffs are more evenly matched, perhaps not equal, but evenly matched, which in turn reduces the value of winning %.

I'm not sure I understand this quote. If the teams are "evenly matched", why is the value of winning % reduced? A high winning percent against inferior competition reduces the value, but wouldn't a higher win % in the playoffs equate to some strength? In the case of the BSC, maybe not top to bottom, but as someone else mentioned the top 2 are usually pretty good and have been in the last 3 championships.

BTW, penguinpower, there are 20 teams in the playoffs now. Surprising you forgot this fact, as the expansion may possibly allow the Penguins into the postseason. xcoolx

[penguinpower]

Winning matters. You're reducing the value of winning. Sure they have better probability of getting there, but you still need the quality of teams to get there. The quality teams win. There's a reason teams like Georgia Southern, Montana, Appalachian State, Youngstown State are known when it comes to FCS. It's because they win in the playoffs. Sure some conferences have good probability, but it's all about winning in the end.

I agree that winning does matter, but when it comes to at large teams opinion weighs heavily on who is allowed in by the committee. Sometimes close games can go wither way. If last years EWU team played Last years NDSU team twice, who would win that game? I believe that it went to OT. Is to a 50/50 chance? I would have to say that they were very closely matched teams. My argument is that if you have more teams representing your conference, the probability of your conference team advancing to the title game increases. If the probability was 50% that your other conference team is in the other bracket and all teams are very close in ability, they would have a clsoe to 50% chance of beating EWU in the next game played.

[SeattleGriz]

I've stayed out of this conversation for awhile, because I believe we won't really know until the playoffs who had the toughest conference, but would just like to say this about the Big Sky.

The Big Sky currently has two cellar dweller teams in Idaho State and Northern Colorado. Idaho State has a new coach and should come back to respectability in the next couple of years. Outside of those two teams, we have:

Montana State - current #1 in nation
Montana - current #7 in nation and in it's second year of a new offensive scheme and head coach
Eastern Washington - Defending FCS champions who have been absolutely destroyed with season ending injuries. If they had half the injuries, they would be back in the playoffs. It's not like they just started sucking.
Portland State - Pretty decent team that has only lost to Montana and MSU. If they had not scheduled two DII teams,they most likely would be in the playoffs.
Sacramento State - A 4-6 team that beat PAC12 Oregon State and Montana. Many expected them to make the playoffs, but for some reason, they have been Jekyll and Hyde
Northern Arizona - Good middle of the pack team that has the ability to beat any team in the Big Sky.
Weber State - Scheduled two FBS teams and almost beat Wyoming. Same issue - Jekyll and Hyde.

[penguinpower]

I'm not sure I understand this quote. If the teams are "evenly matched", why is the value of winning % reduced? A high winning percent against inferior competition reduces the value, but wouldn't a higher win % in the playoffs equate to some strength? In the case of the BSC, maybe not top to bottom, but as someone else mentioned the top 2 are usually pretty good and have been in the last 3 championships.

BTW, penguinpower, there are 20 teams in the playoffs now. Surprising you forgot this fact, as the expansion may possibly allow the Penguins into the postseason. xcoolx

I realize that there are 20 teams, just too old school sometimes when thinking about the scenarios.

When I say evenly matched what I mean is that if you took each team in the top 20 and had each team play 10 games in a row there will be games where the best team does not always win and vice versa. If you took the top 10 teams and had them play the bottom 10 the winning % would be much higher. So when you have the best teams playing each other (playoffs) the probability of winning (winning %) will be lower. It is very unusual to see statistics like App State, Ga Southern, and YSU in the playoffs, those are statistical outliers IMOP. There is special cause for that type of winning % it is not normal statistically.

[frozennorth]

I'm not sure I understand this quote. If the teams are "evenly matched", why is the value of winning % reduced? A high winning percent against inferior competition reduces the value, but wouldn't a higher win % in the playoffs equate to some strength? In the case of the BSC, maybe not top to bottom, but as someone else mentioned the top 2 are usually pretty good and have been in the last 3 championships.

BTW, penguinpower, there are 20 teams in the playoffs now. Surprising you forgot this fact, as the expansion may possibly allow the Penguins into the postseason. xcoolx
if a conference is top heavy and has fewer margin teams, they should have a better record in the playoffs than a conference with 4 margin teams, even though the later case may have more overall depth.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Why don't you put in Stanford's schedule while you are at it?

Stanford, a team that would easily beat NDSU 50-0 in football any day of the week...


Like I said, YOU are a troll!!

Why not Florida, USC, Wisconsin.....apples to oranges. Your Princeton avatar....you probably don't attend that school btw.....indicates that you are a fan of that school.

Ya, tough year for your team. I'm sure Lehigh will also make a quick exit in the playoffs.

yawn......

[Cocky]

CAA > everyone else just saying....our worst teams would be at the top in most conferences

Our worst team did beat one of the MVC best, so I guess OVC is on top?

[GOODY26]

If we're talking Top to Bottom, I'd say the CAA is still the strongest because of the number of quality teams. The CAA best may not be as good as the Big Sky, SoCon, or MVC best, but if we did a round robin, I'd bet on the CAA to have more wins. NDSU has the makings to be another Montana where they're always in the conversation.

Sagarin always has the Big Sky and CAA SOS higher than everyone else to start the season. I don't really even like the SoCon, so it doesn't matter to me where it ranks. The beauty of FCS is that these issues are decided in the playoffs.

I posted the following in another thread:


The Top Tier:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference


This looks to be right.xnodx

[caribbeanhen]

CAA has been by far and away the best for several years, now this year It would take some slick maneuvering to continue defending that claim

lets see what the playoffs tell us but Big Fluffy is looking pretty good right now

[SF State Gaters]

Big Sky Conference FTW!!

[SF State Gaters]

Objective defence of subjective FTW- 2012, the BSC will get So Utah (win over UNLV [meh, okay, but they beat Hawai'i who beat... colorado? okay, fine], UC Davis, and Cal Poly... three good adds for an already top-shelf conference.

Plus, they might wind up with Idaho one of these days, so score, amirite?

[darell1976]

Objective defence of subjective FTW- 2012, the BSC will get So Utah (win over UNLV [meh, okay, but they beat Hawai'i who beat... colorado? okay, fine], UC Davis, and Cal Poly... three good adds for an already top-shelf conference.

Plus, they might wind up with Idaho one of these days, so score, amirite?

Don't forget us!!

[Redbird Ray]

I don't know which conference is the best, but I know that the top 5 in the Valley have what it takes to beat just about any other team in the country.

It also seems like in the earlier FCS/FBS games this year, that CAA and SoCon schools got obliterated by MAC and ACC schools, while upper-half MVFC teams were at least somewhat competitive against Big Ten/Big 12 competition. Granted, a lot can change from week 1 to week 11/12.

One thing I do know is that there is no freaking way Lehigh is the 6th best team in the country. If Lehigh had played an MVFC schedule this year, they would have been lucky to reach 6 wins.

[Professor Chaos]

I don't know which conference is the best, but I know that the top 5 in the Valley have what it takes to beat just about any other team in the country.

It also seems like in the earlier FCS/FBS games this year, that CAA and SoCon schools got obliterated by MAC and ACC schools, while upper-half MVFC teams were at least somewhat competitive against Big Ten/Big 12 competition. Granted, a lot can change from week 1 to week 11/12.

One thing I do know is that there is no freaking way Lehigh is the 6th best team in the country. If Lehigh had played an MVFC schedule this year, they would have been lucky to reach 6 wins.
This thread is about to get ugly in a hurry.... again.

[darell1976]

This thread is about to get ugly in a hurry.... again.

Wait..wait....xpopcornx commence smacking!!

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

[QUOTE=Blueandwhitefightfight;1725551]Honestly, it seems to me that all of the FCS is a bit down this year.

I personally don't think that Georgia Southern is all that special.../QUOTE]

What games have you been attending this year? Certainly not the 8 games I attended!

Except for the second half of the Chattanooga game the Eagles were not even challenged until the ASU game. The eighth game of the season.

Appalachian is a very good team that played the Eagles very tough especially their 5 defensive starters from Georgia who played lights out. With that being said if our offense who did not play very well - ASU had a lot to do with that - had scored when we were insde the 10 yard line 4 times I believe the Eagles win that game. Not to mention the touchdown pass that even the ASU announcers said was a bad call.

Yes, The Citadel game was not pretty but give credit to The Citadel.

Then the Wofford game. Do you really need for someone to explain why that was a great game for the Eagles?

Coach Monken and his assistants, Brent Russell, JJ Wilcox, Jaybo Shaw, Laron Scott, Adrian Mora, Johnatan Bryant, William Maxwell, Brett Moore, Robert Brown, Derek Heyden I could name a lot more players but if that does not tell you why this is a special team then there is nothing I can say that will convince you.

i have been a season ticket holder since 1984, and this is one of my favorite Ga. Southern teams!

GO EAGLES
'JUST ONE MORE TIME"

Well, thanks for cutting out select quotes. I suppose if you are only going to quote me on half of what I was saying I shouldn't bother putting up an argument. Anyhow, this is what I mean:

Samford game- 4 turnovers. We struggled offensively in the first half majorly.

UTC- All but the 2nd quarter, we couldn't move the ball. Now, the 2nd quarter was damn magical; 3 TDs in one quarter is never bad. The rest of the game we struggled majorly.

App. St.- 201 total yards, 11 first downs. 4 for 13 on 3rd down. 0 for 4 on 4th down. And we controlled the clock w/ 31:54. A very poor performance.

The Citadel- I'm glad I was Homecoming drunk for that. It was ugly. And no, I will not give a team that is 2-5 in the SoCon credit. They suck this year. We also had 3 turnovers and 9 penalties. We let them hand 239 rushing yards on our defense. Unacceptable. I refuse to put any spin on it whatsoever.

---- Blue Eagle, you can stop reading here -----


I will say that in the Furman game and Wofford game, we came out and took care of business in a manner that far exceeded my expectations.



That is my entire point. We are so very inconsistent. It's hard to tell which team you're going to see on the field in a given Saturday.

[MR. CHICKEN]

16249.......ACCORDIN' TA KEELER...AN' EVERAH SPORTS EXPERT...ON DIS ORB......AWK/CAA.bestonplanet.UH-HUH!

[Engineer86]

If we're talking Top to Bottom, I'd say the CAA is still the strongest because of the number of quality teams. The CAA best may not be as good as the Big Sky, SoCon, or MVC best, but if we did a round robin, I'd bet on the CAA to have more wins. NDSU has the makings to be another Montana where they're always in the conversation.

Sagarin always has the Big Sky and CAA SOS higher than everyone else to start the season. I don't really even like the SoCon, so it doesn't matter to me where it ranks. The beauty of FCS is that these issues are decided in the playoffs.

I posted the following in another thread:


The Top Tier:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

Sorry, but the Patriot League has far more playoff wins than those you lump them in with. OVC and Southland are better why? You must not be basing that on playoffs.

[bisonnation]

Fine, with the championship then. In those five years the Big Sky has had three championship game appearances and the MVFC has had none. The MVFC has had one more team in the playoffs. Winning % evens the field. If they had six teams but none of them made it, that would show a poor winning percentage. If another conference only had two teams and one made it to the championship, that's a good winning percentage. I don't get how winning percentage would have nothing to do with getting a team to WIN three games in the playoffs.

5 years ago the MVFC didn't include NDSU and SDSU. Both teams have made the playoffs and helped make the conference more competitive. Indiana State was irrelevant up until 2 years ago. They are now committed to their program and its tough to argue with the results.

The MVFC is completely different today. That's why we have 5 playoff teams and historicaly good programs like Southern Illinois and Western Illinois now sit at the bottom. Put SIU in another conference and I bet they do well. They competed with NDSU and UNI

Common opponents? NDSU EWU and MSU. Not a lot separates the programs. Except for NDSUs playoff win 44-17 and Ewu OT win

[boonegoon]

I don't know which conference is the best, but I know that the top 5 in the Valley have what it takes to beat just about any other team in the country.

It also seems like in the earlier FCS/FBS games this year, that CAA and SoCon schools got obliterated by MAC and ACC schools, while upper-half MVFC teams were at least somewhat competitive against Big Ten/Big 12 competition. Granted, a lot can change from week 1 to week 11/12.

One thing I do know is that there is no freaking way Lehigh is the 6th best team in the country. If Lehigh had played an MVFC schedule this year, they would have been lucky to reach 6 wins.

To be fair, Wofford was not obliterated by Clemson. It was 35-27. Clemson is ranked #7 in the country, too high but still.
Team Stat Comparison


Wofford
Clemson
1st Downs 16 20
Total Yards 399 476
Passing 127 261
Rushing 272 215
Penalties 6-30 3-44
3rd Down Conversions 6-16 7-15
4th Down Conversions 2-3 1-3
Turnovers 1 1
Possession 33:27 26:33

[Engineer86]

Probability? So the fact that the CAA has been .625 the last five years and the MVFC has been .500 in the playoffs in that time is biased on probability?

What? I'll give you the number of wins, but last I checked when two teams line up there is 50/50 chance to win. Sorry but a higher winning percentage does mean you won a larger portion of games played. If the CAA played 10, they win 6 and if the MVFC plays 10, they win 5. The bias is in the number of wins not the percentage. Now back to the football.

[Vitojr130]

sorry, but NDSU, the #5 ranked team in the FCS, is not 50 to 100 times better than Lehigh, the #6 ranked team in the FCS, in football - which is what Princeton University is to NDSU in academics.

^I had to laugh at this. Lehigh has played only 1 team worth even remotely close to its' weight in salt... and then lost. If NDSU played in the Patriot league, every game would be something like 40-6. EVERY game. NDSU already beat a team that appears to be fairly average for the Patriot League by a crushing 42-6. The only time Lafayette scored was when Bohl put our 2nd string defense in. Unless Lehigh is light years (and I literally mean light years) ahead of the rest of your conference,
NDSU = 5(Lehigh)

[Vitojr130]

I don't know which conference is the best, but I know that the top 5 in the Valley have what it takes to beat just about any other team in the country.

It also seems like in the earlier FCS/FBS games this year, that CAA and SoCon schools got obliterated by MAC and ACC schools, while upper-half MVFC teams were at least somewhat competitive against Big Ten/Big 12 competition. Granted, a lot can change from week 1 to week 11/12.

One thing I do know is that there is no freaking way Lehigh is the 6th best team in the country. If Lehigh had played an MVFC schedule this year, they would have been lucky to reach 6 wins.

^bump. OP +1. One team that stands their ground against an FBS school (Wofford vs. Clemson was used as an example) does not make a conference strong. It makes that one team look good. Also, Lehigh would definitely only get 5 or 6 wins at most in the MVFC.

[Engineer86]

^bump. OP +1. One team that stands their ground against an FBS school (Wofford vs. Clemson was used as an example) does not make a conference strong. It makes that one team look good. Also, Lehigh would definitely only get 5 or 6 wins at most in the MVFC.

That's about right, any more than 6 would be considered an upset. This would put them in the 3rd or 4th place. In my homer opinion, they are a bit better than YSU, ISUr and ISUb, but at this point I, and no one else have anything to go on to justify an opinion.

[Dallas Demon]

Sorry, but the Patriot League has far more playoff wins than those you lump them in with. OVC and Southland are better why? You must not be basing that on playoffs.

The Southland is drastically better than the Patriot or OVC in the playoffs. In fact, outside of the Colgate run in 2003, what has the Patriot done? Lehigh's one win last year? For the OVC, I believe you have to go back to the early 80s for wins in the playoffs.

[Engineer86]

The Southland is drastically better than the Patriot or OVC in the playoffs. In fact, outside of the Colgate run in 2003, what has the Patriot done? Lehigh's one win last year? For the OVC, I believe you have to go back to the early 80s for wins in the playoffs.

Please enlighten me on all of the Southland conference playoff wins in the last 10-15 years. Lehigh has 4 alone. Colgate = McNeese only a year apart. I see Texas St with two wins. What is there to support "drastically" a better word might be dilusional.

[Fear the Bird]

SHSU has had a great season and will be seeded but you are crazy if you don't think past history doesn't come in to play and the "vaunted" Southland conference has done what?

2010: SFA gets absolutely blown out of their home stadium by Nova after receiving a bye
2009: SFA gets paired up with EQU and wins at home before being absolutely boatraced by Montana
2008: Texas State smoked by Montana
2007: McNeese State rewarded with the #2 overall seed and gets comlpetely embarrassed in the first round by EWU
2003: McNeese State rewarded for a tremendous season in the Southland with the top overall seed loses in the 1st round to Northern Arizona?!

[Dallas Demon]

Please enlighten me on all of the Southland conference playoff wins in the last 10-15 years. Lehigh has 4 alone. Colgate = McNeese only a year apart. I see Texas St with two wins. What is there to support "drastically" a better word might be dilusional.

Since the Patriot was formed in 1990, the only playoff success has been Lehigh (4 times to the quarterfinals), and Fordham (1 time to the quarterfinals) and Colgate (1 time to the finals). That's a total of 8 playoff wins.

The Southland had tremendous success in the 80s including a championship, but for the sake of this discussion let's look at 1990 onwards to match the Patriot.

McNeese St. (1992, 1993, 1994 quarterfinals, 1995, 1997, 2002 finals, total of 12 wins)
Northwestern St. (1998 semifinals, total of 2 wins)
Stephen F. Austin (1995 semifinals, 2009 quarterfinals, total of 3 wins)
Louisiana-Monroe (1992 quarterfinals, total of 1 win)
Sam Houston St. (2004 semifinals, 2001 quarterfinals, total of 3 wins)
Texas St. (2005 semifinals, total of 2 wins)
Troy (1996 semifinals, 1999 quarterfinals, total of 3 wins)

Since 1990: Southland 26 playoff wins, Patriot 8 playoff wins

I think "drastically" is fitting here. Now if you want me to include research for the 80s where the Southland was either in the finals (including a championship) or semis quite frequently, I'll likely change the word to something more than "drastically".

[Tubby Raymond]

Top 2: Big Sky and MVC
Top 4: SoCon
Top to Bottom: CAA
Douchebag got banned from the UMAINE website, amazing you could be so obnoxious as to alienate your own. Congrats

[caribbeanhen]

Calm down gentlemen, trying to insinuate that NDSU is comparable on an academic level to Princeton is like trying to insinuate that Lehigh is comparable on a football level to NDSU.

are you sure your not a Northern Iowa fan because you sure sound just like the ones I remember before Lehigh went out and smoked em in the Barndome xlolx

[Fear the Bird]

Since the Patriot was formed in 1990, the only playoff success has been Lehigh (4 times to the quarterfinals), and Fordham (1 time to the quarterfinals) and Colgate (1 time to the finals). That's a total of 8 playoff wins.

The Southland had tremendous success in the 80s including a championship, but for the sake of this discussion let's look at 1990 onwards to match the Patriot.

McNeese St. (1992, 1993, 1994 quarterfinals, 1995, 1997, 2002 finals, total of 12 wins)
Northwestern St. (1998 semifinals, total of 2 wins)
Stephen F. Austin (1995 semifinals, 2009 quarterfinals, total of 3 wins)
Louisiana-Monroe (1992 quarterfinals, total of 1 win)
Sam Houston St. (2004 semifinals, 2001 quarterfinals, total of 3 wins)
Texas St. (2005 semifinals, total of 2 wins)
Troy (1996 semifinals, 1999 quarterfinals, total of 3 wins)

Since 1990: Southland 26 playoff wins, Patriot 8 playoff wins

I think "drastically" is fitting here. Now if you want me to include research for the 80s where the Southland was either in the finals (including a championship) or semis quite frequently, I'll likely change the word to something more than "drastically".

80s and 90s well played how about doing ANYTHING in the last 6 years besides always getting "upset" in first round

[caribbeanhen]

CAA has been by far and away the best for several years, now this year It would take some slick maneuvering to continue defending that claim

lets see what the playoffs tell us but Big Fluffy is looking pretty good right now

Big Fluffy might have to change name of conference Tonto

[Longhorn]

Also, to whoever said the CAA might get 5 teams in this year- lay the pipe down. I'd be surprised if they get 4 in. I'd also be surprised if any of those 4 made the semis.

Well, thanks for playing. xsmileyclapx 5 CAA teams were selected, and to date have posted 3 playoff wins and 4 losses thru yesterday (2 of the losses coming on the road by close scores). Oh, and GSU (after surviving a big scare against a game ODU squad) gets to face Maine in the Semis after the Bears cleaned ASU's clock. Isn't ASU the same SoCon team that beat GSU earlier this year? xnodx

[bojeta]

Big Sky.

[darell1976]

When was the last time the Big Sky had 3 or more teams in the playoffs?

[bojeta]

When was the last time the Big Sky had 3 or more teams in the playoffs?

Considering the now current Big Sky, in 2008 Montana, Weber and Cal Poly were all in. I think Montana State was in there as well, but I'd have to check.

[darell1976]

Considering the now current Big Sky, in 2008 Montana, Weber and Cal Poly were all in. I think Montana State was in there as well, but I'd have to check.

So a conference can have 3-4 teams at once. Thats good to know.

[ValleyChamp]

Considering the now current Big Sky, in 2008 Montana, Weber and Cal Poly were all in. I think Montana State was in there as well, but I'd have to check.

So you are going to claim Cal Poly's playoff berth from several years ago as the Big Sky's? lol

[UNIFanSince1983]

So you are going to claim Cal Poly's playoff berth from several years ago as the Big Sky's? lol

Yeah I guess that means we can claim all of Youngstown's National Championships as Valley champions even if they weren't in the Valley when they won them.

[bojeta]

So you are going to claim Cal Poly's playoff berth from several years ago as the Big Sky's? lol

No. Said nothing of the sort. What I am saying is that the NEW Big Sky does include Cal Poly. This addition DOES add to the strength of an already strong conference. Is that simple enough for you to understand. I can break it down further if needed.

[bojeta]

So a conference can have 3-4 teams at once. Thats good to know.

Two things: 1. I wasn't suggesting that Cal Poly was a part of the Big Sky in 2008. 2. I said "I'd have to check" to see if Montana State was in. I'll do that now.

I just checked and, NO... Montana State was not in the playoffs in 2008

[darell1976]

Two things: 1. I wasn't suggesting that Cal Poly was a part of the Big Sky in 2008. 2. I said "I'd have to check" to see if Montana State was in. I'll do that now.

It is possible. Montana could have been picked over NDSU if they had 7 DI wins last year.

[LakesBison]

MVFC kicks the BIG FLUFFY's sissy *** any day of the week, NDSU proved that last year in montana state.

[darell1976]

MVFC kicks the BIG FLUFFY's sissy *** any day of the week, NDSU proved that last year in montana state.

And Eastern Washington proved that last year against NDSU.xlolx

[Cat79]

80s and 90s well played how about doing ANYTHING in the last 6 years besides always getting "upset" in first round

Texas State was #4 in 2005. We had lost to UNI in the semi-finals after OT by 3. I would say we were competitive. That team had to defeat Georgia Southern and Cal Poly to get to the semi-finals. App State did go on to defeat UNI in the National Championship. If I am not mistaken Cal Poly had defeated Montana the week before to get to play Texas State.

[Houndawg]

I think that the MVC has a strong argument for being the strongest and deepest conference this year, and my belief is supported as follows by the fact that they only placed two teams in the playoffs: on the final week of the season the MVC had five strong playoff candidates, but the depth of the conference is such that on that final week, with nothing to play for but pride, 3-7 SIU went to Terre Haute and knocked ISU out of the playoffs at the same time that 1-9 MSU was at YSU's vaunted Ice Castle knocking the Penguins out of the playoffs, both to the undoubted relief of the selection committee who otherwise would have had to listen to a ****load of east coast whining. That same 4-7 SIU team, that finished in seventh place, physically handled NDSU in conference play, losing 9-3 on a tipped pass on the final play of the backup QB's first start. The difference between seventh place SIU and co-champ UNI was a clip that brought back a TD in a 17-10 game. When your conference's seventh place team loses by 6,7,8 and 12 to Top 20 teams, your conference is strong.xnodx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think that the MVC has a strong argument for being the strongest and deepest conference this year, and my belief is supported as follows by the fact that they only placed two teams in the playoffs: on the final week of the season the MVC had five strong playoff candidates, but the depth of the conference is such that on that final week, with nothing to play for but pride, 3-7 SIU went to Terre Haute and knocked ISU out of the playoffs at the same time that 1-9 MSU was at YSU's vaunted Ice Castle knocking the Penguins out of the playoffs, both to the undoubted relief of the selection committee who otherwise would have had to listen to a ****load of east coast whining. That same 4-7 SIU team, that finished in seventh place, physically handled NDSU in conference play, losing 9-3 on a tipped pass on the final play of the backup QB's first start. The difference between seventh place SIU and co-champ UNI was a clip that brought back a TD in a 17-10 game. When your conference's seventh place team loses by 6,7,8 and 12 to Top 20 teams, your conference is strong.xnodx


Bull**it they did.

210-297 is not a getting "physically handled". I watched that game it was not anything like that. NDSU created 3 INTs....and the last time I checked, TOs are part of the game. Our defense played pretty well.

[No_Skill]

I think that the MVC has a strong argument for being the strongest and deepest conference this year, and my belief is supported as follows by the fact that they only placed two teams in the playoffs: on the final week of the season the MVC had five strong playoff candidates, but the depth of the conference is such that on that final week, with nothing to play for but pride, 3-7 SIU went to Terre Haute and knocked ISU out of the playoffs at the same time that 1-9 MSU was at YSU's vaunted Ice Castle knocking the Penguins out of the playoffs, both to the undoubted relief of the selection committee who otherwise would have had to listen to a ****load of east coast whining. That same 4-7 SIU team, that finished in seventh place, physically handled NDSU in conference play, losing 9-3 on a tipped pass on the final play of the backup QB's first start. The difference between seventh place SIU and co-champ UNI was a clip that brought back a TD in a 17-10 game. When your conference's seventh place team loses by 6,7,8 and 12 to Top 20 teams, your conference is strong.xnodx

To be honest, I'd be more concerned if we had to face Illinois St. this coming weekend rather than Lehigh.

That's not meant as a slight to Lehigh, it's just hard to beat a team twice in one year, especially if you are familliar with each other.

[fargocyclone]

Bull**it they did.

210-297 is not a getting "physically handled". I watched that game it was not anything like that. NDSU created 3 INTs....and the last time I checked, TOs are part of the game. Our defense played pretty well.

The biggest part of the SIU-NDSU game this year was SIU's domination of the field position battle. That's how they controlled NDSU's offense. The game's tough when you're starting every drive from within the 5 yd line.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The biggest part of the SIU-NDSU game this year was SIU's domination of the field position battle. That's how they controlled NDSU's offense. The game's tough when you're starting every drive from within the 5 yd line.


Good point....should have pointed that out....

[Houndawg]

Good point....should have pointed that out....

It is a good point, and the Bison defense played well, but it is also true that it was the backup QB's first start and that that was huge in a 9-3 game that went to the final play.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

It is a good point, and the Bison defense played well, but it is also true that it was the backup QB's first start and that that was huge in a 9-3 game that went to the final play.


Did you miss my post #170?

[Houndawg]

Bull**it they did.

210-297 is not a getting "physically handled". I watched that game it was not anything like that. NDSU created 3 INTs....and the last time I checked, TOs are part of the game. Our defense played pretty well.

Lol...thought I'd flush out Lakes with that ...... guess he ain't hungry.... I was at that game too, and your o line got whipped most of the time, 60 yards rushing, 1st first down with 5 minutes left in the third, our two leading tacklers were the NT and a NAIA xfer DE. I just don't get this myth that NDSU is more physical than the rest of the league, it simply isn't true.

[Houndawg]

The biggest part of the SIU-NDSU game this year was SIU's domination of the field position battle. That's how they controlled NDSU's offense. The game's tough when you're starting every drive from within the 5 yd line.

True, and this also supports my contention that the MVC is the deepest conference this year.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

NDSU is a physical team in a physical conference. SIU will be good next year.

If you want to "flush" lakes out just mention UND or respond to darell1976....

[LehighU11]

If Lehigh wins this weekend, there very well could be more Patriot League teams remaining than the MVC and CAA/SoCon. xrolleyesx

[Squealofthepig]

If Lehigh wins this weekend, there very well could be more Patriot League teams remaining than the MVC and CAA/SoCon. xrolleyesx

To be fair, that IS a pretty big if. I think it will be interesting to see how NDSU prepares for Lum and crew, and if they decide to let Lehigh have the run and just queue off their bread-and-butter passing game.

[Professor Chaos]

Until the MVFC beats somebody I'll have them below in no specific order - the CAA, SoCon & Big Sky.
Check, check, and check.

Where are we at now?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Check, check, and check.

Where are we at now?

To be fair. NDSU beat somebody, UNI got their asses handed to them.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

To be fair. NDSU beat somebody, UNI got their asses handed to them.

UNI didn't play too well in Missoula but that game would have been a lot closer if it was in CF.

This year the MV-CAA-SoCon were the best 3 conferences in FCS.

[ngineer]

Historically, I have to go with the CAA in terms of strength of conference from top to bottom--a real 'anygivensaturday' league. After that the SoCon followed by MVFC. However, this past year, one certainly can make a good case for the MVFC. But for sustained strength over the years, the CAA consistently beats the heck out of each other with few breathers.

[Apphole]

The MVFC seems a bit polarized to take the #1 spot. Without NDSU, they're out of the running and without NDSU and UNI, they're terrible.

[Twentysix]

The MVFC seems a bit polarized to take the #1 spot. Without NDSU, they're out of the running and without NDSU and UNI, they're terrible.

I dare say YSU and ISUr are pretty damn good, and SDSU is usually pretty good too.

And WIU is usually a playoff team once every 4 years. (SIU was good)

Teams that suck: Furman, Citadel, Chattanooga, Elon, Samford, Western Carolina, Wofford, App without armanti.

Honestly without GSU you guys are a bunch of failures and first round busts.

[cbarrier90]

Teams that suck: Furman, Citadel, Chattanooga, Elon, Samford, Western Carolina, Wofford, App without armanti.

Honestly without GSU you guys are a bunch of failures and first round busts.

xlolx Thanks, man. Needed a good laugh this morning...

[Cocky]

1) Big Sky
2) MVC
3) Southland
4) Socon
5) CAA
6) Patriot
7) OVC
8) Big South
9) all others.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

1) Big Sky



Speaking of ***-handings.

[Apphole]

I dare say YSU and ISUr are pretty damn good, and SDSU is usually pretty good too.

And WIU is usually a playoff team once every 4 years. (SIU was good)

Teams that suck: Furman, Citadel, Chattanooga, Elon, Samford, Western Carolina, Wofford, App without armanti.

Honestly without GSU you guys are a bunch of failures and first round busts.

He's been huffing airplane glue out of a sandwich bag, then taking a big rip of that gasoline to get a DOUBLE SUPER BUZZ!!!

[TheBisonState]

Full GPI Detail:

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/stats/writer/GPI/2012finalgpi.html

Conference Ranking:

Rank, League, Total Average

1. Missouri Valley Football Conference (24.11)

2. Great West Conference (29.26)

3. Southern Conference (29.78)

4. Colonial Athletic Association (30.35)

5. Big Sky Conference (36.41)

6. Southland Conference (45.34)

7. Patriot League (47.68)

8. Ohio Valley Conference (53.99)

9. Ivy League (58.38)

10. Independents (59.00)

11. Big South Conference (61.04)

12. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (68.90)

13. Northeast Conference (70.27)

14. Pioneer Football League (76.39)

15. Southwestern Athletic Conference (79.56)

[bojeta]

Won't presume to know which conference will be the toughest in 2012. MVFC, CAA, SOCON and the BIG SKY will be plenty tough for sure. There will be strong teams in the other conferences as well. What I'm most curious about is how the changes to the Big Sky will effect their computer rankings. I know part of the ranking is based on strength of schedule which is partly why the Great West was ranked so high. Each team in the conference scheduled two FBS opponents and strong FCS opponents (yes, there were some DII teams by necessity). Now that the GW teams are in the Big Sky, most will only schedule one FBS team, but far fewer DII teams. One thing for sure, the Big Sky just go bigger and that auto-bid got tougher to claim.

[BisonFan02]

Won't presume to know which conference will be the toughest in 2012. MVFC, CAA, SOCON and the BIG SKY will be plenty tough for sure. There will be strong teams in the other conferences as well. What I'm most curious about is how the changes to the Big Sky will effect their computer rankings. I know part of the ranking is based on strength of schedule which is partly why the Great West was ranked so high. Each team in the conference scheduled two FBS opponents and strong FCS opponents (yes, there were some DII teams by necessity). Now that the GW teams are in the Big Sky, most will only schedule one FBS team, but far fewer DII teams. One thing for sure, the Big Sky just go bigger and that auto-bid got tougher to claim.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that DII games do not matter/count when it comes to your GPI. However, DI OOC cupcakes do.

[Twentysix]

He's been huffing airplane glue out of a sandwich bag, then taking a big rip of that gasoline to get a DOUBLE SUPER BUZZ!!!

Haha, your just jelly that your league cant win a playoff game outside GSU.

[Apphole]

Haha, your just jelly that your league cant win a playoff game outside GSU.

I remember MY first playoff appearance....